Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1004. (Read 4671924 times)

About 50% of this post makes good sense and about 50% of it is straw men like claiming that corporate code sucks because of the big budget (I didn't say that). Corporate code often sucks despite the big budget. It gets done faster in part because of the big budget (also the problems being solved are often pre-selected to be solvable in a commercially-useful time period, though not always).

Anyway, I'm not sure why anyone should be interested in your opinion. I pretty much agree with code, donate or STFU. A lot of what you are saying is correct, but as far as I can tell, none of it is actually useful.

So, it would be good to put http://moneroblocks.eu/ in the OP instead of ChainRadar. Also, it could be putted at Monero's official websit, because there's no way to find any block explorer at it.

The whole blockchain in memory issue is stupid as hell to begin with. What the monero team is doing to fix this seems pretty useful, but the fact this is even a thing is ridiculous (yes, not monero team's fault, but the delays are decreasing the utility of this coin as the blockchain grows larger and becomes less intuitive to use).

Pointing all of this out is supposed to be offensive and every developer on the team should be able to say "yeah its true we suck at delivering on time and wow my dog/kid/wife/government-imposed-travel-restriction did prevent me from moving to San Francisco and earning $250,000/yr" instead of having literally any other excuse

I mean unless I said something false, which I haven't (but I am open to counterpoints). Nothing I said belittles what the devs are doing, it more so criticizes everyone trying to debate about how to pay the devs pennies, when in reality, that isn't possible until people start talking about real sources of money.

Every point and counterpoint on this subject I've seen has been filled with conjecture "corporate code sucks because of the big budget" what? no. "software engineers make 4000/eur a month" what? no. "you're BOTH RIGHT, here is this cutting edge strategy to pay by lines of code while factoring in that less code is probably more valuable!" what the hell?

The only thing the Monero project has going for it is that it is managed better than other cryptocurrency projects, which is a bar so fucking low it isn't even worth talking about. THAT IS NOT A BRAGGING POINT.

You completely miss the point and why complains about slow development and/or missed dead lines is so insulting and anyone doing so is a troll, this is an opensource project, Monero is not a company. Devs are doing all from their own pocket... help with code, donate or STFU.

This is not a get rich quick scheme. Monero already works, everything else is a luxury.

You (and wiki) make good points about why lines of code is a terrible metric for individual work items or individual developers, but as an aggregate it isn't too bad.

Click through the above page to COCOMO and look at the basic model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COCOMO

Let's assume "semi-detached" project (though there is certainly a credible argument that the more complex "embedded" model might be a better fit)

Using the numbers give there, and fluffypony's 22k SLOC number, we get:

3.0 (22^1.12) = 95 person-months
2.5 (95^0.35) = 12 months elapsed
95/12 = 8 ideal team size

This is fairly close to reality, although when you consider that most everyone is working part time to very part time for little to no pay I think we are doing quite well here. Again recognizing that everything is estimates-of-estimates and necessarily just a very broad brush.

You could do similar estimates with the more complex models but I doubt that is meaningful given the huge uncertainties about the whole thing.

You completely miss the point and why complains about slow development and/or missed dead lines is so insulting and anyone doing so is a troll, this is an opensource project, Monero is not a company. Devs are doing all from their own pocket... help with code, donate or STFU.

This is not a get rich quick scheme. Monero already works, everything else is a luxury.

look guys, you aren't going to get anywhere trying to pay software engineers in water rations from your village in bumfuckistan

Nobody pays anybody in lines of code

"Good coders" don't continue to live in places that pay 4000 euros a month, or 6000 euros a month, or 8000 euros a month, they all go to NY and SF and make way more than that, in U.S.DOLLARS, and everyone else is a subpar coder and/or preoccupied with the exact same reason that they can't go live in NY and SF

your poor cryptocurrency economy is going to stay poor as it will not be able to attract talent, there will be a continual brain drain from software engineers every time they see some 0.5 XMR bounty that some schmuck says "but it will be worth more in the future"

EVERY schmuck is trying to get software engineers to work for a stake in something greater, EVEN THE COMPANIES THAT ARE PAYING 200,000 USD PER YEAR ARE ALSO PAYING IN SHARES, OPTIONS, AND OTHER ASSETS POTENTIALLY WORTH MORE IN THE FUTURE, which is by the way over 16500 a month or 15000 eur/month

the database merge was coming soon since December 2014.

look guys, you aren't going to get anywhere trying to pay software engineers in water rations from your village in bumfuckistan

