[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1327.

smooth

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Quote from: Eastwind on October 24, 2014, 02:42:34 AM

If they are the believers, they can get more XMR by buying instead of mining it. Maybe they just want to secure the network, or the miners' mining cost is very low, such as $0.05/kWh electricity price.

It is somewhat profitable to CPU mine at 0.07 USD/kwh, so actually quite profitable at 0.05 or lower. This is assuming a typical mid-high end desktop CPU. There are some more power-efficient CPUs but they are less common.

GPU mining is a bit more power-efficient and therefore more profitable than CPU mining, although there are probably some more profitable coins to GPU mine if you are purely maximizing profit and don't care what you mine.

xulescu

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Quote from: smooth on October 24, 2014, 03:13:25 AM

Quote from: xulescu on October 24, 2014, 02:36:07 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 24, 2014, 02:21:19 AM

Quote from: xulescu on October 24, 2014, 02:09:21 AM

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

Pick two points t1 < t2 at some distance apart such that, for example, cap(t1) = cap(t2) and price(t1) < price(t2), or, for example, price(t1) = price(t2) and cap(t1) > cap(t2). These pairs are not hard to find visually in the DRK and XC charts, but they do not exist in the XMR chart.

If it holds that cap(t) = price(t) * emission(t) for any t, then in both cases above it follows that emission(t1) > emission(t2) for some t1 < t2.

In other words, emission somehow decreased in time. That's why I wonder, did coins disappear by protocol??

Market cap is measured in USD, price in BTC.

Oh

/facepalm

smooth

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Quote from: xulescu on October 24, 2014, 02:36:07 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 24, 2014, 02:21:19 AM

Quote from: xulescu on October 24, 2014, 02:09:21 AM

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

Pick two points t1 < t2 at some distance apart such that, for example, cap(t1) = cap(t2) and price(t1) < price(t2), or, for example, price(t1) = price(t2) and cap(t1) > cap(t2). These pairs are not hard to find visually in the DRK and XC charts, but they do not exist in the XMR chart.

If it holds that cap(t) = price(t) * emission(t) for any t, then in both cases above it follows that emission(t1) > emission(t2) for some t1 < t2.

In other words, emission somehow decreased in time. That's why I wonder, did coins disappear by protocol??

Market cap is measured in USD, price in BTC.

Eastwind

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Quote from: superresistant on October 24, 2014, 02:39:32 AM

Quote from: Eastwind on October 24, 2014, 02:35:32 AM

Quote from: superresistant on October 24, 2014, 02:33:50 AM

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

The price is low, but the hash rate is similar to the past. So who is mining with profit?

I think Monero mining is similar to Bitcoin mining.
There are believers that mine whatever it cost.
Those believers expect the price to be so much higher tomorrow that it doesn't matter the today profitability.
They don't mine other shitcoins because they are shitcoins.

If they are the believers, they can get more XMR by buying instead of mining it. Maybe they just want to secure the network, or the miners' mining cost is very low, such as $0.05/kWh electricity price.

superresistant

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Quote from: Eastwind on October 24, 2014, 02:35:32 AM

Quote from: superresistant on October 24, 2014, 02:33:50 AM

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

The price is low, but the hash rate is similar to the past. So who is mining with profit?

I think Monero mining is similar to Bitcoin mining.
There are believers that mine whatever it cost.
Those believers expect the price to be so much higher tomorrow that it doesn't matter the today profitability.
They don't mine other shitcoins because they are shitcoins.

xulescu

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Quote from: smooth on October 24, 2014, 02:21:19 AM

Quote from: xulescu on October 24, 2014, 02:09:21 AM

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

Pick two points t1 < t2 at some distance apart such that, for example, cap(t1) = cap(t2) and price(t1) < price(t2), or, for example, price(t1) = price(t2) and cap(t1) > cap(t2). These pairs are not hard to find visually in the DRK and XC charts, but they do not exist in the XMR chart.

If it holds that cap(t) = price(t) * emission(t) for any t, then in both cases above it follows that emission(t1) > emission(t2) for some t1 < t2.

In other words, emission somehow decreased in time. That's why I wonder, did coins disappear by protocol??

