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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1311. (Read 3314316 times)

legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
May 08, 2016, 11:29:47 AM
i dont get it

That's why I explained it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-dash-fails-decentralization-1443867

Can't make it any clearer (unless cognitive dissonance, or worse, is the real problem).

BTW, masternodes compound the problem of mining centralization, so stating a problem to explain the need for a new problem is not what you are doing here (though it's still weird logic) you are actually adding another problem that is most likely worse--and, in dash's case, is worse.

Also, I don't watch markets that much, but is there a corollary between masternodes and stable price? Both XMR and dash seem to have similar price fluctuations. If that's true, then your original argument goes out the window (masternodes=price stability). Aren't there already benefits to miners and services running full-nodes? If so, then increased mining and services should correspond with node increase.

Although even the incentivized node as price stabilizer in'ts really a valid argument in itself. Unless you account for the coins being removed from the market, you aren't really saying nodes are creating the upward or stabilizing pressure--you could very turn the argument to, "Why doesn't dash have a CryptoKingdom style game to stabilize the price?"  Wink


i dont get it because your FUD is dihonest,  you cant do 51% attack with masternode so there is no centralization.  your XMR whale might hodl 50% of xmr coin and he is swinging price like a toy. so there is your centralization, how would you prevent ppl from dumping all their Monero then close up their node and mining other coin likeeee... Aeon instead Huh 
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 08, 2016, 11:01:26 AM
i dont get it

That's why I explained it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-dash-fails-decentralization-1443867

Can't make it any clearer (unless cognitive dissonance, or worse, is the real problem).

BTW, masternodes compound the problem of mining centralization, so stating a problem to explain the need for a new problem is not what you are doing here (though it's still weird logic) you are actually adding another problem that is most likely worse--and, in dash's case, is worse.

Also, I don't watch markets that much, but is there a corollary between masternodes and stable price? Both XMR and dash seem to have similar price fluctuations. If that's true, then your original argument goes out the window (masternodes=price stability). Aren't there already benefits to miners and services running full-nodes? If so, then increased mining and services should correspond with node increase.

Although even the incentivized node as price stabilizer in'ts really a valid argument in itself. Unless you account for the coins being removed from the market, you aren't really saying nodes are creating the upward or stabilizing pressure--you could very turn the argument to, "Why doesn't dash have a CryptoKingdom style game to stabilize the price?"  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
May 08, 2016, 10:39:02 AM
the idea of masternod == decentralization is as stupid as the idea that pow mining==centralization.   because ppl will always try to manipulate price and their coin holding regardless of masternode or not.  i dont get it why ppl holding masternode is centralized when its the miner which processing the transaction  Tongue Tongue Tongue  and ppl still can host node without coin  if he feel like it  Cool

without masternode, XMR price fall because many ppl who bought lower fear that they lost their profit and dump their coin. eventually ppl will get panicked as well and sell at loss.




I dont think you get what CryptoCurrencies are for ... 1 Monero will always be 1 Monero... what you are saying is that you are only interested in the price of your coin compared to fiat


the question is whether 1 monero is 0.002 or is it 0.0002 btc...

uh wait... bitcoin is CryptoCurrencies  tooo  Tongue Tongue Tongue
hero member
Activity: 768
Merit: 505
May 08, 2016, 10:37:16 AM
the idea of masternod == decentralization is as stupid as the idea that pow mining==centralization.   because ppl will always try to manipulate price and their coin holding regardless of masternode or not.  i dont get it why ppl holding masternode is centralized when its the miner which processing the transaction  Tongue Tongue Tongue  and ppl still can host node without coin  if he feel like it  Cool

without masternode, XMR price fall because many ppl who bought lower fear that they lost their profit and dump their coin. eventually ppl will get panicked as well and sell at loss.




I dont think you get what CryptoCurrencies are for ... 1 Monero will always be 1 Monero... what you are saying is that you are only interested in the price of your coin compared to fiat
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
May 08, 2016, 10:33:51 AM
the idea of masternod == decentralization is as stupid as the idea that pow mining==centralization.   because ppl will always try to manipulate price and their coin holding regardless of masternode or not.  i dont get it why ppl holding masternode is centralized when its the miner which processing the transaction  Tongue Tongue Tongue  and ppl still can host node without coin  if he feel like it  Cool

without masternode, XMR price fall because many ppl who bought lower fear that they lost their profit and dump their coin. eventually ppl will get panicked as well and sell at loss.


legendary
Activity: 3570
Merit: 1959
May 08, 2016, 10:05:11 AM
Arguments aside ...

