[XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos - page 1442.

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:50:51 PM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 03, 2014, 12:47:26 PM

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:45:16 PM

Quote from: getmining.info on June 03, 2014, 12:40:57 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

It's al-right mate, you did a good job. Loads of people here are a bit too quick.

He did a good job about what?
Seem you don't get what the test is about...

Show me that the transaction can be traced to an address, don't lookup to the address in a blockchain with few transactions, and guess the transaction based on the transferred amount and on the time.

That's just stupid...

He did no job...just some stupid FUD

Its no point in being able to guess an address when there are so few transactions, if you're not able to do so when the blockchain will contain lots of transactions...which will make tracing impossible.

Well, if a person can guess right with a few transactions, I'm sure a good programmer can figure out how to correctly guess on a lot of transactions. Yes?

No, he cannot figure out...at some point it impossible to figure out.
Its like the strength of a password. At some point it becomes impossible to find it. Well, impossible in a life time.

But wouldn't it be possible with only 2 splits? If splitting the transaction 5-10 times is problematic then the possible combinations won't be that large, at least for a computer.

qawzsx

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

NOT FUD! FACTS!

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 03, 2014, 12:50:27 PM

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:47:53 PM

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

In response to what you posted, How can you tell? What method did you use to determine your end result? Post this so the community can see and verify its repeatability.

He used no method, he just looked for an address sending that amount in the blockexplorer...
Basically he guessed it since there are few transactions, and he know the aprox. time when the transaction took place...

Its pointless

Looking for transactions that sum to the amount you are looking for is a method.

Its not a method, because at some point its useless.

qawzsx

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

NOT FUD! FACTS!

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 03, 2014, 12:47:26 PM

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:45:16 PM

Quote from: getmining.info on June 03, 2014, 12:40:57 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

It's al-right mate, you did a good job. Loads of people here are a bit too quick.

He did a good job about what?
Seem you don't get what the test is about...

Show me that the transaction can be traced to an address, don't lookup to the address in a blockchain with few transactions, and guess the transaction based on the transferred amount and on the time.

That's just stupid...

He did no job...just some stupid FUD

Its no point in being able to guess an address when there are so few transactions, if you're not able to do so when the blockchain will contain lots of transactions...which will make tracing impossible.

Well, if a person can guess right with a few transactions, I'm sure a good programmer can figure out how to correctly guess on a lot of transactions. Yes?

No, he cannot figure out...at some point it impossible to figure out.
Its like the strength of a password. At some point it becomes impossible to find it. Well, impossible in a life time.

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:47:53 PM

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

In response to what you posted, How can you tell? What method did you use to determine your end result? Post this so the community can see and verify its repeatability.

He used no method, he just looked for an address sending that amount in the blockexplorer...
Basically he guessed it since there are few transactions, and he know the aprox. time when the transaction took place...

Its pointless

Looking for transactions that sum to the amount you are looking for is a method.

getmining.info

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:45:16 PM

Quote from: getmining.info on June 03, 2014, 12:40:57 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

It's al-right mate, you did a good job. Loads of people here are a bit too quick.

He did a good job about what?

Seem you don't get what the test is about...

Show me that the transaction can be traced to an address, don't lookup to the address in a blockchain with few transactions, and guess the transaction based on the transferred amount and on the time.

That's just stupid...

He did no job...just some stupid FUD

Its no point in being able to guess an address when there are so few transactions, if you're not able to do so when the blockchain will contain lots of transactions...which will make tracing impossible.

Its like saying ... "yo test this car for me...it does not have all the wheels now, but it will have them..."
And the tester say ... "well, the car will not move...the idea of a car its flawed..."

I know exactly what the test is about.

I didn't hear anyone else standing up and giving any answers.

He managed it with guess work possible due to several factors.

