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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1291. (Read 3314316 times)

hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
May 27, 2016, 04:16:19 PM
EDIT: for example, Poloniex doesn't need an XMR GUI to offer users a robust and intuitive crypto exchange... and XMR.TO and Shapeshift don't need an XMR GUI to offer users quick and easy btc conversion.

Except that is completely wrong. Poloniex can't offer a robust and intuitive crypto exchange for XMR unless users have the ability to
withdraw their coins in a manner consistent with the skill and comfort level. The same applies to all of the others more or less (less so for MyMonero).

It is also the case that spending coins left on an exchange, while possible, is inconvenient.

Part of the appeal of a private store of value is that you can actually store it yourself under your own control. Only then can you proceed to use it by spending it (which in turn makes it attractive to offer services to people using Monero as a private store of value), but not before. Without a GUI many potential users can't do either.

I'm not sure exactly what you're disagreeing with. I'm not saying GUI's aren't important. I'm saying they're products that should be left to third parties and are largely outside the scope of what the core software should include.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 27, 2016, 04:11:08 PM
...
The coin is just too small to reliably support those sorts of products and independent efforts (not meant as any disrespect for jwinterm and his lightWallet GUI which is still maintained and used). While it isn't the idea long-term strategy, for now we need to focus efforts on getting one well-maintained GUI.


None taken. I'd hardly even call it maintained to be fair. Based on your last sentence I infer that you believe the official Monero core GUI is still quite a ways off, unless you're saying that Monero core will be that one well-maintained GUI, and efforts should be focused there.

I did not mean to suggest anything about the expected timeframe for the core GUI. I did mean that it would be the one well-maintained GUI, since efforts would be focused on it in a manner that doesn't seem to happen for independent GUIs.
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
May 27, 2016, 04:10:53 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I disagree completely. There are plenty of reasonable arguments against that, the biggest of which is that a bundled GUI will do nothing to attract adoption outside of the cryptosphere, and almost everyone inside the cryptosphere is already aware of Monero and can use it if they want to.

A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

Let me link Grandma to anything other than a official supported easy to use GUI and see what happens.

BTW when you answered for me the other day you were spot on. thx Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 27, 2016, 04:08:15 PM
EDIT: for example, Poloniex doesn't need an XMR GUI to offer users a robust and intuitive crypto exchange... and XMR.TO and Shapeshift don't need an XMR GUI to offer users quick and easy btc conversion.

Except that is completely wrong. Poloniex can't offer a robust and intuitive crypto exchange for XMR unless users have the ability to
withdraw their coins in a manner consistent with the skill and comfort level. The same applies to all of the others more or less (less so for MyMonero).

It is also the case that spending coins left on an exchange, while possible, is inconvenient.

Part of the appeal of a private store of value is that you can actually store it yourself under your own control. Only then can you proceed to use it by spending it (which in turn makes it attractive to offer services to people using Monero as a private store of value), but not before. Without a GUI many potential users can't do either.

hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
May 27, 2016, 03:56:40 PM
A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

Except in the case of Monero - where it has taken so long that it's the equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever, and people that had no interest in the coin at all will just be amazed if it actually comes out and download it just to see what the hell it is.

I get that you're (probably) joking, but it's still worth noting that DNF was a product (and a much hyped one at that) designed for the end user, whereas cryptocurrencies are protocols ultimately intended for integration into other systems and services.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
May 27, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

Except in the case of Monero - where it has taken so long that it's the equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever, and people that had no interest in the coin at all will just be amazed if it actually comes out and download it just to see what the hell it is.
hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
May 27, 2016, 03:37:47 PM
I'm afraid I can't agree. It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people (including people outside the cryptosphere) something to download that is easier to use. Without that such efforts face a very uphill battle. You could possibly reach beyond the cryptposhere to other sys admis, software developers, etc. who are comfortable with command line tool, but that's a narrow market with little obvious attraction to alternative monetary systems.

I think we disagree on what Monero is in scope. I see it as a protocol for third parties to leverage and use in their products and services, and not (ultimately) as something the end user will ever need to download and run independently. Hardware and software wallets will be third party tools of various flavors depending on the needs of the user, but none of which require the user to download core Monero binaries to use.

It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people (including people outside the cryptosphere) something to download that is easier to use.

I'm saying that people have no reason to download and use the core software unless it's part of a product or service that gives them a good reason to use it.

EDIT: for example, Poloniex doesn't need an XMR GUI to offer users a robust and intuitive crypto exchange... and XMR.TO and Shapeshift don't need an XMR GUI to offer users quick and easy btc conversion. MyMonero doesn't require a bundled GUI to offer its own simple web wallet service. It's services like those that ultimately attract users, not core implementations that end-users will never bother with anyway
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 1118
May 27, 2016, 03:33:58 PM
...
The coin is just too small to reliably support those sorts of products and independent efforts (not meant as any disrespect for jwinterm and his lightWallet GUI which is still maintained and used). While it isn't the idea long-term strategy, for now we need to focus efforts on getting one well-maintained GUI.


