[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1076.

canth

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Quote from: onemorexmr on March 15, 2015, 05:37:56 PM

Quote from: smooth on March 15, 2015, 05:34:36 PM

I'd think it would be wise to get some sort of p2p pool going with smart mining. The chances of finding a block solo with a small hash rate are such that people may be tempted not to bother.

The whole point of smart mining is that it isn't something people bother with at all. It just happens, and it is unobtrusive enough there is no reason for people to turn it off. It's just part of how the software works, like nearly every p2p system in existence with the exception of bitcoin.

Pool or no pool, a single computer will yield next to nothing and there is no reason for people, individually, to bother. This is not about "being a miner" it is about people who aren't miners doing mining.

@smooth i think you are right about that everybody should mine and if that would be the case they wouldn't / shouldn't really care.

neverthless i hope for a p2pool implementation (best would be directly inside reference client) as i have the hope that it could lead to more and smaller poolers.
[/quote]

I mine with a single quadcore CPU and Radeon 7970 - probably generates 1 XMR every 2 days and costs me more than it would to buy them. Just like running SETI@Home or other distributed computing projects, not all actions need be profit motivated although I acknowledge that the network effects are significantly higher for those that are.

onemorexmr

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Quote from: smooth on March 15, 2015, 05:34:36 PM

I'd think it would be wise to get some sort of p2p pool going with smart mining. The chances of finding a block solo with a small hash rate are such that people may be tempted not to bother.

The whole point of smart mining is that it isn't something people bother with at all. It just happens, and it is unobtrusive enough there is no reason for people to turn it off. It's just part of how the software works, like nearly every p2p system in existence with the exception of bitcoin.

Pool or no pool, a single computer will yield next to nothing and there is no reason for people, individually, to bother. This is not about "being a miner" it is about people who aren't miners doing mining.
[/quote]

@smooth i think you are right about that everybody should mine and if that would be the case they wouldn't / shouldn't really care.

neverthless i hope for a p2pool implementation (best would be directly inside reference client) as i have the hope that it could lead to more and smaller poolers.

smooth

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Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 05:22:53 PM

Quote from: smooth on March 15, 2015, 05:08:27 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 05:00:07 PM

If you liken it to a lottery etc, is the assumption then that smart mining will be solo and not as part of a p2p pool?

Initially sure because there is no p2p pool. If a p2p pool gets developed then smart mining can certainly support that. There is another novel solution that gives something of the best of both worlds (currently nonexistent in any coin) but that certainly won't show up right away either.

I'd think it would be wise to get some sort of p2p pool going with smart mining. The chances of finding a block solo with a small hash rate are such that people may be tempted not to bother.

The whole point of smart mining is that it isn't something people bother with at all. It just happens, and it is unobtrusive enough there is no reason for people to turn it off. It's just part of how the software works, like nearly every p2p system in existence with the exception of bitcoin.

Pool or no pool, a single computer will yield next to nothing and there is no reason for people, individually, to bother. This is not about "being a miner" it is about harnessing the power of (many) people who aren't miners doing mining.

dreamspark

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Quote from: smooth on March 15, 2015, 05:08:27 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 05:00:07 PM

If you liken it to a lottery etc, is the assumption then that smart mining will be solo and not as part of a p2p pool?

Initially sure because there is no p2p pool. If a p2p pool gets developed then smart mining can certainly support that. There is another novel solution that gives something of the best of both worlds (currently nonexistent in any coin) but that certainly won't show up right away either.

I'd think it would be wise to get some sort of p2p pool going with smart mining. The chances of finding a block solo with a small hash rate are such that people may be tempted not to bother.

smooth

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Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 05:00:07 PM

If you liken it to a lottery etc, is the assumption then that smart mining will be solo and not as part of a p2p pool?

Initially sure because there is no p2p pool. If a p2p pool gets developed then smart mining can certainly support that. There is another novel solution that gives something of the best of both worlds (currently nonexistent in any coin) but that certainly won't show up right away either.

Quote

Your 20 h/s or whatever you are likely to achieve giving away a small portion of your cpu power should be somewhat relative to the value of the coin then and now. Now your 20 H/s will get you more of a lower value coin and in the future will get you less of a higher value coin.

