Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1331. (Read 4671575 times)

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well.

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

I think the answer is no. First of all it is questionable whether you would really want to hold wealth long term on a sidechain. The security assumptions (even when it comes to things like network hash rate, but in other more fundamental respects as well) are questionable. It is more plausible you might want to use services or features on a side chain by moving your bitcoins there and then, relatively quickly, moving them back to the more secure main chain. For example, this might be be used for mixing, by moving your coins to a sidechain with ring signatures, transacting and then moving them back.

But this ends up being a lot like using a Bitcoin mixer, with many of the same issues such as simultaneity. For example, imagine you are making a donation to some controversial organization and you want to delink the bitcoins you are donating.

So you go ahead and move your coins to a ring-sig sidechain, move them around a few times, and then move them back. Unless other people are doing this at the same time, when you move your coins back to the main chain, you will get the same coins back that you started with.

Alternately, perhaps the organization wants to be all anonymous and stuff, so it publishes an address on the sidechain, and you donate to them there. They then withdraw the coins back to the main chain, and they get the exact Bitcoins you sent to the side chain.

Obviously if there are a few other people doing the transfers at the same time, there is a degree of mixing, but it is fairly limited.

I don't think a side chain with a specialized purpose can achieve the same degree of anonymity as a coin designed for that purpose, where the entire chain is being mixed and remixed continually. That is an emperical question though. It is possible that a Bitcoin side chain could get more usage and greater trust of its security for long term holdings than Monero will have. More usage would address the mixing issue to a some extent and trust in the security would address the need to constantly move coins back and forth (though there still may be a loss of network effect here). None of this is clear at all.

I also think it is possible the market may simply reject the notion of adopting the Bitcoin currency for everything. It will be an interesting experiment to decouple new features from using a different currency. We may well find that the reason for altcoins is not the features!

I believe that you missed the last missive: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9271342
They are working on the database. It's indeed slower than my expectations, but hey! they are not many devs, not that well-paid, so I cannot complain.
I really hope that DB will be finished this year.

And about GUI wallet, I think that the currently existing (3rd party) GUI wallets are considered "good enough" for now. I cannot tell, as for me simplewallet is already good enough.

I am very surprised to see Monero doing so badly, however I see no news until next year that could reverse this trend.

The GUI is planned for 2015 correct? And the database work? Has any progress been made?

Expecting a serious response to a serious question, but I get trolled. If you are looking to instill confidence in Monero this is not the way to go about it.

the price is down from BOTs

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

lol. What happened to CannabisCoin since last week? I no longer see it on the list.

I have to say though that there are a lot of assumptions and far too many maybes in there for me. Best of luck to you, Risto and the rest of the team.

2014-Oct-23 11:04:45.414355 bitmonero wallet v0.8.8.4-771b531
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.208800 Loaded wallet keys file, with public address: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.208800 file not found: xmr, starting with empty blockchain
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.208800 Opened wallet: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.599823 Starting refresh...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.681828 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.681828 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.703829 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.709829 Another try pull_blocks (try_count=0)...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.749831 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 Another try pull_blocks (try_count=1)...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.771833 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.771833 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.772833 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.772833 Another try pull_blocks (try_count=2)...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:358 pull_blocks failed, try_count=3
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.803834 Error: refresh failed: no connection to daemon. Please, make sure daemon is running. Blocks received: 0

2014-Oct-23 11:02:31.377688 [P2P1][188.2.54.196:18080 OUT]Sync data returned unknown top block: 272598 -> 272778 [180 blocks (0 days) behind]
SYNCHRONIZATION started
2014-Oct-23 11:03:24.909750 [P2P3][85.69.78.14:18080 OUT] SYNCHRONIZED OK
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.646826 [RPC0]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.710829 [RPC0]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 [RPC1]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.772833 [RPC0]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()

I think the answer is no. First of all it is questionable whether you would really want to hold wealth long term on a sidechain. The security assumptions (even when it comes to things like network hash rate, but in other more fundamental respects as well) are questionable. It is more plausible you might want to use services or features on a side chain by moving your bitcoins there and then, relatively quickly, moving them back to the more secure main chain. For example, this might be be used for mixing, by moving your coins to a sidechain with ring signatures, transacting and then moving them back.

But this ends up being a lot like using a Bitcoin mixer, with many of the same issues such as simultaneity. For example, imagine you are making a donation to some controversial organization and you want to delink the bitcoins you are donating.

So you go ahead and move your coins to a ring-sig sidechain, move them around a few times, and then move them back. Unless other people are doing this at the same time, when you move your coins back to the main chain, you will get the same coins back that you started with.

Alternately, perhaps the organization wants to be all anonymous and stuff, so it publishes an address on the sidechain, and you donate to them there. They then withdraw the coins back to the main chain, and they get the exact Bitcoins you sent to the side chain.

Obviously if there are a few other people doing the transfers at the same time, there is a degree of mixing, but it is fairly limited.

I don't think a side chain with a specialized purpose can achieve the same degree of anonymity as a coin designed for that purpose, where the entire chain is being mixed and remixed continually. That is an emperical question though. It is possible that a Bitcoin side chain could get more usage and greater trust of its security for long term holdings than Monero will have. More usage would address the mixing issue to a some extent and trust in the security would address the need to constantly move coins back and forth (though there still may be a loss of network effect here). None of this is clear at all.

I also think it is possible the market may simply reject the notion of adopting the Bitcoin currency for everything. It will be an interesting experiment to decouple new features from using a different currency. We may well find that the reason for altcoins is not the features!

you know monero is undervalued if

In the wake of http://www.blockstream.com/ essentially making sidechains an inevitability - what is the point of holding XMR now? Wont all of the privacy Monero offers be available within the bitcoin blockchain?

You can already build entire currencies ontop the Bitcoin protocol

-- Currently, no you cannot do that. In order to change something you would need a fork.

All side chains do, as another user suggests, is create a monopoly within Bitcoin, and would stop future innovation in cryptocurrencies.

-- Side chains allow for all of the innovation of an alt while remaining within the blockchain, so the only thing that is monopolized is the finite number of bitcoins (which is a defining feature of crypto imo). The innovation can still happen just as it would in a pure alt.

Side-Chains wouldnt matter. You can already build entire currencies ontop the Bitcoin protocol. All side chains do, as another user suggests, is create a monopoly within Bitcoin, and would stop future innovation in cryptocurrencies. That's why I believe side chains wouldn't be popular, people buy alts for a reason, and that's either for p/d, or the belief that their altcoin will eventually overthrow Bitcoin one day given it improves upon Bitcoins many faults.

Expecting a serious response to a serious question, but I get trolled. If you are looking to instill confidence in Monero this is not the way to go about it.