I thought we may be going back to the .0019 area, but not now apparently. Maybe the dev meeting today will have some good news on the price. Smiley  

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 08, 2016, 10:02:09 AM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy



My guess, it will go down.
Embarrassed

it alwasys  saddening to see investor being skinned by whale...

EDIT :  IMHO monero should think about implementing masternode btw, so that price have better stability

Does IMHO mean In My Horrible Opinion? Incentivizing nodes creates more problems than it fixes. Even if you did it in a way that doesn't encourage centralization (IE the Evan way) you still add a layer of complexity that will have many unintended results. Isn't creating a coin with fungibility as near as cash as possible and having it work within the most private network available enough for the Devs to contend with? Or do you also suggest that Monero moves away from the built-the-way-it-was-supposed-to-be-built-plan to  promises-then-lowered-expectsations-followed-by-bigger-promises-then-lowered-expectations-followed-by-OH-SHIT-IT"S-BROKE-that-was-not-the-plan?

cryptocurrency is not paper money, it need node by design, the same way it need miner. so as by design which miner was incentivized, so node too should be rewarded. 

yes it will add complexity, but that give bigger reward to the coin holder. why afraid of complexity Huh is that why monero still using command line wallet Huh   because gui wallet add complexity to developer Huh



Complexity + unintended consequences = bad design

I get why nodes are important, but until someone figures out a way to reward them without introducing centralization, I doubt you'll find the concept in any serious cryptocurrency.

Do you have a plan to implement them that doesn't incur more centralization? If you do, I'd like to hear it.

BTW, here's why masternodes are a terrible idea as implemented:

Dash's failure at trustless decentralization is the test case that formed my understanding of why trustless decentralization is necessary for any cryptocurrency to succeed at being disruptive. Dash's failure is that it built a centralizing flaw that aggregates coins to those who run nodes and layering power functions (votes, fees, privacy, etc...) onto these nodes.

Dash's nodes have two major weaknesses in design: first, they are pay based, or paynodes, which means that they can be bought and sold. The second flaw in design is that they collect fees, which means node holders collect money that in turn can be used to buy more nodes that in turn can collect more fees, and so on and so forth. Where this especially becomes troubling is that dash's launch produced 2 million coins in 2 days and this initial distribution cannot be verified to be fairly distributed, which means the resources to buy 2000 nodes (more than half of current existing at this writing) were made available to a few lucky guys who happened to be mining at that right moment--considering this is 30% of current distribution and given that they could have bought 2000 or more masternodes since that scheme was introduced, the number of masternodes these initial miners could have may be considerably more than 30%, and considering that this control can aggregate over time, it illustrates why these systems need to be trustlessly verified.

I apologize for all the numbers just thrown at you, but lets make it simpler, since the masternode system collects the revenue that determines its degree of centralization, and that centralization can't be verified to any statistical certainty, we should assume that it is increasingly trending towards a traditional oligarchy or monarchy, where one or a few have undue power over the entire system--how it behaves, the distribution and security of its benefits.

We can assume this model fails at decentralization if we follow the principle that a cryptosystem should be trustlessly verified--it is imperative that if you want to break away from the shackles of a central power and from the enablers of these systems, you can not get there following the same old trusted rules, mathematics have given us the tools to undermine and outperform these old world systems, but we will never get there by using systems that forgo the technology and embrace the old world trust model in a vain attempt to disrupt those standards by embracing them.

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
May 08, 2016, 09:43:53 AM
Kovri (I2P) dev meeting in approximately 2 hours (17:00 UTC). Dev meeting can be followed at #monero-dev on freenode

https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20160508T17&p1=0&p2=56&p3=37&p4=102&p5=240&p6=136&p7=179&p8=137&p9=70

Quote
If you have an IRC client, just make sure you are on the freenode server and you can subsequently join #monero-dev

If you don't have an IRC client, you can follow the dev meeting using:

http://webchat.freenode.net/

Set the channel to -> #monero-dev

And pick a nickname you like. Everyone is welcome to follow the dev meeting!

Conversation at #monero-dev:

Quote
fluffypony: The messages from the I2P meeting will end up @ #kovri-dev on freenode right?
on irc2p, and on freenode
so you can just stay here, no need to change rooms
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
May 08, 2016, 09:41:24 AM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy



My guess, it will go down.
Embarrassed

it alwasys  saddening to see investor being skinned by whale...

