Topic: www.lunamine.com - 0.0025 BTC/GHs mining contracts | On-demand withdrawals - page 10. (Read 41487 times)

Ok, seems that someone want to bring a proof without proof here :


No. That's precisely what we don't know for sure.

You don't present any evidence here, just some lawyerspeak sleight-of-hand accompanied with useless wikipedia citations in order to acquire some appearance of authority, which is pure waste of time.
Don't try to dilute and divert the subject in order to get an easy rhetorical argument, argument for the sake of argumenting is not the point, bring solid proof or at best reasonable questioning for others to verify instead. Something concrete.

This is not jury you have to seduce. You can't base an argument on your personal conviction that a crime (felony, mail fraud, whatever) did happen.

You must answer the why, the how, the when, where, with facts, or point out a possible direction for investigation, not speculations.
You are using the "may", "maybe", "might" weasel words all too often in your pre-concluded argumentation, which at the end amounts to nothing certain, therefore nothing at all.

If you have something solid to bring, then do it.
Otherwise, you are just adding to the confusion.


That's a possibilty (as a matter of fact, I did not receive that mail and have been without an update ever since), but then again, lunamine does not claim people have received it, but that mail was sent. Mail can be sent and never reach destination (especially when your mail server is being attacked), as you probably know, so in itself that doesn't prove much, it's at best a suspicion.

His last activity is marked as about half an hour after he posted that last message, which is the usual timeout for sessions, so I'm sorry but I can't conclude the following :


This is still speculation. Sorry, but you haven't proved anything here.

With the same base constatation (last seen on this site half an hour after message posted), I could also very well imagined that he posted his message, left the window open, half an hour or so later he logged out without any further check, and after that has been battling some problem. This speculation would be as valid as your speculation.

Now, I've been trying to investigate a bit outside this forum, instead of grasping at straws with wikipedia citations in sterile arguments.
I haven't made progress so far, but at least I'm trying something concrete. Hopefully more to come later.

Anybody having even some small clue about the fate of lunamine is welcome to share it here.

You are a funny guy.

Let's make the fact checking.

First of all: What is a scam. Let me quote Wikipedia:


Did Lunamine do this? The simple answer is: Yes. Otherwise, nobody would have invested.

Did it gain the confidence? Yes.

Did it defraud a group of persons? Yes.

Fraud is - and again, I quote Wikipedia - a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

 We may discuss the term "deliberately". This term is used mainly in the US jurisdiction. Fact is that there is currently no place where people who miss their funds can file a lawsuit but at the place they are living at. At the place where I was defrauded, the term "deliberately" in connection with fraud is only used in big cases. Soat least I can drop it.

Fact is that Lunamine obviously used wrong information. There are about 60 companies registered in Sweden with the term "Luna" in it. None of these companies has any connection to any person who's name was used when registering the domain, nor was or is any of these companies registered in the town where Lunamine should be. So I conclude that the registry information is wrong.

Furthermore: When problems with Lunamine started, the person behind Lunamine wrote:


And a little bit later, the same person wrote:

Has anybody on bitcointalk ever received this e-mail? Obviously not.

Has the user "Lunamine" been on bitcointalk since his last posting? Yes.

This means: "Lunamine" has most probably seen that the mail didn't arrive. Okay, maybe he didn't go into the forum. Then he should have seen the private messages and learned it by reading them.

Any reaction? No.

All together features of scam and fraud.

Now "btcmner" writes:


Very impressed, Sir. But with all due respect: If you really ever did investigate a crime, then most probably not a fraud. You do not know what you are writing about.

Regarding evidence of Sweden, we also have the fact that the OP was very careful to say how they were out of lulea, Sweden, although that could have been to throw people off.

Regarding the amount of bitcoin being added to the lunamine accounts- that was discussed on this thread a couple times, how there would be some variance due to block finding in the amount going into your account. Mao for me there's nothing suspicious about that posting by the "newbie". 

