Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1652. (Read 4670972 times)

Quote from: Anon136 on July 13, 2014, 09:38:37 AM

So many people (including bitcointalk hero members and btc whales) saying they are buyers at this price but not bid support on the exchanges. I find this curious.

Buy Orders
Price   XMR   BTC
0.00240200   301.44639286   0.72407424
0.00240005   83.33159726   0.2
0.00240003   20.83307292   0.05
0.00240002   2054.5795685   4.93103206
0.00240001   500   1.200005
0.00240000   1658.80367081   3.98112881

There are 75 BTC against 89000 XMRs at Poloniex, divide 75/89000 = 0.0008, that's the average price buyers are willing to pay. Frankly, I don't see how the price can be 5x higher than its closest competitor Boolberry, both coins are technically equal. Even hero members are not bigger than the market and can't support the price indefinately.

Network effect, liquidity, first mover advantage. Monero is THE cryptonote currency. Everything else is altcoins. Why do you think bitcoin is worth 70 times more than litecoin?

Boolberry does not offer anything significantly better/different than monero.

If all it takes is to have a technically equal currency for it to be valued at 1:1 ratio then you also need to understand that all coins will be equally worthless due to unlimited inflation.

Come on, what network effect?! Bitcoin had years before altcoins, Monero and others launched about the same time, where is the advantage?

If that logic were sound than the value of both ought to be very close to zero because they are infinitely reproducible.

It might go pretty close to zero, emission has just started and will take years with Monero emitting twice as much as Boolberry or others.

You guys are just living in illusions

I agree about the Bitcoin network effect (although it's debateable that the latest bubble in November and perhaps the one in April, 2013 were spurred by Mt.Gox bots), but a network effect in Monero and first mover advantage? That's just silly.

arielbit

legendary

Activity: 3444

Merit: 1061

Quote from: birr on July 13, 2014, 09:22:49 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on July 13, 2014, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:34:19 AM

patience buyers...miners will mine for you..lets buy XMR at cheap prices.

lots of smart people and respected members here see the potential and in a way created a buying hype..but XMR is still not as user friendly as BTC and not as known to many people yet.

Well the trouble is a low value may cause new potential developers to lose interest. Or worst case even the current developers.

People. Please don't give up hope.

hmm that's bad..

this is out of XMR topic and a little bit funny for me..coz now i see the advantage of dashcoin Cheesy

quote from the OP of DSH:

Why mirror image is better than self sustained fork?
The reason is simple - costs. Self sustained forks demand a lot of development time, if you want to build a well maintained cryptocurrency. And if the network grows, the required development time is likely to grow too.
A simpler, and less costly way to maintain a network with high reliability is to create a ~~self mutating copy of~~ parasite on it. ~~Mutating copy~~ Parasite is a simple copy of the original source, mutating every time the original source mutates.

Even more - such a process can be automated!

FTFY

haha

if you want to destroy me-destroy yourself first! (parasite)

arielbit

legendary

Activity: 3444

Merit: 1061

Quote from: arielbit on July 13, 2014, 08:02:21 AM

Quote from: othe on July 13, 2014, 07:57:49 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on July 13, 2014, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: devphp on July 13, 2014, 08:03:58 AM

patience buyers...miners will mine for you..lets buy XMR at cheap prices.

lots of smart people and respected members here see the potential and in a way created a buying hype..but XMR is still not as user friendly as BTC and not as known to many people yet.

Well the trouble is a low value may cause new potential developers to lose interest. Or worst case even the current developers.

People. Please don't give up hope.

hmm that's bad..

this is out of XMR topic and a little bit funny for me..coz now i see the advantage of dashcoin Cheesy

quote from the OP of DSH:

Why mirror image is better than self sustained fork?
The reason is simple - costs. Self sustained forks demand a lot of development time, if you want to build a well maintained cryptocurrency. And if the network grows, the required development time is likely to grow too.
A simpler, and less costly way to maintain a network with high reliability is to create a self mutating copy of it. Mutating copy is a simple copy of the original source, mutating every time the original source mutates.

Even more - such a process can be automated!

Seriously? Relying on other people for development with that lame excuse?
So Bytecoin introduces some bug in purpose, dashcoin copies it automatically and destroys the network? Sounds really awesome...

yep that's why its funny..but solves the costs issue for development..bytecoin bug will affect them (bytecoin) first. bytecoin woudn't do that to themselves..i think so..

Dashcoin is a "shitcoin" for lack of a better word. Shitcoins may be pumped but eventually they all die due to lack of interest. They are usually created with the solo purpose of enriching the creator/early-adopter. It's pretty much the modern day form of a ponzi scheme.

Does it solve the cost of development? Certainly. But if all it takes is to copy/paste bitcoin/monero and have value is instantly created out of thin air then why not repeat this process a billion times? Quite simple: Unlimited inflation causes the coin to be worth zero.

yes you are right it is a shitcoin..but what i like in that shitcoin is an honest "yes i am a mirror/copy/clone and can be automated" whaallah zero dev cost..and saying hey bytecoin this is a mirror of you and no premine..and things can change in the future for better or worse.

i disagree in your early-adopter ponzi scheme explanation because all coins are beneficial to early adopters including BTC and XMR.