Eastwind

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Quote from: superresistant on October 24, 2014, 02:33:50 AM

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

The price is low, but the hash rate is similar to the past. So who is mining with profit?

superresistant

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Quote from: novag on October 24, 2014, 02:17:14 AM

Who dump? for new pump?

There are 2 reasons to dump :
- creating a panic sell to get a lot of cheap coins
- someone needs money fast and cannot wait

A dump is only temporary. What goes up must go down and what goes down must go up.
Patience is the key to make profit in cryptocurrency.

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

smooth

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Quote from: xulescu on October 24, 2014, 02:09:21 AM

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

novag

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novag

Who dump? for new pump?

xulescu

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Quote from: rdnkjdi on October 23, 2014, 11:12:20 PM

...

There is something wrong with the charts

Monero chart looks as expected, where the market cap grows compared to the price in time because the number of coins emitted increases in time.

Darkcoin chart, in the right half of the chart, displays the market cap shrinking faster than the price. Did the total emission decrease??

XCurrency chart. Same comment, valid for the entirely of the chart. Did XCs disappear from circulation??

smooth

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Quote from: generalizethis on October 24, 2014, 01:14:26 AM

Thank you, Smooth. Hopefully that shuts him up for awhile.

I think you will find you can't really win with FUDsters. They generally have an agenda, either emotional attachment to some position or a commercial interest or both, and will shift between different arguments as necessary to keep going.

Hash rate too high? Botnet!

Hash rate too low? Insecure!

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: smooth on October 24, 2014, 01:06:03 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on October 24, 2014, 12:45:09 AM

comment replyELI5: Sidechains
from x798 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent just now
show parent

"That's not FUD, the majority of the Monero hashrate is a botnet or two, you can't rationalize tens of thousands of GPUs mining a coin most people haven't heard of. The Monero block chain was actually attacked using a bug in the merkle tree type formation it used, an obscure hangover from Bytecoin. I'd call that a problem, wouldn't you?
the anonymity is tested
By who? I doubt anybody is really qualified to say if ring signatures can support anything. There's not even any proof that ECDSA itself is secure."

Can anyone discredit this statement? Don't have enough working knowledge to confirm or dismiss. Undecided

Here's the link:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k5jdg/eli5_sidechains/

Try pointing out that it isn't responsive to the question of whether Monero/Cryptonote is innovative.

It is shifting the subject to whether the technology is immature. Well, yeah, obviously anything innovative is immature.

There are a whole lot of specifics to discredit there, it is all speculation and frankly FUD, as you said.

Where is the actual evidence backing up any of the claims (well other than that a bug was exploited -- that is true, and the bug is fixed)?

I do believe there are botnets but I don't believe they are nearly as much of the hashrate as FUDsters speculate, simply because mining is still profitable for a lot of people (not with high electricity rates). As long as mining is profitable, people will do it, especially in the current environment when it is hard to find anything you can mine profitably.

If botnets were rampant the hash rate would be even higher and mining profit would be drive down to nearly nothing. It isn't.

Thank you, Smooth. Hopefully that shuts him up for awhile.

smooth

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Quote from: generalizethis on October 24, 2014, 12:45:09 AM

comment replyELI5: Sidechains
from x798 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent just now
show parent

"That's not FUD, the majority of the Monero hashrate is a botnet or two, you can't rationalize tens of thousands of GPUs mining a coin most people haven't heard of. The Monero block chain was actually attacked using a bug in the merkle tree type formation it used, an obscure hangover from Bytecoin. I'd call that a problem, wouldn't you?
the anonymity is tested
By who? I doubt anybody is really qualified to say if ring signatures can support anything. There's not even any proof that ECDSA itself is secure."

Can anyone discredit this statement? Don't have enough working knowledge to confirm or dismiss. Undecided

Here's the link:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k5jdg/eli5_sidechains/

Try pointing out that it isn't responsive to the question of whether Monero/Cryptonote is innovative.

It is shifting the subject to whether the technology is immature. Well, yeah, obviously anything innovative is immature.

There are (EDIT: not) a whole lot of specifics to discredit there, it is all speculation and frankly FUD, as you said.

