Topic: Wondering where your BFL Singles are? - page 3. (Read 6229 times)

It is well known Satoshi is Japanese.

It's well known that Inaba lives and works in the same town as BFL, and visits them frequently.

If I were to bet I'd say you are BFL.

But time will tell.

I would not go so far as to say that anybody has received a ESD damaged device from BFL. We have yet to get (more than likely we will not) any verification that this is actually an assembly area at BFL.I still have a hard time believing a company that has advanced to the level of designing ASIC, would be so ignorant of basic ESD protocol.

Also,almost any kind of IC of sufficient complexity (FPGA definitely qualify), go through a "binning" process.

One is only guaranteed what the IC specification states, anything over that is gravy. The binning process tests the IC's and separates them into various categories determined by the buyer (internal or external). So, people that have units that only run throttled, probably have chips that bin out at specification, while others my receive chips that binned out higher and thus do not need throttling. Weather or not BFL actually bins out anything other than meets/fails specification, I do not know, but I suspect is probably true. They might not even have the details on the binning process depending on the vendor they are buying from and may simply test completed units to make sure they meet a minimum specification.

CPU's are a classic example, many of the different models are exactly the same except the ones that "binned" out higher are sold as a higher model chip. The opposite is also true, AMD is famous for this. 3 core chips are the 4 core chips with one of the cores disabled, normally this would be because the disabled core failed the binning process.Of course if demand is high enough, AMD will disable perfectly good cores to meet demand for the 3 core model. Many people have gotten a great deal by activating the fourth core and finding it to run just fine.

I have a feeling that is what the "jalapenos" are going to be, ASIC that are partially deactivated due to a flaw in part of the chip.Not necessarily a bad thing, it gives BFL a chance to make some money back on those chips and gives customers that do not want/have thousands to spend a perfectly viable option. Purely speculation on my part, but it is an industry practice.

Wat?

Well, maybe BFL would be open to making some changes for better ESD protection. If, as has been pointed out, everything but the flooring is cheap to implement, they might go for it. At the very least ESD mats and ground straps would be reasonable to ask for. Do we have a good liaison (Inaba?) who can broach this topic with them? The first thing to find out is if they already have changes planned.  

I have debated on whether or not to respond to the criticism in this thread, because I know it will be met with lots of FUD, BS, armchair EE's and just plain trolls.

I've elected not to respond up until now, and I'm probably not going to engage much.  But here's the thing:

ESD is a specter that has haunted the electronics industry since the 80's (well, earlier than that, but really came into it's own starting in the 80's).  Early electronics were definitely sensitive to ESD and could be damaged/destroyed by just breathing on them wrong.  In the past 30 years, advances in material and design have rendered ESD for consumer electronics a virtual non-issue.  I'm sure some anecdotal wiseass will pop up and say "Well gosh, my friends brother blew out his iPod by putting it in a Van der Graaf generator!"

That's great, seriously... it is.  I'm glad you are the one in a million person who's experienced an issue with ESD.  Meanwhile, the rest of the nation and the rest of the world somehow manages to handle, operate and abuse billions of pieces of electronic parts per day without blowing out their device.  Pull that motherboard out of your computer and run across the carpet in a dry environment, now go put it back in your computer... it fires right back up! WHOA!

That graphics card?  Yeah, pull it out, rub it on your hair while patting a balloon.  Now go put it back in, WHOA IT WORKS!  

Your iPod?  Take it apart, rub the circuit board on your fuzzy nuts, how put it back in... hey, it still functions!  Crazy!!!!

The fact of the matter is, ESD for consumer electronics has been a non-existent thread for at least a decade if not two.  It's a hold out from 30 years ago when electronics were far, far more fragile and sensitive to ESD.  Now let's discuss the BFL singles for a minute... go grab your single, take it apart (Ok, you might void your warranty here, so you're on your own) and fondle the board lovingly.  Now put it back together... hey it still works!

Want to live dangerously?  Put 12v through the USB port on your single... still works.  

Anyway... ESD, while still a problem in some situations, for most consumer electronics is a boogy man and it's time to grow up and stop being afraid of monsters.

Does this explain why some Singles run the 896 firmware at 34C, while others can't run anything in the 800s without throttling?

I don't say anything. I merely offer you a facial expression that suggests you've gone insane.

Cool.

I nominate Inaba for the scammer label.

Dreamwatcher's points are valid! They should follow ESD protocol. Fact is that right now they are market leader and there are no competition in ASIC area. They can do what they want. I don't like it either but are there any other (good) options? Buy nothing, stop mining?

Lots of trash talk here. I guess most of the haters here never built something with their own hands. Stay away from BFL. If you think that any competitor does better, good luck.

Made in USA!

ASICs supposedly cost millions in R&D and people are entrusting BFL with thousands of dollars for hardware that is assembled in a garage? Really?! I would be just a tiny bit worried that my unit is one out of 100 that fails after a few months because some cereal and cookie crumbles blocked ventilation. About the second picture...even a noob would find a suitable picture on the internetz for his web presentation.

Much better, I will give BFL the benefit of the doubt on the things that cannot be determined. (The flooring is conductive and not carpeting, wire shelves are grounded, assembler is using an ankle grounding strap and the work table is conductive or at least there is a ESD mat in place that cannot be seen).

I want to purchase some of their products myself, and quite honestly was disappointed with the picture in the OP. The assembly station in the MiniRig picture has brought back some faith. I was not expecting a multimillion dollar setup with Fuji placement machines, specialized clean room, air ionization....etc...etc., but some inexpensive grounding devices and an ESD protocol being followed.

As for my personal workstation, I use a ESD mat and a wrist grounding strap when handling open electronics. Hell, I would have even been happy with that in the OP picture.

I do wish BFL the best of luck, and hope sales of the new ASIC will allow them to prosper. With the prosperity, the investment in better production faculties would be prudent especially in terms of better ship times and possibly offering better warranties due to better production practices . Do not forget, they can always rent, they do not have to buy if they feel it is still a risky venture.

They may be the only game in town now, but they do have competitors, and they will not be the only game indefinitely. Now is the time to garner consumer good will and loyalty, it will make it much harder for the competition to take market share away when they are ready with a competing product.

Check out the last photo for their MiniRig assembly area: http://www.butterflylabs.com/mini-rig-production-line/

I agree with you there!

With a certain degree of specialized knowledge of building out these kinds of spaces (I designed NOC's for Charter Communications) this is a dismaying sight. It looks more like a Third World sweat shop than any kind of an electronics assembly facility. Dreamwatcher's comments are dead on, but as SgtSpike so accurately notes, this is the only vendor for this game in town. It would be far more desirable to see them take assembly seriously, and to match the tone of their marketing materials, but the reality is so often this sort of low-tech trashy kitsch.

Hopefully the windfall that mini-rigs represents to them will allow them to grow up as a production facility and and address process better.

LOL good point man.  Very good point.

Not sure why I expected something like this ...

http://www.leedscomms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/computer-server-room1.jpg

Show us a pic of your spectacular workbench!

What a low tech, trashy looking place.