Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1328. (Read 3313786 times)

This market is so small it is really tempting to play myself but I know how that will end. On poloniex the leverage offered is 2.5:1? So just owning 20000 coins lets you double the bid side of the order book down to 0.0020 and also market buy another 25k coins into the ask side to keep up the pressure. The converse is true if you want the price to fall instead.

If I can conceivably move this market with my paltry holdings then imagine how easily manipulated it could be for someone with several hundred btc in XMR or simply sat on exchange.

One big green candle into 0.003 area and suddenly the chart looks like still in uptrend. One big red candle down and suddenly the world is ending.

Place your bets!

Slightly off topic (however XMR trading affected of course) but a really interesting and honest story about the triple (!) ShapeShift hack, written by Erik Voorhees himself:

https://news.bitcoin.com/looting-fox-sabotage-shapeshift/

I didn't think this was addressable in any situation. It's easily seen on polo and in general in everyday life. Shortsightedness and personal greed is a disease that should have been bred out of the human race. And if it does not become a thing of the past we will join the dinosaurs.

...
4) Please stop trolling us.

Slightly off topic (however XMR trading affected of course) but a really interesting and honest story about the triple (!) ShapeShift hack, written by Erik Voorhees himself:

https://news.bitcoin.com/looting-fox-sabotage-shapeshift/

Most of what has been dumped in the last 30 minutes or so are shorts:

http://monerodice.pd.to/polo.php

266k -> 256k.

As far as I can see, Monero has not solved the Tragedy of the Commons in Satoshi's design. I reiterated my rebuttal to ArticMine:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14599446

[he "black market" arguments assume that the only source of oppression is from governments....

Trump's Plan for Making Financial Black Markets Great Again

Donald Trump's plan to not only build a y-u-u-u-ge wall along the border with Mexico, but make our neighbor to the South pick up the tab for construction (at padded government rates, no doubt) is supposed to be an example of his think-outside-the-box policy genius.

And a special genius it is. Trump may have stumbled on an effective scheme for reviving flagging Mexican interest in seeking economic opportunity in the United States. And he seems to have hit on a brilliant stimulus for building underground financial markets.

[snip]

Capital controls aren't new, and people around the world have grown proficient at making sure their money gets from Point A to Point B, no matter what the Donald Trumps of the world say.

One possible workaround is that migrants could smuggle—or pay somebody else (think criminal networks) to smuggle—physical cash back to Mexico. That's a bit risky and crude, though, to the point that elegant alternatives have existed for centuries.

"Migrant workers can also send money home via transfer systems, like the hawala system in the Middle East and India, that use a series of brokers to transfer money without having to physically send it abroad," notes Vox.com's Dara Lind.

But technology has cleared the way for even easier transmission of money, Lind adds. "In Africa, for example, where transaction fees on remittances tend to be highest (13 percent of remittances get eaten up in fees), people have started sending money directly by cellphone for much lower fees than banks charge."

Or people could game Trump's restrictions by bypassing the strict letter of the rules.

"The most obvious way around the new provision would be for those who can prove legal residency to send the money for those who cannot," writes Mary Anastasia O'Grady for the Wall Street Journal. "But wire transfers are only one way of moving money. It could also be deposited in a U.S. bank and withdrawn from automatic teller machines in Mexico by intended recipients."

And even higher-tech workarounds are available to people committed to controlling and using their money as they please. In 2013, the Adam Smith Institute's Tim Worstall marveled at Forbes that "Bitcoin was a great way to beat such attempts to limit your freedom to move your money where you want it to be."

Sure enough, it wasn't long before a growing number of people in places including Argentina and China were using the relatively anonymous and difficult to track digital currency to evade capital controls and bogus official exchange rates.

