[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1923.

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: dasomsos314 on May 27, 2014, 03:47:37 AM

Quote from: atleticofa on May 25, 2014, 03:17:24 PM

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!

And very few people were interested in Bitcoin when it first came out.

99% of people using Bitcoin have probably not read Satoshi's whitepaper.

Most people are only interested because of the network effect.

Monero's based on CryptoNote, I suggest people read the whitepaper to see how it differs from Bitcoin, it's a very interesting technology. I read some of the paper and am very impressed.

https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

It might take a while for Monero to catch on, as it's not the same technology as Bitcoin. But it certainly offers something that cannot be done with Bitcoin.

huhliki.k

full member

Activity: 144

Merit: 100

Quote from: dasomsos314 on May 27, 2014, 03:47:37 AM

Quote from: atleticofa on May 25, 2014, 03:17:24 PM

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!

quotes from the branch of DarkCoin dasomsos314:

Quote from: dasomsos314 on May 27, 2014, 02:14:25 AM

Quote from: orpington on May 27, 2014, 01:58:10 AM

Yep, I think it's up from here. Tongue

Prices fell trend temporarily, it in order to rise the next buffer!
Roll Eyes

Quote from: dasomsos314 on May 27, 2014, 02:09:14 AM

Quote from: dongzuoyu on May 27, 2014, 12:02:42 AM

i wish this coin will be good in the future.

Of course, it has a very bright future, believe it!

When you calm down!

I hate people like dasomsos314

dasomsos314

newbie

Activity: 51

Merit: 0

Quote from: atleticofa on May 25, 2014, 03:17:24 PM

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!

dasomsos314

newbie

Activity: 51

Merit: 0

Quote from: aminorex on May 27, 2014, 12:24:20 AM

Quote from: blaaaaacksuit on May 26, 2014, 11:59:14 PM

Everything in this universe is a spring.

When all you've got is Hooke's law, everything looks like a spring Wink

Spring is upon us, let us look forward to it!

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on May 27, 2014, 02:40:00 AM

Cryptocurrencies face a number of future problems, including but not limited to:

- transaction witholding attacks
- centralized distribution via lending of promisory notes (back to fiat)
- transaction fee escalations
- network centralization of wealth

These issues can all be solved or greatly mitigated with a reasonable, fixed inflation. There are no other solutions that I know of that are nearly as elegant.

How would you calculate the reward per block?

For 1% per year.

In a year we have 525,600 blocks. How do you make each block increase a slight amount to make 1% per year?

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Cryptocurrencies face a number of future problems, including but not limited to:

- transaction witholding attacks
- centralized distribution via lending of promisory notes (back to fiat)
- transaction fee escalations
- network centralization of wealth

These issues can all be solved or greatly mitigated with a reasonable, fixed inflation. There are no other solutions that I know of that are nearly as elegant.

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on May 27, 2014, 02:23:35 AM

Guys, a fixed subsidy will not work. This was already explained in the MRO economy thread as well as here. If you want MRO to continue to grow after you reach the fixed subsidy, miners will again start relying on tx fees, and then you have fee escalation. A fixed subsidy will only delay the problem. You must have a fixed percentage annual debasement. 1% will not do shit to the value of your coins. Be reasonable.

Money will only lose value if you inflate the circulating money supply. A 1% annual increase to the total supply won't do a damn thing, except solve all kinds of problems. You must have a fixed debasement or the network will eventually be unsustainable.

Gold debases at more than 2%/year and it will not slow down in anyone's lifetime. We will mine from space or make our own gold via super colliders long before Earth's gold supply is tapped. Interestingly, the value of gold keeps going up...

Quote from: drawingthesun on May 27, 2014, 01:00:23 AM

Inflation at 1%
http://pastebin.com/3K0dMnZe

I'm just having a look at this.

1% actually isn't so bad, ten years after the initial emission of 18 million MRO, we end up with a release of about 200,000.

Year 50 after emission of 18 million MRO and we have a release of <300,000 MRO.

It would take 70 years to double the supply of coins.

Ok a little u turn from me, 1% really does look ok. It's not as bad as I thought it would be.