Where is the actual evidence backing up any of the claims (well other than that a bug was exploited -- that is true, and the bug is fixed)?

I do believe there are botnets but I don't believe they are nearly as much of the hashrate as FUDsters speculate, simply because mining is still profitable for a lot of people (not with high electricity rates). As long as mining is profitable, people will do it, especially in the current environment when it is hard to find anything you can mine profitably.

If botnets were rampant the hash rate would be even higher and mining profit would be driven down to nearly nothing. It isn't.

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

comment replyELI5: Sidechains
from x798 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent just now
show parent

"That's not FUD, the majority of the Monero hashrate is a botnet or two, you can't rationalize tens of thousands of GPUs mining a coin most people haven't heard of. The Monero block chain was actually attacked using a bug in the merkle tree type formation it used, an obscure hangover from Bytecoin. I'd call that a problem, wouldn't you?
the anonymity is tested
By who? I doubt anybody is really qualified to say if ring signatures can support anything. There's not even any proof that ECDSA itself is secure."

Can anyone discredit this statement? Don't have enough working knowledge to confirm or dismiss. Undecided

Here's the link:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k5jdg/eli5_sidechains/

rdnkjdi

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Quote

So, any expectation of when its going up again?

I think it could bleed out quite a bit more due to the coin release schedule. Too bad rptelias blocking us from real blood . .

Quote

Thanks for the answers... I'm going to read more as soon as I get home and made my mind.

Cheers.

Best of luck - hope you find what you're looking for Wink

KrLos

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Thanks for the answers... I'm going to read more as soon as I get home and made my mind.

Cheers.

Skele

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VocalPlatform.com

Quote from: rpietila on October 23, 2014, 11:26:46 PM

Quote from: rdnkjdi on October 23, 2014, 11:12:20 PM

Fair point. Perhaps my post should have read "If you look at coin emission - then pump and dump was the LAST thing in the world you would think of. Monero's early (first year or two) coin emission makes it almost impossible to pump as effectively as (most) other coins. The coin release schedule just wasn't built for a pump and dump.

Thanks, good interpretation, and nice charts. With the other coins, marketcap is now a fraction of the pump high, with Monero, it is down only 50%.

So, any expectation of when its going up again?

rpietila

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Quote from: rdnkjdi on October 23, 2014, 11:12:20 PM

Fair point. Perhaps my post should have read "If you look at coin emission - then pump and dump was the LAST thing in the world you would think of. Monero's early (first year or two) coin emission makes it almost impossible to pump as effectively as (most) other coins. The coin release schedule just wasn't built for a pump and dump.

Thanks, good interpretation, and nice charts. With the other coins, marketcap is now a fraction of the pump high, with Monero, it is down only 50%.

rdnkjdi

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Quote from: TooDumbForBitcoin on October 23, 2014, 10:52:50 PM

Quote from: surfer43 on October 23, 2014, 08:02:57 PM

A "pump and dump" is a coin that has been pumped and dumped. Monero has increased in price from 0.0002 BTC to just under 0.01 BTC, and has since fallen to just above 0.002 BTC. A 5000% increase qualifies as a "pump" and a 80% decrease qualifies as a "dump". If Monero is not a pump and dump, then most coins are not pump and dumps so what's your point?

The point is that you, smurfer43, are an asshole.

Can we please. PLEASE not resort to name calling? I'm sick of the strict battlelines between coins and groups that are hostile to even the pretense of objectivity.

Fair point. Perhaps my post should have read "If you look at coin emission - then pump and dump was the LAST thing in the world you would think of. Monero's early (first year or two) coin emission makes it almost impossible to pump as effectively as (most) other coins. The coin release schedule just wasn't built for a pump and dump.

BBR's chart might look similar to moneros but it's f***** up atm. Look at volume over time. The inflation majorly discourages pumping. You'll get stuck out to dry if you try to pump because miners will just dump into you - too many moneros to effectively pump and be profitable at. There are other coins you'd do better to hype.

Just my interpretation

Monero chart.

Darkcoin chart.

XCurrency chart.

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1327. (Read 4671936 times)