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Topic: [XCR] Crypti | Dapps | Sidechains | Dapp Store | OPEN SOURCE | 100% own code | DPoS - page 403. (Read 804700 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I don't see why Bter wouldn't give you XCR holders Bter account number + Bter username???
Both together should be good enough to distribute the XCR to holders if Bter goes down

I hope BTER will let the devs go live this evening by enabling the distribution to wallets if that is what investors choose to do.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Looking at Bter, they have suspended trading on half the coins.  The left hand window shows 0.00% change in price for them.

Also Qora seems to be rising.  Must be the NXT sellers moving there.

Steady on Litoshi. Many currencies have had no price changes where the volume is zero or close to zero. This just means no-one can be bothered to trade in those currencies. It does not mean that trading has been ceased by BTER.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
I don't see why Bter wouldn't give you XCR holders Bter account number + Bter username???
Both together should be good enough to distribute the XCR to holders if Bter goes down
hero member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 509
At the very least, I expect folks should copy down their Bter Id numbers. I also took a screenshot of my holdings, although not entirely sure it'd do me any good.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.


How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

Technically the web wallet works from any possible operating system that has a web browser just like the test net. The node software (and subsequently forging capability) which contains a wallet that can be run locally is currently built around Linux (can run on multiple distributions) but the Docker one-click will be able to work on other OS'es.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Looking at Bter, they have suspended trading on half the coins.  The left hand window shows 0.00% change in price for them.

Also Qora seems to be rising.  Must be the NXT sellers moving there.

How do you know trading has been suspended on any of the coins?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors
apart from the risk of Bter collapsing, is their any risk of Crypti funds?? will they compensate Nxt holders using other crypto on site?

I doubt if they held the 750 BTC escrow funds in a separate wallet.  Not likely as BTC are fungible.
sr. member
Activity: 282
Merit: 250
Fear only from the fear itself
apart from the risk of Bter collapsing, is their any risk of Crypti funds?? will they compensate Nxt holders using other crypto on site?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors
We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

You have a list of XCR holders?  What is the key for listing each owner, as we dont have XCR wallets yet.  Does it list by Bter account number?  If that is the case, every one needs to copy down their account number.  If Bter goes dark, that may be lost.

We are trying to figure out if there is a way we could use the BTER data (which yes, it is account number based) to distribute ourselves in the case of BTER collapsing just to be safe. We don't have an exact solution yet as the hard part is determining how to associated a BTER account with an actual person. BTER can't give us email addresses as that would be a privacy issue (which we haven't asked), so we are open to any ideas.

Hopefully it will never get to that point, but we would rather be prepared in the case that it does. BTER has already stated they don't have the funds to cover the loss themselves.

Do you have any other info from Bter on the account holders, such as BTC account money was sent from?
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

You have a list of XCR holders?  What is the key for listing each owner, as we dont have XCR wallets yet.  Does it list by Bter account number?  If that is the case, every one needs to copy down their account number.  If Bter goes dark, that may be lost.


Right like I posted above Bter account number + one other Identifier


So they just give you Bter account numbers? Like I said use exact amount of XCR time stamped or ask Bter for usernames...
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors
Looking at Bter, they have suspended trading on half the coins.  The left hand window shows 0.00% change in price for them.

Also Qora seems to be rising.  Must be the NXT sellers moving there.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

You have a list of XCR holders?  What is the key for listing each owner, as we dont have XCR wallets yet.  Does it list by Bter account number?  If that is the case, every one needs to copy down their account number.  If Bter goes dark, that may be lost.

We are trying to figure out if there is a way we could use the BTER data (which yes, it is account number based) to distribute ourselves in the case of BTER collapsing just to be safe. We don't have an exact solution yet as the hard part is determining how to associated a BTER account with an actual person. BTER can't give us email addresses as that would be a privacy issue (which we haven't asked), so we are open to any ideas.

Hopefully it will never get to that point, but we would rather be prepared in the case that it does. BTER has already stated they don't have the funds to cover the loss themselves.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.


How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

The dilemma is that we have a working main net and could launch it, but we can't distribute it without BTER. BTER could stop the launch by never initiating distribution causing us to never have a working main net, and therefore keep the funds from us.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors
We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

You have a list of XCR holders?  What is the key for listing each owner, as we dont have XCR wallets yet.  Does it list by Bter account number?  If that is the case, every one needs to copy down their account number.  If Bter goes dark, that may be lost.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money.

Strictly, BTER is the trading name of Maxcloud Incorporated, which so far as I know is a company registered with the Register of Companies in the British Virgin Islands (that is, it is a company under the jurisdiction of the (British) Crown in the right of the Government of the BVI). The BVI is a British Territory and English law applies, resulting in final appeals being heard by the Privy Council in London.