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Guys, a fixed subsidy will not work. All you're doing is delaying the inevitable. This was already explained in the MRO economy thread as well as here. If MRO continues to grow after the fixed subsidy is reached, miners will again start relying on tx fees because the reward will not be worth the work, and then fees will begin to escalate. A fixed subsidy will only delay the problem. You must have a fixed percentage annual debasement. You guys know perfectly well that a 1% debasement will not hurt the value of your coins one bit. Be reasonable.

Money will only lose value if you inflate the circulating money supply. A 1% annual increase to the total supply won't do a damn thing, except solve all kinds of problems. You must have a fixed debasement or the network will eventually be unsustainable.

Gold debases at more than 2%/year and it will not slow down in anyone's lifetime. We will mine from space or make our own gold via super colliders long before Earth's gold supply is tapped. Interestingly, the value of gold keeps going up despite the constant supply inflation. Go figure.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: tacotime on May 26, 2014, 11:25:01 PM

Reminder for pool ops wanting to use the experimental version with fixed block reward/mempool algos, follow these instructions for linux:

Code:

git clone git://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero.git
cd bitmonero
git remote add upstream git://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero.git
git checkout --track origin/0.8.8update
mkdir build
make -j4

Pools are reporting this experimental code mines blocks OK

It is recommended that pools/miners upgrade to this daemon now or risk losing large amounts of block reward

http://monerochain.info/charts/reward
http://monerochain.info/

This pool is currently using the upgraded code: http://mro.extremepool.org/

eizh

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Quote from: drawingthesun on May 27, 2014, 01:00:23 AM

All simulations start after the initial 18,000,000 have been minted (I know it's not exactly 18,000,000, but it makes little difference.)

(Matlab code included in case I screwed up the math or something)

1 MRO released every 120 seconds
http://pastebin.com/UWLVZaam

1 MRO released every 60 seconds
http://pastebin.com/dkVYBFj3

0.33333333 MRO released every 60 seconds.
http://pastebin.com/GwQJQzje

Inflation at 1%
http://pastebin.com/3K0dMnZe

Inflation at 0.5%
http://pastebin.com/6tJtdrqP

Also, for fun times, Inflation at 5%
http://pastebin.com/z5vmmW3z

While we're on the subject of MATLAB scripts simulating emission Cheesy

... I wrote one a while ago that plots the block reward, circulation, inflation, and daily production with or without a minimum subsidy as a function of time. Call it with cni(years, ms) where years = number of years to simulate and ms = the minimum subsidy (e.g. 0.3). Here: http://pastebin.com/BVtd5Vmr

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

All simulations start after the initial 18,000,000 have been minted (I know it's not exactly 18,000,000, but it makes little difference.)

(Matlab code included in case I screwed up the math or something)

1 MRO released every 120 seconds
http://pastebin.com/UWLVZaam

1 MRO released every 60 seconds
http://pastebin.com/dkVYBFj3

0.33333333 MRO released every 60 seconds.
http://pastebin.com/GwQJQzje

Inflation at 1%
http://pastebin.com/3K0dMnZe

Inflation at 0.5%
http://pastebin.com/6tJtdrqP

Also, for fun times, Inflation at 5%
http://pastebin.com/z5vmmW3z

Glizlack

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Thanks for the links. I am intrigued by the idea of CPU mining this while also doing my x11 mining.

Steve

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Keyboard-Mash on May 27, 2014, 12:42:29 AM

Awesome simulation! You guys make great points. The fixed rate is technically a variable interest as well, just going down all the time ... it took me a minute or ten to make the correlation which your simulation makes incredibly clear

.

Having the fixed reward will set this apart in a great way, and does solve a whole lot of issues.

I like the direction we're headed in. Thanks for the discussion!

Glad to see more support for this. I will formalize the MIP (MIP0003) ASAP.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

http://mro.extremepool.org has decided to be brave and run the experimental daemon with the new block mining code on his pool.

Please point your miners there and let's see if the fix (which seemed OK on testnet) works OK on the mainnet! Hopefully it will result in greater profits for miners as well.