Nobody pays anybody in lines of code

"Good coders" don't continue to live in places that pay 4000 euros a month, or 6000 euros a month, or 8000 euros a month, they all go to NY and SF and make way more than that, in U.S.DOLLARS, and everyone else is a subpar coder and/or preoccupied with the exact same reason that they can't go live in NY and SF

your poor cryptocurrency economy is going to stay poor as it will not be able to attract talent, there will be a continual brain drain from software engineers every time they see some 0.5 XMR bounty that some schmuck says "but it will be worth more in the future"

EVERY schmuck is trying to get software engineers to work for a stake in something greater, EVEN THE COMPANIES THAT ARE PAYING 200,000 USD PER YEAR ARE ALSO PAYING IN SHARES, OPTIONS, AND OTHER ASSETS POTENTIALLY WORTH MORE IN THE FUTURE

the database merge was coming soon since December 2014.

Monero Price sudden downtrending. What's happening? 

What is your agenda? Do you want more FUD so you can buy lower? I'll keep calling out trolls and the liars.
 

Freedom of speech? This is not a moderated thread, its inherently free to speech.

To the trolls and wannabe programers in here, after you didn't know it better you should perhaps take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code

Fluffypony posted something about the upcoming crowdfunding function of the forum recently, which is very close to this (you can not only sponsor specific features/projects, but also propose your own). I don't have a link to it but if someone has that handy go ahead and reply.

We've been working on adding some needed functionality to the forum, and our next major task we're going to tackle is the funding system. The idea is:

1. Users / developers / anyone will pitch an idea in the Ideas section of the forum. This is already happening.

2. After some discussion it will be moved by one of the administrators (currently the Core Team only, but that would change in future) to the Open Tasks section of the forum. No tasks have been moved as yet.

3. Developers (including the core team, and initially probably only the core team for simplicity) will pitch against each of these open tasks. Later on I would expect that there would be more people / teams pitching against tasks, and the most competent / available / reasonably priced will be the one the community will veer towards.

4. Once the developer / team has been selected to complete the task it moves to the Funding Required section of the forum, and it is opened for funding.

5. Funding will be to a core team controlled address with a payment ID for that particular project/task, and there will be a funding progress bar. This information will be mirrored over to a funding page on the website that shows the funding progress per project/task.

6. When funding reaches 70% (for smaller tasks) or 30% (for larger and longer tasks) it goes into the Work in Progress section and work begins.

7. Funds are dispensed by the core team on a regular basis and only if there is actual progress / commits / whatever, so it doesn't go into a black hole.

Advantages of this approach:

- the core team's oversight role can eventually be replaced by a group selected from the community at large, so as not to have a stranglehold over things

- the core team's escrow role can eventually be replaced by a multi-sig system (2-of-3) where the signatories are the core team, the oversight group, and the recipient, so the recipient can't spend those raised funds without the involvement of one of the other 2 signatories

- this isn't limited to dev tasks, and things like "fly David Latapie to speak at a conference" or lobbying or PR or advertising can all have tasks created and funded

- funding is direct and specific to tasks instead of going into a big black hole and hoping for the best

We expect this system will still take us another short while before we can put it live, but we're already crunching away at the functionality for it (and this also further emphasises why the forum couldn't just be SMF with a theme;) )

My OT two moneros.

Making this big a deal about ignoring trolls is harmful to our image and makes us look intolerant.  People can use the ignore function independently.

Fighting with trolls is often not worth it.  But keeping a blacklist seems a little heavy handed.

Ignore trolls.  Or not... Freedom of speech is good.  As well as freedom to ignore.
  

So for the alleged 1.4mn for XMR's work, you'd get more than 25 Peter Todds for a year (?). Again something doesn't compute.

Fluffypony posted something about the upcoming crowdfunding function of the forum recently, which is very close to this (you can not only sponsor specific features/projects, but also propose your own). I don't have a link to it but if someone has that handy go ahead and reply.

So with the recent news of the bitcoin foundation etc, I thought, why not make a "decentralized" bounty fund for developing Monero. Companies/Individuals would put in $ to the fund periodically, say every 6 months. There would need to be a minimum threshold, so maybe $(X) amount every 6 months, and developers can claim (X) amount of $ as their paycheck with the consensus of the community or miners, etc. The companies or individuals that put in $ towards the fund would have their names in a record book, like a book dedicated towards those that helped monero succeed via donations to pay for development.