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Topic: [XCR] Crypti | Dapps | Sidechains | Dapp Store | OPEN SOURCE | 100% own code | DPoS - page 404. (Read 804700 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Wow, im just amazed at the amount of confidence people here have in BTER. I too am heavily invested in XCR and would lose alot if BTER ran. I however have factored this into my decision and am well aware that there is, in my opinion, A HIGH probability BTER runs.

Considering all the red flags already and the amount of money they have lost, it would be ridiculous to side in confidence with bter at this point. I hope all goes well but you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money. With that being said I have much more confidence in the devs not running than the exchange at this point in time. Devs have proven to be competent and trustworthy. A few hickups here and there but minute compared to bter.. geesh.

I agree to wait on BTER but don't fool yourselves, there is high risk involved in this situation.

I accept there is risk. But dont put it as high as you do. There is one-Sigma p-value BTER will run based on current information. When it gets to 3-Sigma, (against the null hypothesis opposing the hypothesis the NXT heist will lead to a run on BTER) let me know. When I first found out about the NXT heist, I converted my XCR into BTC and fled. However the BTC withdrawal took about 4 hours, by which point I changed my mind. The trading opportunities were too interesting to miss. I put all my trading funds back on BTER and they are still here. Some nice trading has been possible. I consider it worth the risk. Who dares wins.
legendary
Activity: 1146
Merit: 1000
Wow, im just amazed at the amount of confidence people here have in BTER. I too am heavily invested in XCR and would lose alot if BTER ran. I however have factored this into my decision and am well aware that there is, in my opinion, A HIGH probability BTER runs.

Considering all the red flags already and the amount of money they have lost, it would be ridiculous to side in confidence with bter at this point. I hope all goes well but you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money. With that being said I have much more confidence in the devs not running than the exchange at this point in time. Devs have proven to be competent and trustworthy. A few hickups here and there but minute compared to bter.. geesh.

I agree to wait on BTER but don't fool yourselves, there is high risk involved in this situation.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I loved the attempt to get 1.7 million dollars back by offering the hacker 10 btc when it first went down. LOL.

BTER got greedy and thought they could have their cake and eat it too.

But it's ok, they are geniuses there... it's all good  Grin

Anyway, enough on this issue. Devs here seem to have a plan in place for dealing with this situation - let's let them execute it.


BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people.

 Cheesy

You know how the hack happened and what else occurred after that?

I rely on what we have been told. Lin from BTER apparently failed to put in place two-factor authentication for a server. The hacker accessed via brute force password attack. That is what we know from what we have been told or can infer from what we have been told.

Edit: Smart people make mistakes too. The difference is that they rectify their errors and tend not to repeat them. I am thinking what everyone else may be thinking, but the proof of the pudding will be whether BTER sort it all out. If they do not, that may give some credence to the conspiracy theorists. However, if they sort it out, then BTER played no deliberate part in this.
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
I loved the attempt to get 1.7 million dollars back by offering the hacker 10 btc when it first went down. LOL.

BTER got greedy and thought they could have their cake and eat it too.

But it's ok, they are geniuses there... it's all good  Grin

Anyway, enough on this issue. Devs here seem to have a plan in place for dealing with this situation - let's let them execute it.


BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people.

 Cheesy

You know how the hack happened and what else occurred after that?
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people.

 Cheesy

You know how the hack happened and what else occurred after that?
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
I'm also hoping the bounty or 200 btc trade for stolen NXT will work.

I just don't agree that guys over at BTER are smart... they had 50 million NXT on a hot wallet with a simple password that was also being used for MOST of their other accounts. This is beyond absurd red flags. I don't see how we can go from that knowledge to "these are smart guys who know what they are doing".

I hope you are right btw. I want to see those NXT back in the hands of the people who should own them and I don't want NXT dumped into an ice age.


Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.


How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

I would also vote against it. I have confidence in the devs and BTER to ensure a succesful launch. BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people. Chillax and enjoy the ride.

Edit: If they would release the hacker's IP address and timezone (and also confirm a 200 BTC bounty to serious minds to be paid on his arrest) that would give Jedi's here present something to do whilst they wait.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.


How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

I would also vote against it. I have confidence in the devs and BTER to ensure a succesful launch. BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people. Chillax and enjoy the ride.