Keyboard-Mash

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: drawingthesun on May 27, 2014, 12:35:13 AM

Quote from: aminorex on May 27, 2014, 12:09:01 AM

FWIW I endorse drawingthesun's view on fixed emission rates. It fixes both the inflationary failure scenario and the inadequate fees failure scenario. Therefore it eliminates a lot of the long-term viability threat. It helps differentiate MRO from most other crypto, and in the long run it will facilitate the transition from the role of an extreme speculation vehicle to the role of a safe harbor.

This is a good point and the reason I brought up Ethereum. They are the only coin doing things right with regards to the emission rate. (In my opinion :p)

Of course the difference between fixed amount and fixed percentage might not be much in our lifetimes, but it does differentiate us from other crypto. Most crypto either have a rate of increase in percent or a fixed limited supply.

I'm not sure of any big name coins that will a fixed absolute amount per year. Ethereum will be a top 10 crypto that will offer it and I wouldn't mind MRO being the other major Crypto to offer it.

Have a think about 1 MRO release for 120 second blocks.

The first year after emission of the initial supply ends you're left with a inflation rate of 1.4%

I wrote a matlab script to calculate inflation rate at 1 MRO blocks per 120 seconds for 1000 years.

Note the calculation starts when all 18,000,000 have already been minted.

http://pastebin.com/sKyXZBzB

Awesome simulation! You guys make great points. The fixed rate is technically a variable ~~interest~~ (edit: i meant inflation ..) as well, just going down all the time ... it took me a minute or ten to make the correlation which your simulation makes incredibly clear

.

Having the fixed reward will set this apart in a great way, and does solve a whole lot of issues.

I like the direction we're headed in. Thanks for the discussion!

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: tacotime on May 27, 2014, 12:15:45 AM

The MIP I'm proposing will fix reward when it hits 0.33333333 per block, which, at that time, will result in slightly less than 1% inflation for the first year if I recall correctly, then progressively decreasing inflation each subsequent year.

Not to bad.

Here is 1 - 1,000 years after the initial minting of 18,000,000:

Quote

(0.33333333*60*24*365)

http://pastebin.com/r8WbghuZ

Keyboard-Mash

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Glizlack on May 27, 2014, 12:30:31 AM

Any news on a more user friendly wallet?

Quote from: eizh on May 26, 2014, 01:59:29 PM

You can follow Bitkoot's progress on a .NET GUI wrapper here (Windows only):
https://github.com/BitKoot/CryptoNoteWallet

You can follow jwinterm's progress on a kivy GUI wrapper here (Windows, and probably Linux as well):
https://github.com/jwinterm/cryptonoteRPCwalletGUI

You can follow Neozaru's progress on a cross-platform Qt GUI wallet here:
https://github.com/Neozaru/bitmonero-qt

We also have another person working on a different Qt GUI implementation, but it's not public yet.

zjz_lgd

full member

Activity: 173

Merit: 100

zjz_lgd

I use the GUI wallet, but the GUI wallet can mine well!
But it seems cannot send coins out?is anybody have this type of problems?
And all my coins are unconfirmd for a few days?Is it normal?

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: aminorex on May 27, 2014, 12:09:01 AM

FWIW I endorse drawingthesun's view on fixed emission rates. It fixes both the inflationary failure scenario and the inadequate fees failure scenario. Therefore it eliminates a lot of the long-term viability threat. It helps differentiate MRO from most other crypto, and in the long run it will facilitate the transition from the role of an extreme speculation vehicle to the role of a safe harbor.

This is a good point and the reason I brought up Ethereum. They are the only coin doing things right with regards to the emission rate. (In my opinion :p)

Of course the difference between fixed amount and fixed percentage might not be much in our lifetimes, but it does differentiate us from other crypto. Most crypto either have a rate of increase in percent or a fixed limited supply.

I'm not sure of any big name coins that will a fixed absolute amount per year. Ethereum will be a top 10 crypto that will offer it and I wouldn't mind MRO being the other major Crypto to offer it.

Have a think about 1 MRO release for 120 second blocks.

The first year after emission of the initial supply ends you're left with a inflation rate of 1.4%

I wrote a matlab script to calculate inflation rate at 1 MRO blocks per 120 seconds for 1000 years.

Note the calculation starts when all 18,000,000 have already been minted.

http://pastebin.com/sKyXZBzB

Glizlack

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Any news on a more user friendly wallet?

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1923. (Read 4671660 times)