Regardless, you are just slating him and now me and he has said there was no 'direct link'

Jeez, have a bit of 'community spirit' Roll Eyes

Reese212

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

thank you for posting this.
i thought all the time that english is not easy for you because you post not many words, that sounds rude, but it is totally okay for somebody learning the language!

so to me it Looks like this is where we are:

- at current Version (0.9.1.35) it is possible to trace Transactions with having a Close look into blockexplorer. BUT this only works because of very very few Transactions that occur at present day. no matter, it is not truly anonymous, but it will be harder to trace if there are more Transactions.
- at Version 0.9.1.37 this Kind of "searching the blockchain for a known amount of XC" won't work any longer as atcsecure said.

plz tell me if i'm right, thank you!

qawzsx

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

NOT FUD! FACTS!

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

In response to what you posted, How can you tell? What method did you use to determine your end result? Post this so the community can see and verify its repeatability.

He used no method, he just looked for an address sending that amount in the blockexplorer...
Basically he guessed it since there are few transactions, and he know the aprox. time when the transaction took place...

Its pointless

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 12:45:16 PM

Quote from: getmining.info on June 03, 2014, 12:40:57 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

It's al-right mate, you did a good job. Loads of people here are a bit too quick.

He did a good job about what?
Seem you don't get what the test is about...

Show me that the transaction can be traced to an address, don't lookup to the address in a blockchain with few transactions, and guess the transaction based on the transferred amount and on the time.

That's just stupid...

He did no job...just some stupid FUD

Its no point in being able to guess an address when there are so few transactions, if you're not able to do so when the blockchain will contain lots of transactions...which will make tracing impossible.

Well, if a person can guess right with a few transactions, I'm sure a good programmer can figure out how to correctly guess on a lot of transactions. Yes?

greyskies

full member

Activity: 186

Merit: 100

Remember at all times to compare the methodology of our approach with DRK.

AlexGR

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1049

Quote from: KimmyF on June 03, 2014, 12:23:52 PM

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 11:16:24 AM

Teka, can you just delete anything Chaeplin has to say. He can PM atcsecure if he wishes to actually prove his claims but I don't think there is any reason to allow him to continue to toss FUD grenades around the thread.

No, delete nothing!
Just remind Cheaplin about this post he made today: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7109580 (help Dev.)

For now it looks to me he just scanned a couple of next blocks & combined some deposits till they added up to the original sum - 2x fee on the same address.

But (just for now) there could be a link we are missing, learn first & talk. We all have our own way, lets respect each other

When there is a process, no matter what it is, it can the be scripted.

When it's scripted you can have a block explorer that takes the obfuscated transactions, processes them with a script and then makes them ...transparent with probabilities like 50-100% this went from A to B.

When this happens, coin is DOA.

But it will also be DOA if it's based on trusting the nodes to not steal.

Btw if multiple mixing occurs, with transactions splitting 5-10 times all over the place it will also be DOA due to scaling issues. You don't want half a megabyte transactions for moving around 1 XC. Not only would this be problematic but it can also be an attack vector against the blockchain itself (bloating it to FUBAR levels) in which someone will pay something like 1 btc in transaction fees and make the blockchain unusable in terms of size.

Grifftech

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

In response to what you posted, How can you tell? What method did you use to determine your end result? Post this so the community can see and verify its repeatability.

cryptodaknight

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Love this coin, keep up the great work developers. Not many coins I'd invest in, but gotta say this one is great.

qawzsx

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

NOT FUD! FACTS!

Quote from: getmining.info on June 03, 2014, 12:40:57 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

It's al-right mate, you did a good job. Loads of people here are a bit too quick.

He did a good job about what?
Seem you don't get what the test is about...

Show me that the transaction can be traced to an address, don't lookup to the address in a blockchain with few transactions, and guess the transaction based on the transferred amount and on the time.

That's just stupid...

He did no job...just some stupid FUD

Its no point in being able to guess an address when there are so few transactions, if you're not able to do so when the blockchain will contain lots of transactions...which will make tracing impossible.

Its like saying ... "yo test this car for me...it does not have all the wheels now, but it will have them..."
And the tester say ... "well, the car will not move...the idea of a car its flawed..."