Edit: If they would release the hacker's IP address and timezone (and also confirm a 200 BTC bounty to serious minds to be paid on his arrest) that would give Jedi's here present something to do whilst they wait. I think it is a kid from the US (note his use of the expression 'already' meaning 'hurry up'). There is a 60% probability he is a white male in his 20s from an upper middle class Jewish American Family living in the suburbs. He probably worked alone and did it from home where he still lives with his oblivious parents. The expression 'already' is more commonly though not exclusively used by Jewish Americans. His parents are possibly academics. Profile end.

Edit: Note also his arrogance, iterating he had cleaned out their NXT account in moments. His profile fits someone who may be contributing to this and other forums and I accept he may be older (obsessive compulsive disorder personality), that his family emigated to America from elsewhere or he was educated at least in part in America, and that he may have used the expression 'already' to disguise his origins.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.


How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
BTER is offering the hacker an additional 200 BTC to return the 45 million NXT. If that fails, we will never see that money again. I am not as confident as you are and don't think BTER is at all confident. Still, if I were the hacker I would take that - 310 BTC and no concerns about payback. Sounds like a win/win for him. The 50 million NXT will be a stone that he has to try to rid himself of, it won't be easy to make clean with it.



But THEY DON'T HAVE A WEEK.  Tongue



I am confident they will get their money back from the "hacker".

Having lived in Asia for several years and another experience with the chinese in San Fran (see Norman Hsu on Wiki, pay special attention to Raymond Kwok Chow), I am intimately familiar with their methods of collection.  


hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
This coin looks interesting however lack of promotion and any other activity is disappointing. I guess in the next few days it might go to the moon or crash completely.

It has been stated numerous times that marketing will start AFTER the coin has launched.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors

But THEY DON'T HAVE A WEEK.  Tongue



I am confident they will get their money back from the "hacker".

Having lived in Asia for several years and another experience with the chinese in San Fran (see Norman Hsu on Wiki, pay special attention to Raymond Kwok Chow), I am intimately familiar with their methods of collection.  

legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
Just to play devil's advocate. Couldn't Bter show you anyone's BTC address and say it's theirs? As I'm sure there are quite a few people that use the site and have large BTC holdings..

This has crossed our minds when doing a team conference yesterday, we will ask Bter for a solution.

Solution is simple. Say they should send you 0.123456 BTC from that address as a test.


Simpler solution, they can sign a message using the PK of that account. That's what signing was designed for.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000

We only need Bter to stay in business for a week.  That will give us all time to get our personal wallets and withdraw our XCR, and for the devs to get their 750BTC, minus the escrow fee of 1%.

After that.... who cares.

Well, gox made it several days, too Grin
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
But THEY DON'T HAVE A WEEK.  Tongue

Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

Not true. I would vote against it. Devs don't get the BTC until they've delivered a product. That was the deal. Enough deals have changed since the original announcement.

You trust BTER more than CRYPTI devs at this point in time?  Huh

In this situation you have to trust someone. You either trust Bter not to run off with the BTC, or you trust the Crypti devs not to run off with the BTC. Those are the only options. In this case, my opinion is for the devs to keep their word on one thing. Something that haven't been very good at so far.

We only need Bter to stay in business for a week.  That will give us all time to get our personal wallets and withdraw our XCR, and for the devs to get their 750BTC, minus the escrow fee of 1%.

After that.... who cares.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
In the meantime btc's still falling, time to get into the 2nd gen crypto train peeps  Smiley



The reasons for current BTC price weaknesses are interesting. Margin trading is the likely culprit.

Beginning at the beginning (by way of foreplay), missionary position explanations are here:

http://www.coindesk.com/price-bitcoin-falls-500-lowest-level-since-may/


However, the best explanation is probably that margin trading has increased significantly (BTC fire sales are taking place when leveraged traders who get it wrong are forced to close their positions rapidly)

http://www.coindesk.com/margin-trading-crash-price-bitcoin/



Longer term, if regulation clamps down on margin trading to some extent, I adhere to the Telegraphs views on the subject.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10960012/Bitcoin-price-to-hit-2000-by-end-of-the-year.html

Quantum,

As for SubStrata, the so called Master(bater) of the Universe, it is obvious that he is just an adolescent investing his allowance so he can buy another game for his X-box.  He is unwilling to learn from those of us with experience, and insists on peeing on the electric fence for himself.  

You cant train a pig by wrestling him in the mud, because the pig likes it.

As for the price of BTC falling:  BTC is being sold to raise capital.  The BTC price has closely followed the stock markets, where margin trading is the rule.  