EDIT :  IMHO monero should think about implementing masternode btw, so that price have better stability

Does IMHO mean In My Horrible Opinion? Incentivizing nodes creates more problems than it fixes. Even if you did it in a way that doesn't encourage centralization (IE the Evan way) you still add a layer of complexity that will have many unintended results. Isn't creating a coin with fungibility as near as cash as possible and having it work within the most private network available enough for the Devs to contend with? Or do you also suggest that Monero moves away from the built-the-way-it-was-supposed-to-be-built-plan to  promises-then-lowered-expectsations-followed-by-bigger-promises-then-lowered-expectations-followed-by-OH-SHIT-IT"S-BROKE-that-was-not-the-plan?

cryptocurrency is not paper money, it need node by design, the same way it need miner. so as by design which miner was incentivized, so node too should be rewarded. 

yes it will add complexity, but that give bigger reward to the coin holder. why afraid of complexity Huh is that why monero still using command line wallet Huh   because gui wallet add complexity to developer Huh

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
May 08, 2016, 08:57:17 AM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy



My guess, it will go down.
Embarrassed

it alwasys  saddening to see investor being skinned by whale...

EDIT :  IMHO monero should think about implementing masternode btw, so that price have better stability

Does IMHO mean In My Horrible Opinion? Incentivizing nodes creates more problems than it fixes. Even if you did it in a way that doesn't encourage centralization (IE the Evan way) you still add a layer of complexity that will have many unintended results. Isn't creating a coin with fungibility as near as cash as possible and having it work within the most private network available enough for the Devs to contend with? Or do you also suggest that Monero moves away from the built-the-way-it-was-supposed-to-be-built-plan to  promises-then-lowered-expectsations-followed-by-bigger-promises-then-lowered-expectations-followed-by-OH-SHIT-IT"S-BROKE-that-was-not-the-plan?
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
May 08, 2016, 08:47:26 AM
Sixth dev meeting in approximately 2 hours (16:00 UTC). Dev meeting will be held at #monero-dev on freenode

https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20160508T16&p1=0&p2=56&p3=37&p4=102&p5=240&p6=136&p7=179&p8=137&p9=70

Quote
If you have an IRC client, just make sure you are on the freenode server and you can subsequently join #monero-dev

If you don't have an IRC client, you can follow the dev meeting using:

http://webchat.freenode.net/

Set the channel to -> #monero-dev

And pick a nickname you like. Everyone is welcome to follow the dev meeting!
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
May 08, 2016, 08:36:36 AM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy

You can pretty much guarantee that its going south for a while.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
May 08, 2016, 08:34:18 AM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy



My guess, it will go down.
Embarrassed

it alwasys  saddening to see investor being skinned by whale...

EDIT :  IMHO monero should think about implementing masternode btw, so that price have better stability
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
May 08, 2016, 07:01:46 AM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy



My guess, it will go down.
legendary
Activity: 3570
Merit: 1959
May 07, 2016, 06:25:02 PM
Flatlining at 0.00192215 atm. Interesting to see where this will go. Cheesy

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
May 07, 2016, 03:19:57 PM
in addition ; The XMR wait for dump. We will wait for a long time
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
May 07, 2016, 03:08:49 PM
I looked at the Bologniex casino and saw some coin named Aiden up 1000% and was like wow, Americanpegasus is rich now.  Then I remembered it was spelled Aeon lol.

Well, if you have a sense of humour about it all then you'll never need booze. Cheesy

Giant green and giant red candles are both great reasons to drink.

I looked at the Bologniex casino and saw some coin named Aiden up 1000% and was like wow, Americanpegasus is rich now.  Then I remembered it was spelled Aeon lol.

TFW 
 
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
May 07, 2016, 01:06:25 PM
PM me too please  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008
May 07, 2016, 06:39:57 AM
^^^PM sent
hero member
Activity: 768
Merit: 505
May 07, 2016, 01:34:13 AM
Hmm... XMR is cheaper every hour today it seems ... How low will we go this time!!?? 0.0018?  Shocked

btc up, most alts down.

I have no answer to your question.

I have sold 0 Monero.  For now the btc I earn playing poker is for buying Monero.  Therefore I have no answer as to when the btc I currently have earmarked will be traded for Monero.

No I won't lose it, that's impossible.

May i ask where you play?
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