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Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 55. (Read 624200 times)

hero member
Activity: 624
Merit: 502
Yes i am quite busy, but i nevertheless read customers emails daily, in more complex cases i don't reply immediately.

@tarmi
Investments in bitcoin are always high-risk and no one should invest more money then he is comfortable to lose.
I was already writing a mail to you, but it seemed better to put it out here for everyone.

So definitive answer you are looking for:
Bad news first:
I am by law not obligated to give any refunds for customer specific equipment like the bitburners as stated in my AGB (Terms of Service).

Nevertheless I value my customers, and i am nice guy.
I will (on request) refund any money that has not yet been spend on parts.
that will be about 50%.

I have to crunch some number to get the exact per board amount.

I do plan to reuse a lot of components for the bitfury design.
But some can not be reused and will be thrown away, like the PCBs for example.

For those that received a refund i could give a discount on a new bitfury order of about 70% of the not-returned funds.
But we all have to ask ourselves: is bitfury going to deliver?

Executive summary:
50% refund guaranteed.
70% money recovered when ordering a BitFury product.

This looks like it is going to get messy for everyone involved.  
Messy would be a bold understatement.




I am sure this is against German & European Laws - you have earned and can`t finally unload your whole risk to your customers at all.

True, but as a community we should be making sure assemblers like Burnin are looked after. Not only as a thank you for the amount of work he's done, but also from the point of view that if assemblers lose money there is no incentive to do it, meaning they won't, thus killing the DIY boards market completely.



sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 250
Yes i am quite busy, but i nevertheless read customers emails daily, in more complex cases i don't reply immediately.

@tarmi
Investments in bitcoin are always high-risk and no one should invest more money then he is comfortable to lose.
I was already writing a mail to you, but it seemed better to put it out here for everyone.

So definitive answer you are looking for:
Bad news first:
I am by law not obligated to give any refunds for customer specific equipment like the bitburners as stated in my AGB (Terms of Service).

Nevertheless I value my customers, and i am nice guy.
I will (on request) refund any money that has not yet been spend on parts.
that will be about 50%.

I have to crunch some number to get the exact per board amount.

I do plan to reuse a lot of components for the bitfury design.
But some can not be reused and will be thrown away, like the PCBs for example.

For those that received a refund i could give a discount on a new bitfury order of about 70% of the not-returned funds.
But we all have to ask ourselves: is bitfury going to deliver?

Executive summary:
50% refund guaranteed.
70% money recovered when ordering a BitFury product.

This looks like it is going to get messy for everyone involved.  
Messy would be a bold understatement.




I am sure this is against German & European Laws - you have earned and can`t finally unload your whole risk to your customers at all.
sr. member
Activity: 390
Merit: 250
You can use every single PCB for all those people who haven't ordered a bitburner yet, (because they were clever enough to wait until their chips have arrived) but will do
as soon as their batch is shipping.


I do plan to reuse a lot of components for the bitfury design.
But some can not be reused and will be thrown away, like the PCBs for example.

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
All I can say is that I hope indeed I am wrong about BitFury and what I heard of their 1BTC price per chip
AFAIK, the 1BTC per chip is for sample chips. Still a very high price to pay, sample chips should be priced at a level that will stimulate people like Burnin to develop a board and order reals of chips. That's where the real profit is for Bitfury.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
In case some of you have chips lying around with burnin waiting for other batches to be shipped to complete your orders, I am looking to buy 10 chips that are delivered to burnin already.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10

Nothing to do with cost to produce, but rather pricing things based on what they can get idiots to pay who don't understand the term 'difficulty' or pretend they don't care that they wont ever get their BTC back mining when they learn their mistake.
Those idiots I am referring to are of course people buying AsicMiner hardware ...


We seem to be in a massive asci pre-order bubble. Most folks are of the mindset they will make money. Even BFL seems to be betting the entire company on increasing USD/BTC exchange rates. When the losses are too high because of difficulty, refunds stop flowing, or a company like BFL folds, this house of cards is coming down.. Folks will leave as quickly as they came in..
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
However, there is also the BitFury issue of price.

It seems BitFury likes the ideals set out by Avalon and AsicMiner to price things above ever getting any return.
Nothing to do with cost to produce, but rather pricing things based on what they can get idiots to pay who don't understand the term 'difficulty' or pretend they don't care that they wont ever get their BTC back mining when they learn their mistake.
Those idiots I am referring to are of course people buying AsicMiner hardware ...

It really has become a pity the way Bitcoin has changed since the beginning of the year.

People here like Burnin, BKKCoins, Steamboat, Barntech and others have put together hardware for the community and clearly they aren't trying to rip people off and put ridiculous margins on their products ... unlike most of the main ASIC manufacturer companies.

All I can say is that I hope indeed I am wrong about BitFury and what I heard of their 1BTC price per chip - coz I am not wrong about the other ASIC producers ripping people off with their prices.
sr. member
Activity: 243
Merit: 250
ALTCOM Ab9upXvD7ChnJxDRZgMmwNNEf1ftCGWrsE
Yes i am quite busy, but i nevertheless read customers emails daily, in more complex cases i don't reply immediately.

@tarmi
Investments in bitcoin are always high-risk and no one should invest more money then he is comfortable to lose.
I was already writing a mail to you, but it seemed better to put it out here for everyone.

So definitive answer you are looking for:
Bad news first:
I am by law not obligated to give any refunds for customer specific equipment like the bitburners as stated in my AGB (Terms of Service).

Nevertheless I value my customers, and i am nice guy.
I will (on request) refund any money that has not yet been spend on parts.
that will be about 50%.

