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Topic: Wonder who this solominer is? 88.6.216.9 - page 18. (Read 60490 times)

donator
Activity: 532
Merit: 501
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If the protocol would be changed so that a fee is mandatory or there is a minimum fee, what would be a good value?
At the moment a bitcoin is just a few euro or dollar, so minimum of 0.01 BTC sounds good. But if much more people are going to use it and the value of BTC is 1000 dollar, the minimum fee would be 10 dollar? A bit much if you want to buy one bread.
On the other hand, what would be a good percentage to pay for a transaction? 0.1% of the transaction value would be acceptable for something like a bread, but a bit much if you want to buy your house with BTC.
Protocol change is not needed, anyone can configure fee amount in their clients according to current BTC rate.
hero member
Activity: 1596
Merit: 502
If the protocol would be changed so that a fee is mandatory or there is a minimum fee, what would be a good value?
At the moment a bitcoin is just a few euro or dollar, so minimum of 0.01 BTC sounds good. But if much more people are going to use it and the value of BTC is 1000 dollar, the minimum fee would be 10 dollar? A bit much if you want to buy one bread.
On the other hand, what would be a good percentage to pay for a transaction? 0.1% of the transaction value would be acceptable for something like a bread, but a bit much if you want to buy your house with BTC.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
  • appeared out of nowhere months ago and has grown (likely because Bitcoin mining is profitable)
  • has 20% of the hashing power and deepbit has double that
  • is hostile I like jumping to conclusions and am scared of shadows.

FYPFY

There is no saying he appeared months ago and "grew".  There have been 1 TX blocks for months or longer, its impossible to say if its the same miner or not, but the 1+TH appeared 2 weeks ago and pretty damn sudden. See chart I made earlier.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
  • appeared out of nowhere months ago and has grown (likely because Bitcoin mining is profitable)
  • has 20% of the hashing power and deepbit has double that
  • is hostile I like jumping to conclusions and am scared of shadows.

FYPFY
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
  • appeared out of nowhere
  • has 20% of the hashing power
  • is hostile

do the math...

Doesn't give a fuck about the extra 0.3% in transaction fees / it isn't worth for him because of the structure of his operation. Not necessarily means he's hostile.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
  • appeared out of nowhere
  • has 20% of the hashing power
  • is hostile

do the math...
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Unless the fees increase dramatically(or the block rewards is halved a couple of times), this would hold true.

Luckily both of those are solvable problems.  Block rewards will (eventually) be a tiny fraction of current value.  Fees will need to rise.

Personally I would make a larger minimum fee change to the protocol.  Note free transactions would still be possible but 1 satoshi fee wouldn't be valid. 

Then if say 50% of miners said they won't include free transactions then people would have a choice.  Send it free and wait 20 minutes or send it with a small (but above protocol enforced minimum) and wait 10 minutes. If the minimum fee (remember free is still possible) was 0.01 BTC then a block with 200 paying transactions would be worth 2 BTC.  When block reward drops to 25 BTC you are looking at an 8% loss (vs 0.3% now) by not including tx fees.

There is the economic incentive to build more complex software and include paying transactions.

Currently there is absolutely no economic reason to include transactions.  None.  The sub fractional pennies it is worth doesn't even come close to the work, software, bugs, glitches, additional long polls, etc.  Most miners just include tx to be "nice" and provide "free support" to the network they want to see flourish.  As the network grows that kind of model will become more antiquated. 

Note: this could also be accomplished without a protocol change by a cartel of miners with enough combined hashing power to affect transaction times.  The issue there is cheating (just like in OPEC).  If you draw the line at 0.01 and there are enough 0.001 to 0.0008 BTC tx there is an incentive to "cheat".  Still it could be done. 



You can already set your threshold to whatever you want. If a few big pools do it, then the effect you describe would be achieved. When a couple noobs fail to get their transactions through in reasonable time they will blame bitcoin, though.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Unless the fees increase dramatically(or the block rewards is halved a couple of times), this would hold true.

Luckily both of those are solvable problems.  Block rewards will (eventually) be a tiny fraction of current value.  Fees will need to rise.

Personally I would make a larger minimum fee change to the protocol.  Note free transactions would still be possible but 1 satoshi fee wouldn't be valid. 

Then if say 50% of miners said they won't include free transactions then people would have a choice.  Send it free and wait 20 minutes or send it with a small (but above protocol enforced minimum) and wait 10 minutes. If the minimum fee (remember free is still possible) was 0.01 BTC then a block with 200 paying transactions would be worth 2 BTC.  When block reward drops to 25 BTC you are looking at an 8% loss (vs 0.3% now) by not including tx fees.

There is the economic incentive to build more complex software and include paying transactions.

Currently there is absolutely no economic reason to include transactions.  None.  The sub fractional pennies it is worth doesn't even come close to the work, software, bugs, glitches, additional long polls, etc.  Most miners just include tx to be "nice" and provide "free support" to the network they want to see flourish.  As the network grows that kind of model will become more antiquated. 

Note: this could also be accomplished without a protocol change by a cartel of miners with enough combined hashing power to affect transaction times.  The issue there is cheating (just like in OPEC).  If you draw the line at 0.01 and there are enough 0.001 to 0.0008 BTC tx there is an incentive to "cheat".  Still it could be done. 

donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
The point is not that he is mining anonymously, but that he is almost certainly stealing computing resources on a massive scale

That is your justification/excuse for "intervention" but in reality, for bitcoin it doesn't matter one bit where do his resources come from and they could perfectly be legit and the problem for bitcoin would be the same.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1227
Away on an extended break
weather its a botnet or not it really does not matter

the big problem here (for Bitcoin) is the fact that they are not accepting any transactions in their blocks. It does not really matter if its a zombie botnet or a group of former KGB members with a ASIC farm humming in the basement of the Kremlin.

