Code:
git clone git://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero.git
cd bitmonero
git remote add upstream git://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero.git
git checkout --track origin/0.8.8update
mkdir build
make -j4
Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1924. (Read 4670562 times)
Reminder for pool ops wanting to use the experimental version with fixed block reward/mempool algos, follow these instructions for linux:
At some point, the constant supply will be small enough that the value of the coins would approach infinity .. I can't see out 1000 years but .0001% seems an awfully small number that can easily be overcome.
I agree, 1% fixed probably isn't ideal. I also agree that the problem may be solved with an emission rather than a targeted inflation. But I still feel that there should be some years where the inflation is much less than 1% or the emission should be a number much less than the targeted emission, regardless of which method is chosen. A variable rate based on constantly changing variables. I think Aminorex mentioned that we should look at transaction volume, as the number of transactions, and use that as a factor as well.
I agree, 1% fixed probably isn't ideal. I also agree that the problem may be solved with an emission rather than a targeted inflation. But I still feel that there should be some years where the inflation is much less than 1% or the emission should be a number much less than the targeted emission, regardless of which method is chosen. A variable rate based on constantly changing variables. I think Aminorex mentioned that we should look at transaction volume, as the number of transactions, and use that as a factor as well.
Good points.
I think transaction volume is not a good metric, it can be gamed far too easily.
And an absolute number does cause the existing supply to approach infinity.
Perhaps a percentage, but just lower? 1% is so high it really feels dirty! :p
What do you think about something like 0.5% or even 0.25%?
Does anyone have any recommendations on an adequate cpu mining setup?
I think a decent comparison might be made with gold here. Comparing the total amount of gold in the world (estimate) to the amount produced per year may yield some interesting numbers.
I got into Bitcoin because I don't want a similar release to gold. (Or banks!)
I could ultimately see that leading to fractional reserve banking. How could we ultimately deal with this, other than slowing the evolution of something like that to a crawl?
Having the value of the coins not approaching infinity (with some form of debasement either through a constant emission, or interest rate) is a good start, but also not having the value approach zero (by having either of those two features not be too aggressive). The only way I can see this happening is with a variable emission (you seem to favor a fixed one) or variable inflation rate .. but you may very well be right about a fixed emission (I don't have the depth to fully understand the long term effects)
Ethereum is the only coin doing it right I think, it'll be a constant supply and people can mine the same amount of Ethereum in a thousand years, but of course it'll be 0.0001% of the supply by then, causing all the Ethereum to hold great value.
At some point, the constant supply will be small enough that the value of the coins would approach infinity .. I can't see out 1000 years but .0001% seems an awfully small number that can easily be overcome.
In the meantime Bitcoin will be earning it's security from transaction fees. Good luck with that.
I can definitely agree with you that security cannot be sustained solely by transaction fees.Oh and gold? Well gold is 1% now, but there is a limited amount in the Earth. gold is likely to decrease it's percent too, until space mining is a thing.
I was only trying to offer it as an example of a natural restriction on inflation. There's no way the inflation has been a solid 1.5% for 6000 years .. it changes with our ability to produce and mine it (and want it). I would think the 1.5% would be a maximum, and agree that the amount in the ground is finite.MRO under a 1% scheme would be worse, as the supply will increase every year, causing MRO to lose value year after year forever.
I would prefer not to have a compounding 1% devaluation of everyones holdings for all time. :p
I agree, 1% fixed probably isn't ideal. I also agree that the problem may be solved with an emission rather than a targeted inflation. But I still feel that there should be some years where the inflation is much less than 1% or the emission should be a number much less than the targeted emission, regardless of which method is chosen. A variable rate based on constantly changing variables. I think Aminorex mentioned that we should look at transaction volume, as the number of transactions, and use that as a factor as well.I would prefer not to have a compounding 1% devaluation of everyones holdings for all time. :p
The real decision would have to be made by future devs; same for Bitcoin. Who knows what the financial or technological landscape will look like even 10 years from now?