None taken. I'd hardly even call it maintained to be fair. Based on your last sentence I infer that you believe the official Monero core GUI is still quite a ways off, unless you're saying that Monero core will be that one well-maintained GUI, and efforts should be focused there.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
May 27, 2016, 03:32:15 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I disagree completely. There are plenty of reasonable arguments against that, the biggest of which is that a bundled GUI will do nothing to attract adoption outside of the cryptosphere, and almost everyone inside the cryptosphere is already aware of Monero and can use it if they want to.

I'm afraid I can't agree. It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people something to download that is easier to use. Without that such efforts face a very uphill battle. You could possibly reach beyond the cryptposhere to other sys admis, software developers, etc. who are comfortable with command line tool, but that's a narrow market with little obvious attraction to alternative monetary systems.

A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

What will?

Nothing will, by itself. There are many pieces that need to fit together, GUI being one of them.

I completely agree with both of your comments.
hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
May 27, 2016, 03:31:50 PM
A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

What will?

Services and tools that are useful on their own. I still think a centralized messaging/payments app would be very helpful (assuming it's done right).
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 27, 2016, 03:30:01 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I disagree completely. There are plenty of reasonable arguments against that, the biggest of which is that a bundled GUI will do nothing to attract adoption outside of the cryptosphere, and almost everyone inside the cryptosphere is already aware of Monero and can use it if they want to.

I'm afraid I can't agree. It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people (including people outside the cryptosphere) something to download that is easier to use. Without that such efforts face a very uphill battle. You could possibly reach beyond the cryptposhere to other sys admis, software developers, etc. who are comfortable with command line tool, but that's a narrow market with little obvious attraction to alternative monetary systems.

A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

What will?

Nothing will, by itself. There are many pieces that need to fit together, GUI being one of them.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
May 27, 2016, 03:28:50 PM
A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

What will?
hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
May 27, 2016, 03:27:10 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I disagree completely. There are plenty of reasonable arguments against that, the biggest of which is that a bundled GUI will do nothing to attract adoption outside of the cryptosphere, and almost everyone inside the cryptosphere is already aware of Monero and can use it if they want to.

A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 27, 2016, 03:26:00 PM
how many people use bitcoin's official qt gui?

how many use mycelium, electrum, coinbase, cold wallets, etc?

the xmr gui is not as important as people are making it out to be. people should stop fixating on it.

Those weren't available in the early years of Bitcoin though. Furthermore, Bitcoin-QT was not really that user friendly and kind of "ugly".

The point is somewhat valid for Monero though, since we do now have lightWallet, MyMonero and a few others.

Those solutions are not great though, given the issue of resources. I believe MyMonero still does not support integrated addresses for example (not positive, as I don't use it). It definitely doesn't support tx-keys (needed for proof of payment) meaning it can't be used with bitsquare.

I don't mean that to call out fluffypony for doing anything wrong, as I think MyMonero overall is basically great, but it is hard to for all third party projects to justify a lot of resources for development when the coin is small as are the revenue opportunities for such a product.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
May 27, 2016, 03:17:13 PM
how many people use bitcoin's official qt gui?

how many use mycelium, electrum, coinbase, cold wallets, etc?

the xmr gui is not as important as people are making it out to be. people should stop fixating on it.

Those weren't available in the early years of Bitcoin though. Furthermore, Bitcoin-QT was not really that user friendly and kind of "ugly".
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 27, 2016, 03:12:44 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I don't think anyone is arguing that that isn't true, just that it isn't the only thing that will lead to adoption, but it does seem to be the only thing some people focus on.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 27, 2016, 02:58:33 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I agree with this because there aren't already a bunch of other GUIs like there are for Bitcoin.

We tried that approach early on with the GUI bounty which successfully produced four different products, all of which got a piece of the bounty. Most were not maintained. One became MoneroX which was maintained for a while but that too was abandoned. The coin is just too small to reliably support those sorts of products and independent efforts (not meant as any disrespect for jwinterm and his lightWallet GUI which is still maintained and used). While it isn't the idea long-term strategy, for now we need to focus efforts on getting one well-maintained GUI.


legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
May 27, 2016, 02:48:43 PM
Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 27, 2016, 02:30:26 PM
how many people use bitcoin's official qt gui?

how many use mycelium, electrum, coinbase, cold wallets, etc?

the xmr gui is not as important as people are making it out to be. people should stop fixating on it.

I think the poor man's investor (cart before the horse) argument goes as follows:

A coin must have an official GUI for moon

Monero doesn't have an official GUI

Therefore Monero no moon

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
21 million. I want them all.
May 27, 2016, 02:25:27 PM
how many people use bitcoin's official qt gui?

how many use mycelium, electrum, coinbase, cold wallets, etc?

the xmr gui is not as important as people are making it out to be. people should stop fixating on it.
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