For those that do not know what margin trading is, it means you pay 10% of the price and borrow the 90% balance at 2% interest.  This allows a trader to buy 10 times as much stock for the same stake.  If the stock rises, the trader either sells and pays the loan, or lets it ride.  Since a trader has to maintain the 10% equity in the stock, if the price falls, he must come up with more cash to maintain the 10% level.  This is called a "margin call".  

Bad part is that to fund a margin call, a trader will sell some of the stock, which causes the stock price to fall further, which necessitates further margin calls, and more selling, more margin calls, more selling, etc............

Anyway, the stock markets have reached what is called a "SIX SIGMA" event.  That means an event with a chance of billions to one of happening.  What it is is complicated, but it is very real.  

The smart money is exiting the market entirely, or is investing in physical silver, gold, or mining stocks.  Oil futures are also popular due to the coming war and the expected $200 a barrel price for crude.  

There will be much happening in the world soon, affecting both the BTC price and XCR by default.  Now that it has been revealed that the MH17 plane was shot down by a Ukranian AirForce fighter with cannon fire and an air-to-air missile, the fuse has been lit on the Russian Front.  

Cybercurrency will play an even more important role in the future.  BTC broke the barriers, but just like MySpace, Lycos, and tape players, something better, faster, and cheaper always comes along and edges the old out.  XCR has a great chance at being the one that bumps BTC off the top.

Litoshi, have you studied complexity theory, like chaos and fractal market theory? Taleb, Mandelbrot, and Edgar Peters have written some good books on the subject. Your outlook is very similar to my own.

This is the second time in 12hrs I'm seeing the words "SIX SIGMA" I totally unrelated fields... The first place was talking about LEAN as well... I must look in to this all...  

Where is a good place to start?



Sigma certainty may be compared to flipping coins and calculating the odds of the same side (heads or tails) continuously landing sunny side up. But this is somewhat misleading.

In fact, five-Sigma describes a p-value or probability of 3 x 10(-7). That is to say, it describes something highly improbable.

So what is the improbable 'thing' that it describes?

P-values are used to test the probability of hypotheses being correct. There is always a null hypothesis (that X and Y are not to any extent related to one another) and a research hypothesis (that X and Y are correlated).

Researchers always assume the null hypothesis as a starting point and then apply a dataset from experimental observations to see whether or to what extent the null hypothesis is improbable.

When the first data relating to the Higgs Boson emerged from the particle accelerator at CERN, the null hypothesis was immediately under challenge because (as I recollect) 3-Sigma evidence brought the null hypothesis into doubt right from the starting blocks.

When a fuller data set emerged, 5-Sigma certainty was announced, effectively annihilating the null hypothesis. The effect of this was that the Higgs Boson could confidently be confirmed to the waiting world as having been experimentally observed.

6-Sigma certainty is even more stringent. It may be said to overegg an already statistically certain pudding. However, as an emphatic, it forms as useful an addition to vernacular as expletives. Instead of saying that something is absolutely fucking certain, one may say instead that the null hypothesis which opposes it has been demonstrated incorrect by a 6-Sigma dataset.

Edit: One of the BTER research hypotheses published by someone here present is that BTER will fold due to NXT heist losses. That is to say, they assert a correlation between the NXT heist and the imminent collapse of BTER. I disagree because the null hypothesis (that is, the hypothesis that there is no correlation between the NXT heist and the failure of BTER) has not been satisfactorily challenged. Accordingly it is logical to assume that BTER will continue to be a leading global exchange and that the NXT issue will be resolved satisfactorily. If any evidence to the contrary exists (note my use of the word 'evidence'...and for the avoidance of doubt, conspiracy theories are not the same thing as conspiracy facts), pray grace us with same or, following the injunction of Wittginstein, whereof you do not know, thereof say nothing.


full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

Not true. I would vote against it. Devs don't get the BTC until they've delivered a product. That was the deal. Enough deals have changed since the original announcement.

You trust BTER more than CRYPTI devs at this point in time?  Huh

In this situation you have to trust someone. You either trust Bter not to run off with the BTC, or you trust the Crypti devs not to run off with the BTC. Those are the only options. In this case, my opinion is for the devs to keep their word on one thing. Something that haven't been very good at so far.

We only need Bter to stay in business for a week.  That will give us all time to get our personal wallets and withdraw our XCR, and for the devs to get their 750BTC, minus the escrow fee of 1%.

After that.... who cares.