DSH is a high risk move for me, gonna keep a few..meanwhile it seems XMR is losing hashes, lower difficulty (more coins for me), time to go back mining XMR for a lower risk move.

AdamWhite

hero member

Activity: 605

Merit: 500

I'm afraid the people (well respected contributors no less) saying it makes no sense for botnet owners to mine Monero are mistaken. Sure, other coins might be more profitable in small volumes, but there's no way a botnet will be able to exchange out of a thinly traded premined shitnote and into BTC without bringing the price to zero. Same for VTC

Don't get me wrong, im in this coin for the long haul. I've exchanged all my alts for XMR. I expect botnets securing the network. As the network grow to include more efficient hardware, this will be less and less of an issue. It's a little disheartening to see this kind of misinformation here. Understand that there is no better coin for botnet operators to mine right now, and this is to be expected. Not sure if there are ulterior motives at play or if you're simply not taking volumes into consideration when claiming otherwise

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

So many people (including bitcointalk hero members and btc whales) saying they are buyers at this price but not bid support on the exchanges. I find this curious.

Buy Orders
Price   XMR   BTC
0.00240200   301.44639286   0.72407424
0.00240005   83.33159726   0.2
0.00240003   20.83307292   0.05
0.00240002   2054.5795685   4.93103206
0.00240001   500   1.200005
0.00240000   1658.80367081   3.98112881

There are 75 BTC against 89000 XMRs at Poloniex, divide 75/89000 = 0.0008, that's the average price buyers are willing to pay. Frankly, I don't see how the price can be 5x higher than its closest competitor Boolberry, both coins are technically equal. Even hero members are not bigger than the market and can't support the price indefinately.

If that logic were sound than the value of both ought to be very close to zero because they are infinitely reproducible.

birr

hero member

Activity: 870

Merit: 585

Quote from: drawingthesun on July 13, 2014, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:38:06 AM

patience buyers...miners will mine for you..lets buy XMR at cheap prices.

lots of smart people and respected members here see the potential and in a way created a buying hype..but XMR is still not as user friendly as BTC and not as known to many people yet.

Well the trouble is a low value may cause new potential developers to lose interest. Or worst case even the current developers.

People. Please don't give up hope.

hmm that's bad..

this is out of XMR topic and a little bit funny for me..coz now i see the advantage of dashcoin Cheesy

quote from the OP of DSH:

Why mirror image is better than self sustained fork?
The reason is simple - costs. Self sustained forks demand a lot of development time, if you want to build a well maintained cryptocurrency. And if the network grows, the required development time is likely to grow too.
A simpler, and less costly way to maintain a network with high reliability is to create a ~~self mutating copy of~~ parasite on it. ~~Mutating copy~~ Parasite is a simple copy of the original source, mutating every time the original source mutates.

Even more - such a process can be automated!

FTFY

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

I think bytecoin has a better shot than tenebrix, but not enough to out-compete monero.

lol tenebrix

David Latapie

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 503

Monero Core Team

Quote from: David Latapie on July 13, 2014, 08:30:45 AM

I also bought some additional XMR. Sadly, it was less than 0.5 BTC given my really limited economical capabilities.

My trading plan involves cashing out from one altcoin tomorrow. Great timing, I hope.

Quicken

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: Primitive on July 12, 2014, 05:58:55 PM

BUT.... the decline has been long and steady. What do you think is driving this? And how can this coin recover?

Tacotime said: "It’s not until 2-3 years in that we’ll likely see obscene increases in price given simple economics."
The said simple economics being mostly inflation rate (the rest being inside (wallet, website) or outside (institution getting into monero) announcements.
BTC was cheap for several years. And Monero follows a BTC-like emission curve. Connect the dots.

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:23:56 AM

Network effect, liquidity, first mover advantage.

Well, technically, First-mover advantage is for Bytecoin

But then again, this did not help Tenebrix either.

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:23:56 AM

Monero is THE cryptonote currency. Everything else is altcoins.

Someone somewhere proposed the word "altnotes"

(finally thought about checking the "don't use smiley" checkbox. I feel much better now)

Yep. I've been buying XMR to hold for at least 2-3 years based on the emission curve. FWIW in the cryptonote world I see XMR as gold while BBR is more like silver. I've got a chunk of both but XMR is the better long term prospect. The only 'danger' I see with the price right now is I might be tempted to buy much more. ;-)

Keep up the good work devs. :-)

TheKoziTwo

legendary

Activity: 1552

Merit: 1047

Quote from: David Latapie on July 13, 2014, 08:30:45 AM

Quote from: Primitive on July 12, 2014, 05:58:55 PM

BUT.... the decline has been long and steady. What do you think is driving this? And how can this coin recover?

