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Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 121. (Read 624205 times)

hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 547
BTC Mining Hardware, Trading and more
EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.

Really impressive, test methodology and seriousness. Congrats!

+1
sr. member
Activity: 540
Merit: 250
BestRate.org
Good News, very professional work ;-)
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.

Really impressive, test methodology and seriousness. Congrats!
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
..yeah
Good news.

Is the watercooling made of copper or aluminum? Any thoughts on price range for that? Hope it's cheap.. otherwise you force me to do my own  Embarrassed
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 502
EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.


Test receiver:






Rohde & Schwarz... very much interesting  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 974
Merit: 1000
EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN555022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.
Fantastic!  Cheesy
g83
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Available Now!
Nice to see this :-) Any estimation on the final pricing with normal cooling and watercooling ?
sr. member
Activity: 243
Merit: 250
ALTCOM Ab9upXvD7ChnJxDRZgMmwNNEf1ftCGWrsE
EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.


Test receiver:


Chamber:


Test Setup, ATX power supply is in that box:


More detailed:


 
[
And i have some more overclocking figures for you guys.
Note: I expect that future versions will be more stable due to a few changes.
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
409 Mhz 1.2V 68.04W - hw-errors increase to 3%
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
448 Mhz 1.25V 81.6W - unstable 50% hw-errors
448 Mhz 1.28V 84.016W - unstable 50% hw-errors


Burnin when you say "future versions", are you referring to the hardware or software?

I personally could wait for revised hardware that could run at a stable 448Mhz.

When i said future versions I meant the production version, done some improvements to the design based on the prototype.
If that enables us to have them running at 450mhz - more test required.
I will do more extensive tests tomorrow, when I've fitted the production heat sink (which arrived yesterday).


News for the Watercooling guys:
The boards can now also be ordered with Toolheads Watercooling solution fitted.

Do you have an idea what causes the extra power consumption?

When chip gets hot it starts consuming more at the same frequency and voltage. Semiconductor basics.

Thank you for your attempt at contributing something useful. Please allow me to brush up your knowledge on semiconductor basics a little:

The microscopic conductivity of a material, sigma, can be described in terms of the motion of electrons (or other charge carriers like holes):

sigma = n*e^2*tau/m'

where
n = carrier concentration
e = electron charge
tau = relaxation time (time between collisions)
m' = effective mass of the electron

In semiconductors, the carrier concentration increases with temperature, due to excitations across the band gap Eg. So n is proportional to exp(-Eg/2kT). The relaxation time tau is inversely proportional to temperature. As the exponential dependence of n dominates, conductivity increases with temperature in semiconductors.

The conductivity of metals however, linearly decreases with temperature. But that effect is not sufficient to explain the almost doubling of the power draw at 448MHz, compared to 282MHz - because that would imply that the chips were running twice as hot (not in Celsius, but in terms of absolute temperature K), so that would be 500+°C.

For more details, please refer to Charles Kittel,"Introduction to solid state physics", or any other book on basic solid state physics.

So, any more explanation attempts from your side?

Nice explanation, for static semiconductor losses.
We're talking CMOS logic here, the power increases linear with frequency and quadratic with voltage.
And the efficiency of the dc/dc converter decreases with increased load.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250

Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.

thanks, my fault. gonna correct it.

corrected. see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2697330

thanks guys  Roll Eyes
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Quote
Those figures in W are per board of 20 cips

Yeha, but you have to calculate that when you think about profitability. you cant use ONE Chip and then put 57w there Cheesy

That would be worse than an FPGA.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Just another miner
hey burnin, about the coming website and payment orders:

in order to get my units assembled asap, should I use btc to pay almost instantly or can I use bank wire and save the same spot on the waiting list as I would get with btc payments?

please answe asap, as it takes time to prepare Smiley

Thanks a lot! You did a great job so far  Cool

Paypal should be just as fast.

EMC-Lab confirmed the appointment.