In any case I so keep checking ere very say just HOPING lunamine posts further information. Again though, what types of things could POSSIBLY be happening so that they can't post and say what happened?  Does anyone have any experience or idea?  I mean if it's blackmail what's he worse that they could be doing?  Saying to lunamine "don't post on your thread or we'll kill you?"  I just don't get it.

I do think it's time to say scam.

That would be a good start, indeed, maybe something would come out of it.

On the other hand, thinking of it, what proof do we have that lunamine is really located in Sweden ?
A couple of days before, it appeared that no trace was formally giving them away as actually being in Sweden, even the "Swedish" IP from a mail header appeared to be from an anonymous proxy there, which might have been a simple relay after all.

There was also that swedish user who actually went in front of the building and took a photo. That building is a rental office space, and many small companies have their address there, so there might be some shared office or mailbox service available.
It would be a good idea to go back there and look at the mail boxes, or ask the help desk (if there is one) or neighboring companies if a small company by the name of "Luna" etc was actually a tenant there.

Of course that's impossible now isn't it ? IMO you must have had a "close eye" so-to-speak on your Balance if you were able to deduce that over time the amount it was increasing by was NOT at a constant rate ? I couldn't say I was as closely monitoring my Balance as you apparently were, only that it seemed to increase every hour or so ...


Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Swedish police have not already been notified of what seems to have taken place here because someone from Sweden has filed a Complaint against them !

Ok, my profile indicates "newbie", which is some grade level on this forum, fair enough.
That does not mean I have never investigated a crime before.
In that regard, I wonder who would be the "newbie" between you and me... or do I ?  

So, you just did it, you used the word "scam".

Now go prove it.

This is a challenge to you, the non-"newbie" : prove that your accusation stands.
No trick allowed.
Real evidence is mandated by the gravity of your accusation.
By qualifying something of "scam", you are taking a very strong stance, and you get the responsibility of bringing solid proof in support of your accusation.
Otherwise, you've just committed libel.

Think about it, and be more careful when you accuse someone.

I'm not "with them", I do happen to have bought a share on their operation, like many other people. I do so on many different hosted services, in order to diversify my hash capacity and protect the whole against the failure of part of them (which seems to be the right strategy to adopt, given the circumstances).

As for the payments, anybody watching their balance regularly could easily double check what I said.

Also, regarding withdrawals, I was waiting for some decent amount to accumulate on my balance to withdraw, but unfortunately withdrawals are currently out of the question  

Despite the current events, the fact remains that there no evidence that it is a scam. Instead of throwing accusations around, people should do some investigation : maybe someone will find a good trail and we'll eventually know what this was all about.

Why is it always newbies defending the scams?

You speak as though you were with them from the very start of their operation which wasn't all that long now was it !?!

But if you have payouts to back up your statement then I'll bow to your greater exposure to Lunamine's system !

Like everyone here, I'm sure we'd all love to hear from him/her/them, however, the longer the silence the less likely of it being anything other than a Crime eh ?

It is, in my opinion, a very poor attitude to conflate lunamine's (still unclear) situation with PB Mining's way of doing business.
These are completely separate entities, with no relationship whatsoever.

Lunamine was not paying "non variable" amounts. The increments timings and amounts were consistent with blocks being found with some variance.
PBMining chose to pay a flat rate amount, thus completely eliminating variance.

There is no proof either of them has ever been a Ponzi scheme. PB Mining users have been consistently paid every week without fail, this fact alone makes the accusation of "Ponzi scheme" premature, if not pure libel.

As for lunamine, even now all we have is the word of the owner warning of an attack and some mysterious private problems, but it is nethertheless premature to call it a "scam" or "Ponzi scheme".

And by the way, PB Mining is quiet about his identity, but it is hardly a secret and you can find him easily if you want to have a talk with him. Last: you can find here and there where PBMining is mining. Hint: It's not a self-contained pool, it is mining on various pools (including Eligius). Most miners do the same and diversify/switch pools at their leisure, there is nothing wrong with that.