Bearer shares in BVI companies came to an end in 2010. Most likely, there is a trust structure in place whereby the BVI company merely holds shares in further corporate entities which in turn own interests in the BTER exchange. It is possible to secure International Freezing Injunctions in the High Court of the British Virgin Islands and to enforce those Freezing Injunctions in other EC states (including Switzerland) pursuant to the Brussels & Lugano Convention. In other words, the trust structure in the BVI could be frozen on an ex parte basis (without notice first being provided to the directors or shareholders of the BVI trust entity).

As bearer shares are extremely unlikely (having been redundant in the BVI since December 2010), the structure may be relatively transparent in comparison with complex Cayman Island/BVI/Liechtenstein smorgasbords.

No SPA (sale purchase agreement) of the BVI company would be possible in the absence of Certificates of Good Standing from the Registrar of Companies in the BVI. In other words, BTER will probably resolve the NXT fiasco due to the fact they could easily be targeted by litigators if for any reason they fail to do so.

If they did pull a stunt, the BVI trustee likely to be running their company for them would have to face the music as well. But I do not think BTER intend to dp anything other than honour their comittments. They are a major Crypto exchange and have a good international reputation. However, you should make your own minds up and decide what levels of risk you are prepared to take. Without risk, reward is often minimal. With high risk, reward can be greater. Dont let other people do your thinking for you.

All in all, there is some risk but it is perhaps not as high as some others maintain. I am fairly chillaxed about it all and for the avoidance of doubt I am fully invested on BTER and in XCR. Who dares wins. Enjoy the trading opportunities when the wallet goes live, is how I see it.

sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.


Great was going to suggest a Back-up point of Bter XCR holdings... Using Bter account number and exact amount of XRC that was in the account at that Back-up point for verification of ownership...

Bter account number + XCR total = XCR transfer (by Crypti Dev) to holder....

What Time stamp do you have on the Bter account holdings? What time zone? so we can all go on right now and check for the verification process...  


Edit: I also had a thought that... not sure what account info Bter gives you but if they give you Bter account number + Bter username... That should be enough to prove ownership... We just can't only use Bter account number like the ledger... bc ppl could just guess at an account number and then claim the XCR..
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.
legendary
Activity: 1146
Merit: 1000
Look at the situation if you were the hacker.  You would have NXT that you cannot spend.  To deposit any of it in other exchanges would expose your identity.  The other exchange would then embargo the account and notify Bter.  The blockchain will also expose any transfer of the NXT.

Any purchase made with the stolen NXT would be traceable to the hacker as well.

He is stuck.  He can only stall for time and hope Bter pays.

Frankly, I dont think the hacker should be rewarded for his crime.  They should reset the blockchain and then offer a reward for his head, or fingers.

and what about mgw?
hero member
Activity: 627
Merit: 500
This is ridiculous, we don't have anywhere near enough information for you to build a probabilistic model that means anything at this point.

All we know is that BTER could not secure 50 million NXT and is now close to insolvency - this they have stated on their own.

BTER mistakenly left a backdoor on NXT trading open for a few hrs and the price fell by 25%... imagine what will happen when they are forced to default on all NXT payments. Trust is eroded completely and a complete run on other currencies there is being averted only because there is:

a) hope that the NXT community will fork (THEY WILL NOT)
b) hope that the hacker takes the option of taking 300 btc for the return of funds (I hope he does)
c) hope that BTER might survive this (they will not barring a or b)
d) confusion still regarding how serious this is




Wow, im just amazed at the amount of confidence people here have in BTER. I too am heavily invested in XCR and would lose alot if BTER ran. I however have factored this into my decision and am well aware that there is, in my opinion, A HIGH probability BTER runs.

Considering all the red flags already and the amount of money they have lost, it would be ridiculous to side in confidence with bter at this point. I hope all goes well but you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money. With that being said I have much more confidence in the devs not running than the exchange at this point in time. Devs have proven to be competent and trustworthy. A few hickups here and there but minute compared to bter.. geesh.

I agree to wait on BTER but don't fool yourselves, there is high risk involved in this situation.

I accept there is risk. But dont put it as high as you do. There is one-Sigma p-value BTER will run based on current information. When it gets to 3-Sigma, (against the null hypothesis opposing the hypothesis the NXT heist will lead to a run on BTER) let me know.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Member of the Crypti Foundation Board of Directors
Look at the situation if you were the hacker.  You would have NXT that you cannot spend.  To deposit any of it in other exchanges would expose your identity.  The other exchange would then embargo the account and notify Bter.  The blockchain will also expose any transfer of the NXT.

Any purchase made with the stolen NXT would be traceable to the hacker as well.

He is stuck.  He can only stall for time and hope Bter pays.

Frankly, I dont think the hacker should be rewarded for his crime.  They should reset the blockchain and then offer a reward for his head, or fingers.
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