And i have some more overclocking figures for you guys.
Note: I expect that future versions will be more stable due to a few changes.
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
409 Mhz 1.2V 68.04W - hw-errors increase to 3%
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
448 Mhz 1.25V 81.6W - unstable 50% hw-errors
448 Mhz 1.28V 84.016W - unstable 50% hw-errors


That's amazing numbers. So if we're lucky and everything goes well, we can use ~409MHz and get 45% performance increase comparing to original 282 MHz Smiley

Not really. It's about 33.7% only, because you have to calculate the higher power consumption.
But that's fine too Grin

This is for one chip:

Quote
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=10&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=341&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.53&dpowcon=57.5&dleadtime=8&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=12&action=calc

compared to

Quote
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=10&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=448&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.53&dpowcon=74.4&dleadtime=8&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=12&action=calc

See on the right for profit after power expenses.
And there are not calculated in the errors yet  Wink



Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.

Those figures in W are per board of 20 cips
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250

Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.

thanks, my fault. gonna correct it.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100

Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
That's amazing numbers. So if we're lucky and everything goes well, we can use ~409MHz and get 45% performance increase comparing to original 282 MHz Smiley

Not really. It's about 33.7% 31.5% only, because you have to calculate the higher power consumption.
But that's fine too Grin

This is for one chip:

calculation edited to meet one chip

Quote
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
equals to 2.875W per chip -> http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=10&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=341&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.53&dpowcon=2.875&dleadtime=8&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=12&action=calc

compared to

Quote
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
equals to 3.72W per chip -> http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=10&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=448&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.53&dpowcon=3.72&dleadtime=8&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=12&action=calc

See on the right for profit after power expenses.
And there are not calculated in the errors yet  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
DARKNETMARKETS.COM
hey burnin, about the coming website and payment orders:

in order to get my units assembled asap, should I use btc to pay almost instantly or can I use bank wire and save the same spot on the waiting list as I would get with btc payments?

please answe asap, as it takes time to prepare Smiley

Thanks a lot! You did a great job so far  Cool

Paypal should be just as fast.

EMC-Lab confirmed the appointment.

And i have some more overclocking figures for you guys.
Note: I expect that future versions will be more stable due to a few changes.
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
409 Mhz 1.2V 68.04W - hw-errors increase to 3%
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
448 Mhz 1.25V 81.6W - unstable 50% hw-errors
448 Mhz 1.28V 84.016W - unstable 50% hw-errors


That's amazing numbers. So if we're lucky and everything goes well, we can use ~409MHz and get 45% performance increase comparing to original 282 MHz Smiley
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
Hm... If I pay with BTC will I get some documents stating the price for customs duty?
sr. member
Activity: 267
Merit: 250
Learn to go against your mind
@burnin,
I would like to know is Bitburner xx is going to get EU country of origin certificate and also confirmation of final price for product.
Thanks for reply.

Yep final price must be known before start sales... I Need to prepare and decide how to pay - fiat or btc!
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Sophokles,
Right, conductivity increases, so does current while voltage is constant. Thus power increases. Am I missing something?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Just another miner
@burnin,
I would like to know is Bitburner xx is going to get EU country of origin certificate and also confirmation of final price for product.
Thanks for reply.
hero member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 516
Do you have an idea what causes the extra power consumption?

When chip gets hot it starts consuming more at the same frequency and voltage. Semiconductor basics.

Thank you for your attempt at contributing something useful. Please allow me to brush up your knowledge on semiconductor basics a little:

The microscopic conductivity of a material, sigma, can be described in terms of the motion of electrons (or other charge carriers like holes):

sigma = n*e^2*tau/m'

where
n = carrier concentration
e = electron charge
tau = relaxation time (time between collisions)
m' = effective mass of the electron

In semiconductors, the carrier concentration increases with temperature, due to excitations across the band gap Eg. So n is proportional to exp(-Eg/2kT). The relaxation time tau is inversely proportional to temperature. As the exponential dependence of n dominates, conductivity increases with temperature in semiconductors.

The conductivity of metals however, linearly decreases with temperature. But that effect is not sufficient to explain the almost doubling of the power draw at 448MHz, compared to 282MHz - because that would imply that the chips were running twice as hot (not in Celsius, but in terms of absolute temperature K), so that would be 500+°C.

For more details, please refer to Charles Kittel,"Introduction to solid state physics", or any other book on basic solid state physics.

So, any more explanation attempts from your side?


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