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

Since you did get the first one right I will send the 50XC I said I would. Please post your XC addy.

getmining.info

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: chaeplin on June 03, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

It's al-right mate, you did a good job. Loads of people here are a bit too quick.

chaeplin

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

To XC community people.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7112753

I should learn more english.

KimmyF

sr. member

Activity: 978

Merit: 250

Quote from: Teka on June 03, 2014, 12:27:07 PM

Quote from: KimmyF on June 03, 2014, 12:23:52 PM

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 11:16:24 AM

Teka, can you just delete anything Chaeplin has to say. He can PM atcsecure if he wishes to actually prove his claims but I don't think there is any reason to allow him to continue to toss FUD grenades around the thread.

No, delete nothing!
Just remind Cheaplin about this post he made today: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7109580 (help Dev.)

For now it looks to me he just scanned a couple of next blocks & combined some deposits till they added up to the original sum - 2x fee on the same address.

But (just for now) there could be a link we are missing, learn first & talk. We all have our own way, lets respect each other

I said that if his post is constructive it will stay.

Some (if not most) people will learn you new things by explaining them to you, some will push you to find the solution yourself.
Second way is better imo

Teka

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: KimmyF on June 03, 2014, 12:23:52 PM

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 11:16:24 AM

Teka, can you just delete anything Chaeplin has to say. He can PM atcsecure if he wishes to actually prove his claims but I don't think there is any reason to allow him to continue to toss FUD grenades around the thread.

No, delete nothing!
Just remind Cheaplin about this post he made today: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7109580 (help Dev.)

For now it looks to me he just scanned a couple of next blocks & combined some deposits till they added up to the original sum - 2x fee on the same address.

But (just for now) there could be a link we are missing, learn first & talk. We all have our own way, lets respect each other

I said that if his post is constructive it will stay.

KimmyF

sr. member

Activity: 978

Merit: 250

Quote from: Grifftech on June 03, 2014, 11:16:24 AM

Teka, can you just delete anything Chaeplin has to say. He can PM atcsecure if he wishes to actually prove his claims but I don't think there is any reason to allow him to continue to toss FUD grenades around the thread.

No, delete nothing!
Just remind Cheaplin about this post he made today: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7109580 (help Dev.)

For now it looks to me he just scanned a couple of next blocks & combined some deposits till they added up to the original sum - 2x fee on the same address.

But (just for now) there could be a link we are missing, learn first & talk. We all have our own way, lets respect each other

nioccoin

member

Activity: 101

Merit: 10

Quote from: JesstersDead on June 03, 2014, 11:56:57 AM

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 11:53:08 AM

Quote from: JesstersDead on June 03, 2014, 11:49:33 AM

Quote from: qawzsx on June 03, 2014, 11:46:08 AM

Quote from: JesstersDead on June 03, 2014, 11:39:35 AM

Guys, Chaeplin did in fact find the sender address. Whether he wants to share his process or not, that point cannot be refuted. It would be nice if he did, but that is neither here nor there. Resorting to personal attacks is not going to change anything besides making you look childish. He did it, now the dev knows it can be done, and he can find a solution. End of story.

Do you even understand that he just waited in the block explorer for an address to receive that amount?

That's just stupid. There are too few transactions for the moment.

Of course I do...

BUT, the community asked for the test. Even the dev put him up to it. If everyone knows how he did it, why give two shits whether he explains it or not? I don't see how arguing, whining, or complaining about it is advancing the discussion in the slightest.

The idea is to test if it can be tracked, not guessed...lol

That's why he tested it in a stupid way

He guessed.... what's your point. If you guess on a test and get it correct. It is no less correct. At this point you are criticizing the process, not the outcome. Which again, does nothing to further the discussion since everyone appears to already know the means why which he came to his answer.

The point isn't so much whether it is correct or not, but if it's repeatable, and under what conditions. Guesses may be correct, but they aren't reliable. If they were, vegas wouldn't be there.

Testing is retesting. To test a guess, you need the methodology. If the methodology is replicable, then you should be able to repeat the guess several times, and at that point it ceases to become a guess.

Topic: [XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos - page 1442. (Read 1484248 times)