Exactly. BTW, most modern CPUs configured properly (and part of smart mining will be to make sure everything is as close to properly configured as possible automatically) are well above 20 h/s, more like 60-200+. But that doesn't change anything qualititively.

dreamspark

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Quote from: smooth on March 15, 2015, 04:49:38 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:36:45 PM

Quote from: nakaone on March 15, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

I think the most promising thing with smart mining is, besides decentralization, that you open the club - you do not neccessarily need to buy in any more to become a member, I think this will dramatically increase the user base.

While this is true, your not really going to see much of an income of coins with smart mining due to the low hash rate you will have. This will be an even smaller % of the network as it gets more hash rate overall.

Depends on the value of the coin. It is a bit of a contradiction to assume the hash rate grows a lot and the coin value doesn't. You won't ever get steady income that is true, but it can become a potentially significant lottery/raffle/sweepstakes.

On the contrary, as I said above the hash rate needs to grow to support a higher value coin where there is then an economic incentive to attack it and to acquire a significant portion of the current hash rate for a short period of time is fairly cheap. If you liken it to a lottery etc, is the assumption then that smart mining will be solo and not as part of a p2p pool? Your 20 h/s or whatever you are likely to achieve giving away a small portion of your cpu power should be somewhat relative to the value of the coin then and now. Now your 20 H/s will get you more of a lower value coin and in the future will get you less of a higher value coin.

smooth

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Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:36:45 PM

Quote from: nakaone on March 15, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

I think the most promising thing with smart mining is, besides decentralization, that you open the club - you do not neccessarily need to buy in any more to become a member, I think this will dramatically increase the user base.

While this is true, your not really going to see much of an income of coins with smart mining due to the low hash rate you will have. This will be an even smaller % of the network as it gets more hash rate overall.

Depends on the value of the coin. It is a bit of a contradiction to assume the hash rate grows a lot and the coin value doesn't. You won't ever get steady income that is true, but it can become a potentially significant lottery/raffle/sweepstakes.

dreamspark

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Quote from: nakaone on March 15, 2015, 04:43:40 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:36:45 PM

Quote from: nakaone on March 15, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

I think the most promising thing with smart mining is, besides decentralization, that you open the club - you do not neccessarily need to buy in any more to become a member, I think this will dramatically increase the user base.

While this is true, your not really going to see much of an income of coins with smart mining due to the low hash rate you will have. This will be an even smaller % of the network as it gets more hash rate overall.

there was this huge discussion over here that mining should never make sense in economic terms aka it should always be ev- without intertemporal aspects.

more importantly than the economic aspect is that it should be possible - which is at this point for almost everyone not possible with btc.

I completely agree, I don't mean that smart mining is going to make you money over electricity costs just that it will likely make you dust if the hashrate was to seriously increase which it really needs to to secure the network, its still *fairly* cheap to gain a significant amount of hashing power at the moment.

nakaone

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Activity: 742

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Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:36:45 PM

Quote from: nakaone on March 15, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

I think the most promising thing with smart mining is, besides decentralization, that you open the club - you do not neccessarily need to buy in any more to become a member, I think this will dramatically increase the user base.

While this is true, your not really going to see much of an income of coins with smart mining due to the low hash rate you will have. This will be an even smaller % of the network as it gets more hash rate overall.

there was this huge discussion over here that mining should never make sense in economic terms aka it should always be ev- without intertemporal aspects.

more importantly than the economic aspect is that it should be possible - which is at this point for almost everyone not possible with btc.

dreamspark

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: nakaone on March 15, 2015, 04:17:41 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

I think the most promising thing with smart mining is, besides decentralization, that you open the club - you do not neccessarily need to buy in any more to become a member, I think this will dramatically increase the user base.

While this is true, your not really going to see much of an income of coins with smart mining due to the low hash rate you will have. This will be an even smaller % of the network as it gets more hash rate overall.

Hueristic

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: primer- on March 15, 2015, 04:24:45 PM

...

We've been waiting for the DB/GUI for almost a year. Smart mining is not going to happen anytime soon, we are talking years here...
Unless more competent developers take over...

And this is why I have him on ignore. Don't even bother quoting him.