Well these coins are a social contract with their users.
We need to sort out the reward and eventual supply now, this has to be finalised otherwise people will not invest.
The Bitcoin social contract that states the supply will not go over 21,000,000 will not change. It'll never happen. People invested into Bitcoin knowing what they were getting into.
Even if we never change the MRO emission curve (We bought into the MRO social contract too.) We must now at least finalise the inflation model. I remember seeing it on the first page of this thread, that it has yet to be decided.
I want it to be finalised now. I know mistakes we make now are with us forever, but people need to know what the future of MRO looks like in regards to coin release. In an age where XC and DarkCoin are cutting coin release and making all their coins worth infinitely more, we are at odds putting in functions that devalue our holdings.
If it's going to be a percentage, I would prefer 0.5%
If it's going to be an absolute amount, I would prefer 250,000 MRO per year after initial coin emission. This can be done with 1 MRO reward with 2 minute blocks.
Whatever it is, we need to decide on a final Monero social contract to eliminate all uncertainty regarding coin release.
Regarding inflation after the 18,000,000 coins are minted.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
This is an excellent idea. I really hope the dev team takes a look at this.
how to withdraw MRO from poloniex?
Regarding inflation after the 18,000,000 coins are minted.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
Either one devalues. In practice, the difference isn't that great for these low magnitudes. If we started at 1% (0.333 fixed minimum), then it would be around 0.6% in 2070. 1.0 MRO fixed is actually much more inflationary within the lifetime of anyone here today. It would start at ~3% and go to ~1.2% around 2070.
No matter what we do, it's pure guesswork. The real decision would have to be made by future devs; same for Bitcoin. Who knows what the financial or technological landscape will look like even 10 years from now?
I think a decent comparison might be made with gold here. Comparing the total amount of gold in the world (estimate) to the amount produced per year may yield some interesting numbers.
I got into Bitcoin because I don't want a similar release to gold. (Or banks!)
I always thought that Satoshi should have kept the 50 bitcoin reward constant, yeah the first 10 years would have had huge inflation but it would allow more people to get on board during the early years. Then 50 years in bitcoin would have been having a moderate inflation but still enough to entice all peoples to invest in a growing currency. 100 years and you're on 1% and then after you get the super rare phase.
Ethereum is the only coin doing it right I think, it'll be a constant supply and people can mine the same amount of Ethereum in a thousand years, but of course it'll be 0.0001% of the supply by then, causing all the Ethereum to hold great value.
In the meantime Bitcoin will be earning it's security from transaction fees. Good luck with that.
Oh and gold? Well gold is 1% now, but there is a limited amount in the Earth. gold is likely to decrease it's percent too, until space mining is a thing.
MRO under a 1% scheme would be worse, as the supply will increase every year, causing MRO to lose value year after year forever.
I would prefer not to have a compounding 1% devaluation of everyones holdings for all time. :p
I really like the idea of lowest reward being 1 MRO per block. Remember that transaction fees would also add quite a bit by that time (As this assumes MRO is being widely used in 20 - 40 years and hasn't died!)
Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today. Looking forward to tomorrow.
np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9
How frequently is this happening?
See for yourself; http://monerochain.info/
Wow, yea, definitely looking forward to the end of this!
Regarding inflation after the 18,000,000 coins are minted.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
I think a decent comparison might be made with gold here. Comparing the total amount of gold in the world (estimate) to the amount produced per year may yield some interesting numbers.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21969100
This page (year old article) seems to indicate estimates of 171,300 tonnes
http://news.goldseek.com/Dani/1309290922.php
and http://onlygold.com/FAQ/faq_factsandstatistics.htm
Indicate there's about 2500 tons produced/year.
If we're looking for possible inflation rates based on real world numbers/decent estimates, that might be a place to look. Right now that's giving an inflation of around 1.456% or so. Of course that changes over time, and you may find better number in looking at the % of gold mined per country or something .. but again I'm just trying to offer something to base ourselves on. Anyone have a better comparison or can offer ideas on why this wouldn't be a good place to look at?