I have to crunch some number to get the exact per board amount.

I do plan to reuse a lot of components for the bitfury design.
But some can not be reused and will be thrown away, like the PCBs for example.

For those that received a refund i could give a discount on a new bitfury order of about 70% of the not-returned funds.
But we all have to ask ourselves: is bitfury going to deliver?

Executive summary:
50% refund guaranteed.
70% money recovered when ordering a BitFury product.

This looks like it is going to get messy for everyone involved.  
Messy would be a bold understatement.


hero member
Activity: 563
Merit: 500
Well, so it *appears* from other threads that YiFu is going to offer to refund undelivered batches of chips.

It *appears* from other threads that most people seem to want the group buys to go down the refund route.

This looks like it is going to get messy for everyone involved.  At a minimum, it is going to be a lot of extra administrative work for burnin, zefir, Sebastian (and others).

Primarily, I'd like to see a solution that doesn't result in burnin, zefir or Sebastian being out-of-pocket (obviously) and also that doesn't result in burnin being so fed up that he gives up on Bitcoin hardware work.

I'd also quite like to have the two Bitburners I ordered hashing away - they're pretty :-)

Not sure I'll get any of that, but I can live in hope....


roy
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 501
I second that...
hero member
Activity: 624
Merit: 502
With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

After reading the above in another thread I would like to ask whether burnin could offer some kind of upgrade option for existing and paid Avalon orders to BitFury chips - in a way that he retains his well-deserved profit, of course.

It is really a pity that his excellent work is overshadowed by Bitsyncom's inability to keep its promises.

+1

That would be great, as 100% refunds seem to be quite difficult.



All for that, I plan to put my refunded money into Bitfury chips, or maybe Cointerra if anyone ends up doing a group buy. I'd happily let Burnin keep my money as credit until a time arrives where he can produce boards for those chips.
hero member
Activity: 522
Merit: 500
Hasta la Bitcoin siempre!
With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

After reading the above in another thread I would like to ask whether burnin could offer some kind of upgrade option for existing and paid Avalon orders to BitFury chips - in a way that he retains his well-deserved profit, of course.

It is really a pity that his excellent work is overshadowed by Bitsyncom's inability to keep its promises.

+1

That would be great, as 100% refunds seem to be quite difficult.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
"hre Amazon.de Bestellung von "TaoTronics® TT-CM01 3,5..." wurde versandt!"

LCD screen on the way, thanks to Sebastian's tip Smiley

Dont forget the cinch-cable to connect both the monitor and the rpi...

Right, should have one (or more) of those lying around somewhere, since they always include them with everything and I never use them Smiley

Male-Male RCA if I'm correct
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
"hre Amazon.de Bestellung von "TaoTronics® TT-CM01 3,5..." wurde versandt!"

LCD screen on the way, thanks to Sebastian's tip Smiley

Dont forget the cinch-cable to connect both the monitor and the rpi...
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
"hre Amazon.de Bestellung von "TaoTronics® TT-CM01 3,5..." wurde versandt!"

LCD screen on the way, thanks to Sebastian's tip Smiley
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0

Burnin, is that you?

If not, why dont you mind your own business?

I am not burning. Only person who give you offer which you answered no.

Burning don't have time to mail/talk he is busy in assembling boards. He had got more chips as you shoud know. He 1st. priority is do assembly and ship boards to people. After that is done he maybe have time to talk - or use time to develop bitfury chips. But next 1-2month he is ~100% busy in assembly / postage things. Right?
mjb
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

After reading the above in another thread I would like to ask whether burnin could offer some kind of upgrade option for existing and paid Avalon orders to BitFury chips - in a way that he retains his well-deserved profit, of course.

It is really a pity that his excellent work is overshadowed by Bitsyncom's inability to keep its promises.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1011
no

It is answer for your questions how much you get back. Next ~5.45hrs 1/2 of amount, after that maybe nothing?
You bought something - look valuable when bought. Not any more. I have same broblem but I have not lost my patience.

So please don't pollute that thread any more for refunds. You got your answer.



Burnin, is that you?

If not, why dont you mind your own business?

----------------------------------------------------

In other news: Zefir is declaring "an endgame".

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3029465
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
I really don't get the logic of certain people. So they ordered dozens of boards, payed a couple thousands of dollars for them but dont have the money for a second hand lousy Asus EeePC for example and yet they choose to mine on RPi ? I mean c'mmon....
All of that for what, 20 W more than RPI? Or 80 $ more is too much?

Not everyone has only 5 miners. And you dont want to put a notebook into a rented colocation server rack and waste much space with it.
Maybe you only dont know how cheap an rpi is. Why buying a more expensive and bigger computer? The task is simple that has to be done.
I dont really see why you think the notebook is better.

To each their own, really. Some like the RPi solution, some people want a lappy. Back and forth over apples and oranges doesn't do anyone any good. 

It might be a "like" for some but for some its not a possible choice. Thats what i wanted to state.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
I really don't get the logic of certain people. So they ordered dozens of boards, payed a couple thousands of dollars for them but dont have the money for a second hand lousy Asus EeePC for example and yet they choose to mine on RPi ? I mean c'mmon....
All of that for what, 20 W more than RPI? Or 80 $ more is too much?

Not everyone has only 5 miners. And you dont want to put a notebook into a rented colocation server rack and waste much space with it.
Maybe you only dont know how cheap an rpi is. Why buying a more expensive and bigger computer? The task is simple that has to be done.
I dont really see why you think the notebook is better.
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