Exactly.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors
Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

Not true. I would vote against it. Devs don't get the BTC until they've delivered a product. That was the deal. Enough deals have changed since the original announcement.

You trust BTER more than CRYPTI devs at this point in time?  Huh

In this situation you have to trust someone. You either trust Bter not to run off with the BTC, or you trust the Crypti devs not to run off with the BTC. Those are the only options. In this case, my opinion is for the devs to keep their word on one thing. Something that haven't been very good at so far.

We only need Bter to stay in business for a week.  That will give us all time to get our personal wallets and withdraw our XCR, and for the devs to get their 750BTC, minus the escrow fee of 1%.

After that.... who cares.
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
to START:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Misbehavior-Markets-Financial-Turbulence/dp/0465043577/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408215259&sr=8-1&keywords=mandelbrot


In the meantime btc's still falling, time to get into the 2nd gen crypto train peeps  Smiley



The reasons for current BTC price weaknesses are interesting. Margin trading is the likely culprit.

Beginning at the beginning (by way of foreplay), missionary position explanations are here:

http://www.coindesk.com/price-bitcoin-falls-500-lowest-level-since-may/


However, the best explanation is probably that margin trading has increased significantly (BTC fire sales are taking place when leveraged traders who get it wrong are forced to close their positions rapidly)

http://www.coindesk.com/margin-trading-crash-price-bitcoin/



Longer term, if regulation clamps down on margin trading to some extent, I adhere to the Telegraphs views on the subject.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10960012/Bitcoin-price-to-hit-2000-by-end-of-the-year.html

Quantum,

As for SubStrata, the so called Master(bater) of the Universe, it is obvious that he is just an adolescent investing his allowance so he can buy another game for his X-box.  He is unwilling to learn from those of us with experience, and insists on peeing on the electric fence for himself.  

You cant train a pig by wrestling him in the mud, because the pig likes it.

As for the price of BTC falling:  BTC is being sold to raise capital.  The BTC price has closely followed the stock markets, where margin trading is the rule.  

For those that do not know what margin trading is, it means you pay 10% of the price and borrow the 90% balance at 2% interest.  This allows a trader to buy 10 times as much stock for the same stake.  If the stock rises, the trader either sells and pays the loan, or lets it ride.  Since a trader has to maintain the 10% equity in the stock, if the price falls, he must come up with more cash to maintain the 10% level.  This is called a "margin call".  

Bad part is that to fund a margin call, a trader will sell some of the stock, which causes the stock price to fall further, which necessitates further margin calls, and more selling, more margin calls, more selling, etc............

Anyway, the stock markets have reached what is called a "SIX SIGMA" event.  That means an event with a chance of billions to one of happening.  What it is is complicated, but it is very real.  

The smart money is exiting the market entirely, or is investing in physical silver, gold, or mining stocks.  Oil futures are also popular due to the coming war and the expected $200 a barrel price for crude.  

There will be much happening in the world soon, affecting both the BTC price and XCR by default.  Now that it has been revealed that the MH17 plane was shot down by a Ukranian AirForce fighter with cannon fire and an air-to-air missile, the fuse has been lit on the Russian Front.  

Cybercurrency will play an even more important role in the future.  BTC broke the barriers, but just like MySpace, Lycos, and tape players, something better, faster, and cheaper always comes along and edges the old out.  XCR has a great chance at being the one that bumps BTC off the top.

Litoshi, have you studied complexity theory, like chaos and fractal market theory? Taleb, Mandelbrot, and Edgar Peters have written some good books on the subject. Your outlook is very similar to my own.

This is the second time in 12hrs I'm seeing the words "SIX SIGMA" I totally unrelated fields... The first place was talking about LEAN as well... I must look in to this all...  

Where is a good place to start?


sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
will bter die? what do u think guys?

BTER is a well established exchange with a good international reputation. It should survive because the hacker apparently did not use TOR to disguise his IP address. If this surprising newflash proves correct, he should be picked up fairly quickly and forced to return the NXT. End of controversy. The hacker is just a kid who is (following the heist and subsequent blackmail) very seriously out of his depth. If located in any countries who subscribe to the European Arrest Warrant Scheme (that is, most countries including Ukraine but not Russia) he will be lifted and extradited by Interpol. If US based, heaven knows what they will do to him. Put him on death row probably. At very least, they will be keen to take pictures of his johnson.

Well at the moment the numbers still look good for Bter just 10 BTC off of Bittrex



What is the link to this statistic?

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/markets/info

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