Last but not least : if you are buying a share in an hosted mining operation, you don't get to see the hardware. Most data center operations are at least partly secret, being related to bitcoin or any other field of business. Most of the time, you'll never get to see the actual networked hardware you're using. If you insist on having a photograph and get one shown to you, you're probably also likely to claim it's a fake etc anyway.

You're not going to be flamed, you just need a short reminder  

• There is no host for that wallet : it was generated by Multibit, which runs on one's PC and not online. More generally, it is usually quite difficult, if not impossible, to locate the owner of a given wallet.
• (to all of the people who are participating in this thread) Please refrain from hurrying to qualify what is happening as a "scam" : at the moment there is no definitive evidence against the hypothesis of lunamine having been somehow attacked and put offline.

No, that would not be very consistent with the fact that the wallet activity begins on august 1st and ends on august 11st, dates which are consistent with lunamine's activity, and would be incompatible with the hypothesis of this wallet belonging to someone else.

My own hypothesis is, that on august 1st, lunamine decided to consolidate their wallets into one that they created with MultiBit, which is a powerful wallet soft (and deserves the 0.5 btc donation they made).

The particular wallet ID above might just be the "savings" wallet of MultiBit, while some other amount may have been used to buy hardware and/or hosting. If someone can trace their own initial lunamine payment to another wallet beginning on august 1st, that would be interesting to compare.

Personally, I'm still not convinced lunamine is a scammer, I'm willing to wait for more information. I would highly appreciate that lunamine answers my PM, and gives some explanation about the situation , on this thread.

So, lunamine, since you are probably reading this, have some courage and say whatever happened. If you are victim of some "blackmail", then please do know that the best answer to blackmail is to make the information public : blackmail then loses all leverage. This would be much better than to let your reputation, and people's willingness to grant you the benefit of doubt, go to shambles.

I know I might get flamed for this but do we know what wallet it is?  Let's contact the wallet host and tell him about the scam.  Maybe he can at least hold part of luna's funds.

I think some of those BTC is lunamine's, but that wallet in total is some online wallet service that combines all the user's BTC into one wallet.

In one of the threads someone pointed to that wallet but didn't think it was theirs.  That's a big sum to have in a short time...amazing. 

Hmm yes why wouldn't they move that if it was a scam?  Heck first thing I'd do is move it all over, use a mixer or two etc.

But if he "cant move" as you say, how could that be happening?  You think someone is blackmailing him and has located him physically and told him not to move the BTC in that wallet or something? or maybe the police but that's a really really long shot.

Their wallet is https://blockchain.info/address/15YoDfLcYWpY39C5eHANviTj1CjQ75UH5e
The amount received is 1,993.57651 btc. Not bad.
Apart from a 0.5 btc contribution to MultiBit (indeed a very well done wallet software), the received btc remain untouched to this date.
Maybe the wallet owner is really in big trouble and can't move at the moment...
 

Not 100% relevant, but I've tried to communicate with their staff numerous times about getting a Mobile App set up for them. No replies.

Made me hesitant, because:
1. No communication or reply to my queries (forum PM, email, web form)
2. They don't seem to want to offer any extra/bonus services to their members.

cex is possibly the most legit but the donwside with them is that it is meant to be a trading site but the rising difficulty which results in higher maintenance fees compared to mined coins and 0.2% trading fee has made it almost impossible to make profits there nowadays.

I have not investigated in scrypt.cc that much but they have been online quite awhile already.

but personally I have invested some BTC into pbmining.com and some into cex
pbmining have also been around for quite awhile and the earliest users including me has started to get profits on first contracts.

I don't even think CEX is the great thing everyone is making it out to be.  There is also the issue that once something becomes big enough, the incentive to steal the funds gets very big and probably becomes harder to resist.