We need to put pressure on these folks any way we can, at least until the Bitcoin developers come up with a either a way to enforce transactions (not sure if this is even possible) or come up with some way to get rogue miners like this to want to accept them. Its obvious they care nothing about the Bitcoin network but they certainly care about making money and thats where we need to hit them.

To me this is really simple. Make it worth while for miners to accept your transactions. If you pay a higher transaction fee more mining power will play nice and compete to pull in your transaction.

Have a look at the last 10 blocks. None of them have total fee that gets close to 0.1 BTC. Compare that to the 50 BTC block reward.

If I for some reason had access to a huge set of idle computers and wanted them to mine for me I'd have to develop/maintain/update software that effectively turns it into a distributed system. My software would be easier to develop/manage (and more stealthy) if I didn't have to push pending transactions around. With the current fees it is simply not worth the extra hassle.

In other words: If I had 10% of the total mining power, what would be my incentive to pull transactions into my block? Nothing. Don't give me that "I'll do it for the greater good" crap, this is not how the world works. The other 90% make sure that my coins can be spent and keep their value.

Unless the fees increase dramatically(or the block rewards is halved a couple of times), this would hold true.
Jan
legendary
Activity: 1043
Merit: 1002
weather its a botnet or not it really does not matter

the big problem here (for Bitcoin) is the fact that they are not accepting any transactions in their blocks. It does not really matter if its a zombie botnet or a group of former KGB members with a ASIC farm humming in the basement of the Kremlin.

We need to put pressure on these folks any way we can, at least until the Bitcoin developers come up with a either a way to enforce transactions (not sure if this is even possible) or come up with some way to get rogue miners like this to want to accept them. Its obvious they care nothing about the Bitcoin network but they certainly care about making money and thats where we need to hit them.

To me this is really simple. Make it worth while for miners to accept your transactions. If you pay a higher transaction fee more mining power will play nice and compete to pull in your transaction.

Have a look at the last 10 blocks. None of them have total fee that gets close to 0.1 BTC. Compare that to the 50 BTC block reward.

If I for some reason had access to a huge set of idle computers and wanted them to mine for me I'd have to develop/maintain/update software that effectively turns it into a distributed system. My software would be easier to develop/manage (and more stealthy) if I didn't have to push pending transactions around. With the current fees it is simply not worth the extra hassle.

In other words: If I had 10% of the total mining power, what would be my incentive to pull transactions into my block? Nothing. Don't give me that "I'll do it for the greater good" crap, this is not how the world works. The other 90% make sure that my coins can be spent and keep their value.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
The point is not that he is mining anonymously, but that he is almost certainly stealing computing resources on a massive scale, and doing bitcoin a disfavor in more than one way. But maybe thieves have the right to remain anonymous in your world, and perhaps you dont care if botnets take control over bitcoin.

Besides, thief or not, if someone doesnt want his IP being tracked or published on sites like blockchain, all he has to do is stop mining blocks.  I dont see the difference between tracking deepbit blocks and MM's blocks.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
And you are discussing a topic YOU also have no control over. You wished you had, but you don't. And when I say you I'm not saying you, gigavps, I mean all of you.
How dares he, to mine a pseudo-anonymous currency while wishing to remain anonymous...  Roll Eyes

I'll risk to say that those 30(?) BFL singles you are expecting are the best way you have to fight it.

And it's not PSY, it's psy. Wink
hero member
Activity: 731
Merit: 503
Libertas a calumnia
We better make bitcoin as solid as possible before we really depend on it. People like Luke-Jr and ArtForz attacking alt-chains is part of this hardening-process.
I'm interested in knowing the details of what happened with the attacking of alt-chains by Luke-jr and ArtForz, can you please point me to the right threads, if this is has been already discussed elsewhere?

Thanks very much
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
But I changed my opinion. Let this thread be.

Oh good, if you command so then we can carry on.

Whew. I was getting worried there.

With what? Worried that someone you don't know kicks your ass on hashing power and money earned?
I would say you still are Cheesy
Envy is such an ugly emotion, ain't it?

PSY, if you have no interest in mining then go away. I make plenty of money with mining and bitcoin in general.

Somehow you suddenly decided to allow us to continue discussing a topic that you have no control over. This is what I was commenting on.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
But I changed my opinion. Let this thread be.

Oh good, if you command so then we can carry on.

Whew. I was getting worried there.

Maybe he was just trying to make a quick buck:
Want me to just STFU? 1PKyq6aMKcCwn8cmb9Jc5SkNydLsQb5n7K

If the botnets pwn the network, you will have this:


Do you KNOW and have any kind of PROOF it is a botnet?

About my sig... No need to pay...
<--- Press Ignore!
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
But I changed my opinion. Let this thread be.

Oh good, if you command so then we can carry on.

Whew. I was getting worried there.

Maybe he was just trying to make a quick buck:
Want me to just STFU? 1PKyq6aMKcCwn8cmb9Jc5SkNydLsQb5n7K

If the botnets pwn the network, you will have this:
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
But I changed my opinion. Let this thread be.

Oh good, if you command so then we can carry on.

Whew. I was getting worried there.

With what? Worried that someone you don't know kicks your ass on hashing power and money earned?
I would say you still are Cheesy
Envy is such an ugly emotion, ain't it?
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
But I changed my opinion. Let this thread be.

Oh good, if you command so then we can carry on.

Whew. I was getting worried there.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
But I changed my opinion. Let this thread be.

Oh good, if you command so then we can carry on.
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