Quote from: equipoise on March 15, 2015, 02:41:36 PM

Anyone took this free class? Surveillance Law - Stanford University

LOL, Must enable java script. Hah why so they can surveill?

dreamspark

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Quote from: primer- on March 15, 2015, 04:24:45 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on March 15, 2015, 04:20:59 PM

Quote from: primer- on March 15, 2015, 04:18:02 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

Well it's not going to happen, the smart mining idea was abandoned.

Do you know something we don't? It is still in the development goals (even on currently in development) -> http://getmonero.org/design-goals/

We've been waiting for the DB/GUI for almost a year. Smart mining is not going to happen anytime soon, we are talking years here...
Unless more competent developers take over...

Well DB is here, you can use it yourself right now...

primer-

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Quote from: dEBRUYNE on March 15, 2015, 04:20:59 PM

Quote from: primer- on March 15, 2015, 04:18:02 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

Well it's not going to happen, the smart mining idea was abandoned.

Do you know something we don't? It is still in the development goals (even on currently in development) -> http://getmonero.org/design-goals/

We've been waiting for the DB/GUI for almost a year. Smart mining is not going to happen anytime soon, we are talking years here...
Unless more competent developers take over...

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: primer- on March 15, 2015, 04:18:02 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

Well it's not going to happen, the smart mining idea was abandoned.

Do you know something we don't? It is still in the development goals (even on currently in development) -> http://getmonero.org/design-goals/

EDIT: Another poll -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/your-favorite-cryptonote-coin-991637

primer-

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Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

Well it's not going to happen, the smart mining idea was abandoned.

nakaone

hero member

Activity: 742

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Quote from: dreamspark on March 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

I think the most promising thing with smart mining is, besides decentralization, that you open the club - you do not neccessarily need to buy in any more to become a member, I think this will dramatically increase the user base.

dreamspark

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

One of the things I'm looking forward to with smart mining is seeing what sort of increase we may get when it is released. It will give a real sense of how many people are actually using XMR. People using it locally will be fairly likely to mine to at least support the network. Speculators who keep their coins on exchanges and never really plan on using it as a currency, not so much.

equipoise

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Monero (XMR) - secure, private, untraceable

Anyone took this free class? Surveillance Law - Stanford University

nachoig

sr. member

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fluffypony, just a suggestion about MyMonero: you could submit it at Chrome Web Store and Firefox Marketplace.

pa

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Quote from: dEBRUYNE on March 15, 2015, 09:36:07 AM

Quote from: GingerAle on March 15, 2015, 07:53:59 AM

Quote from: Globb0 on March 15, 2015, 07:32:11 AM

What is it ?

Smart miner will make it so the bitmonerod miner runs whenever your PC is inactive - similar to how BOINC works (BOINC is a distributed computing network for science and other computation heavy things. if you remember SETI@home, its the same concept). The idea is that mining will become more of a passive thing for some people and it won't interfere with everyday computer use - won't eat up system resources.

Adding this post from smooth to your comment:

Quote from: smooth on May 21, 2014, 06:11:24 PM

Most of the previous "CPU only" coins are really scams and the developers already have GPU miner or know how to write one. There are a very few exceptions, almost certainly including this one.

I don't expect a really dominant GPU miner any time soon, maybe ever. GPUs are just computers though, so it is certainly possible to mine this on a GPU, and there probably will be a some GPU miner, but won't be so much faster as to put small scale CPU miners out of business (probably -- absent some unknown algorithmic flaw).

Everyone focuses on botnets because it has been so long since regular users were able to effectively mine a coin (due to every coin rapidly going high end GPU and ASIC) that the idea that "users" could vastly outnumber "miners" (botnet or otherwise) isn't even on the radar.

The vision here is a wallet that asks you when you want to install: "Do you want to devote some of you CPU power to help secure the network. You will be eligible to receive free coins as a reward (recommended) [check box]." Get millions of users doing that and it will drive down the value of mining to where neither botnets nor professional/industrial miners will bother, and Satoshi's original vision of a true p2p currency will be realized.

It looks like 21e6 is thinking along these lines using ASICs: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2z1a2q/what_is_21_inc_developing/cpewin0

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1076. (Read 4671910 times)