So, whats everyones hash rates at?
Mines at a hefty 12.74KH/s
Mines at a hefty 12.74KH/s
If I may ask, please - what is the power draw of your 12.74kH/s mining rig?
Thanks
Regarding inflation after the 18,000,000 coins are minted.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
I believe that a constant amount of coin release is superior to a 1% inflation. The Ethereum guys are going to probably do it this way.
1% constantly devalues everyones coins, whereas if we just made the final block reward 1 MRO, thats about 500,000 mro per year (Or 250,000 per year with 2 minute blocks). It would be about 2% inflation for that year it came into effect, but would gradually become less than 1%.
A fixed eventual supply of 500,000 mro is going to always be enough to entice miners. Remember that the value of those 500,000 will probably increase as time goes on.
A 1% reward will just devalue the currency for everyone else.
A constant supply will create a long term rare coin without the reward problem that Bitcoin will run into.
I am a fan of the economic model of constant supply. I am not a fan of 1% inflation.
Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today. Looking forward to tomorrow.
np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9
Thanks for the update! I'll try it out now too. Maybe you or someone explained this already, but how does the regular update work? Does it restrict tx sizes by denying large size transactions and couple the larger ones with the higher fee? Or are all tx's going to have the same fee you set regardless of size now? What's different with the experimental update 0.8.8? Does it scale on the medium block size or something?
Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today. Looking forward to tomorrow.
np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9
How frequently is this happening?
See for yourself; http://monerochain.info/
Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today. Looking forward to tomorrow.
np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9
How frequently is this happening?
Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today. Looking forward to tomorrow.
np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9
New Windows binaries are available that are compatible with the fee update and tx size restrictions.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/38aa9pb9zfw7ltf/monero.win.x64.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uevvh90maa8r1zm/monero.win.x86.0526.zip
Those wishing to try to the experimental 0.8.8 branch may also use it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqcz044228veu92/monero.win.x64.experimental.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nfeqsv9i2zx9dox/monero.win.x86.experimental.0526.zip
Please let me know of any bugs it may have.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/38aa9pb9zfw7ltf/monero.win.x64.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uevvh90maa8r1zm/monero.win.x86.0526.zip
Those wishing to try to the experimental 0.8.8 branch may also use it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqcz044228veu92/monero.win.x64.experimental.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nfeqsv9i2zx9dox/monero.win.x86.experimental.0526.zip
Please let me know of any bugs it may have.
Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today. Looking forward to tomorrow.
New Windows binaries are available that are compatible with the fee update and tx size restrictions.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/38aa9pb9zfw7ltf/monero.win.x64.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uevvh90maa8r1zm/monero.win.x86.0526.zip
Those wishing to try to the experimental 0.8.8 branch may also use it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqcz044228veu92/monero.win.x64.experimental.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nfeqsv9i2zx9dox/monero.win.x86.experimental.0526.zip
Please let me know of any bugs it may have.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/38aa9pb9zfw7ltf/monero.win.x64.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uevvh90maa8r1zm/monero.win.x86.0526.zip
Those wishing to try to the experimental 0.8.8 branch may also use it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqcz044228veu92/monero.win.x64.experimental.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nfeqsv9i2zx9dox/monero.win.x86.experimental.0526.zip
Please let me know of any bugs it may have.
no merchant cares whether there are any confirms unless the value is high enough to wait.
Truth. Are you trying to steer toward a conversation about the market price? I'll bite.
What I see happening now is that the markets (and us) are paying for those who have overextended themselves. End of the month bills are now due and that includes rent, power and especially amazon. Altcoin markets are filled with this and I've seen this repeat at usually the last week of the month for a lot of 'overmined' alts. Not to say that this doesn't deserve the attention, but surely historic volumes tend to cause some people to go a little more nuts than they would not have otherwise. I just hope that people reading this, that are in that situation, can learn from this overshoot and maybe reach a little less far in the future. Just my thought is all.
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