Tacotime said: "It’s not until 2-3 years in that we’ll likely see obscene increases in price given simple economics."
The said simple economics being mostly inflation rate (the rest being inside (wallet, website) or outside (institution getting into monero) announcements.
BTC was cheap for several years. And Monero follows a BTC-like emission curve. Connect the dots.

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:23:56 AM

Network effect, liquidity, first mover advantage.

Well, technically, First-mover advantage is for Bytecoin

But then again, this did not help Tenebrix either.

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:23:56 AM

Monero is THE cryptonote currency. Everything else is altcoins.

Someone somewhere proposed the word "altnotes"

(finally thought about checking the "don't use smiley" checkbox. I feel much better now)

Bytecoin can be ignored due to the massive 80% "pre-mine", the only reason it has any value at all is that it has first mover advantage, but so does Monero for being the first fair cryptonote currency. I think bytecoin has a better shot than tenebrix, but not enough to out-compete monero.

TheKoziTwo

legendary

Activity: 1552

Merit: 1047

Quote from: arielbit on July 13, 2014, 08:02:21 AM

Quote from: othe on July 13, 2014, 07:57:49 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on July 13, 2014, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: Primitive on July 12, 2014, 05:58:55 PM

patience buyers...miners will mine for you..lets buy XMR at cheap prices.

lots of smart people and respected members here see the potential and in a way created a buying hype..but XMR is still not as user friendly as BTC and not as known to many people yet.

Well the trouble is a low value may cause new potential developers to lose interest. Or worst case even the current developers.

People. Please don't give up hope.

hmm that's bad..

this is out of XMR topic and a little bit funny for me..coz now i see the advantage of dashcoin Cheesy

quote from the OP of DSH:

Why mirror image is better than self sustained fork?
The reason is simple - costs. Self sustained forks demand a lot of development time, if you want to build a well maintained cryptocurrency. And if the network grows, the required development time is likely to grow too.
A simpler, and less costly way to maintain a network with high reliability is to create a self mutating copy of it. Mutating copy is a simple copy of the original source, mutating every time the original source mutates.

Even more - such a process can be automated!

Seriously? Relying on other people for development with that lame excuse?
So Bytecoin introduces some bug in purpose, dashcoin copies it automatically and destroys the network? Sounds really awesome...

yep that's why its funny..but solves the costs issue for development..bytecoin bug will affect them (bytecoin) first. bytecoin woudn't do that to themselves..i think so..

Dashcoin is a "shitcoin" for lack of a better word. Shitcoins may be pumped but eventually they all die due to lack of interest. They are usually created with the solo purpose of enriching the creator/early-adopter. It's pretty much the modern day form of a ponzi scheme.

Does it solve the cost of development? Certainly. But if all it takes is to copy/paste bitcoin/monero and have value is instantly created out of thin air then why not repeat this process a billion times? Quite simple: Unlimited inflation causes the coin to be worth zero.

David Latapie

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 503

Monero Core Team

BUT.... the decline has been long and steady. What do you think is driving this? And how can this coin recover?

Tacotime said: "It’s not until 2-3 years in that we’ll likely see obscene increases in price given simple economics."
The said simple economics being mostly inflation rate (the rest being inside (wallet, website) or outside (institution getting into monero) announcements.
BTC was cheap for several years. And Monero follows a BTC-like emission curve. Connect the dots.

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:23:56 AM

Network effect, liquidity, first mover advantage.

Well, technically, First-mover advantage is for Bytecoin :) But then again, this did not help Tenebrix either.

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 13, 2014, 08:23:56 AM

Monero is THE cryptonote currency. Everything else is altcoins.

Someone somewhere proposed the word "altnotes" :)

(finally thought about checking the "don't use smiley" checkbox. I feel much better now)

TheKoziTwo

legendary

Activity: 1552

Merit: 1047

Quote from: devphp on July 13, 2014, 08:03:58 AM

So many people (including bitcointalk hero members and btc whales) saying they are buyers at this price but not bid support on the exchanges. I find this curious.

Buy Orders
Price   XMR   BTC
0.00240200   301.44639286   0.72407424
0.00240005   83.33159726   0.2
0.00240003   20.83307292   0.05
0.00240002   2054.5795685   4.93103206
0.00240001   500   1.200005
0.00240000   1658.80367081   3.98112881

There are 75 BTC against 89000 XMRs at Poloniex, divide 75/89000 = 0.0008, that's the average price buyers are willing to pay. Frankly, I don't see how the price can be 5x higher than its closest competitor Boolberry, both coins are technically equal. Even hero members are not bigger than the market and can't support the price indefinately.

Network effect, liquidity, first mover advantage. Monero is THE cryptonote currency. Everything else is altcoins. Why do you think bitcoin is worth 70 times more than litecoin?

Boolberry does not offer anything significantly better/different than monero.

If all it takes is to have a technically equal currency for it to be valued at 1:1 ratio then you also need to understand that all coins will be equally worthless due to unlimited inflation.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260