"Argentines are conducting an ambitious experiment, one that threatens ultimately to spread to the United States and disrupt some of the most basic services its banks have to offer," The New York Times cautioned....

as usual u all assume that monero will perform as advertised. even if it does, dozen of other more capable and popular coin are implementing anonymity too.
so, i still think that monero could be irrelevant in few years if there is no improvement.

as usual u all assume that monero will perform as advertised. even if it does, dozen of other more capable and popular coin are implementing anonymity too.
so, i still think that monero could be irrelevant in few years if there is no improvement.

The "black market" arguments assume that the only source of oppression is from governments. The current reality is that a very significant amount of censorship and oppression is from entrenched corporate power. Some examples:
1) WikiLeaks suffered an economic blockade that was orchestrated illegally by Visa, MasterCard, Paypal and a host of major banks. There nothing "black market" about using Monero do an end run around an illegal corporate economic blockade.
2) Apple used DRM to censor the teachings of the Dali Lama, and has used DRM to censor all sorts of free speech. It used DRM to censor Bitcoin from 2009 - 2014 and is currently using DRM to censor Monero.
3) Amazon used DRM to censor George Orwell's 1984.
4) The MPAA and host of corporate interests tried to push the SOPA Internet censorship bill through the US Congress. When that failed they turned to waging a clandestine war against free speech and civil liberties on the Internet by attacking Google using Attorney Generals at the state level. The ultimate irony is that this attack on freedom and civil liberties was exposed as a result of the Sony server hacks. These hacks have been attributed to the Government of North Korea. The fact that even one of the most oppressive governments on the planet can strike such a worldwide blow for freedom and civil liberties illustrates the true evil in the MPAA.
I can continue but there are many "white market" products and services that are currently censored by entrenched corporate power to provided a major market for Moenro .

The "black market" arguments assume that the only source of oppression is from governments. The current reality is that a very significant amount of censorship and oppression is from entrenched corporate power. Some examples:
1) WikiLeaks suffered an economic blockade that was orchestrated illegally by Visa, MasterCard, Paypal and a host of major banks. There nothing "black market" about using Monero do an end run around an illegal corporate economic blockade.
2) Apple used DRM to censor the teachings of the Dali Lama, and has used DRM to censor all sorts of free speech. It used DRM to censor Bitcoin from 2009 - 2014 and is currently using DRM to censor Monero.
3) Amazon used DRM to censor George Orwell's 1984.
4) The MPAA and host of corporate interests tried to push the SOPA Internet censorship bill through the US Congress. When that failed they turned to waging a clandestine war against free speech and civil liberties on the Internet by attacking Google using Attorney Generals at the state level. The ultimate irony is that this attack on freedom and civil liberties was exposed as a result of the Sony server hacks. These hacks have been attributed to the Government of North Korea. The fact that even one of the most oppressive governments on the planet can strike such a worldwide blow for freedom and civil liberties illustrates the true evil in the MPAA.
I can continue but there are many "white market" products and services that are currently censored by entrenched corporate power to provide a major market for Moenro .

Uhhhh...actually, it benefits the black marketeer more than it benefits the average Joe. And this is where we enter a somewhat thorny zone, relating to the fate of the United States and other advanced economies.

Do you think that Donald Trump is a monster? Do you think his plan to build a wall for which "Mexico will pay for it" via confiscating remittances is monstrous? If so, then you're implicitly rooting for illegal immigrants to join a black market - a black market for remittances.

Do you think that the cashless society would be an Edward-Snowden nightmare? If so, then you're implicitly rooting for ordinary Joes to (partially) join a black market - a black market for regular goods and services that the future authorities have red-flagged. Those "regular goods and services" might be as innocuous as certain frowned-upon books. Look at the mileage that Bill Nye the Censor Guy has gotten for his proposal to jail "deniers."

It's speculative political questions like these which keep me interested in Monero. I could be wrong, and I admit that I'm a sucker for certain varieties of declinism. But all is not well in Pleasantville, and Monero - even if its use cases are solely confined to "real" black markets - can be seen as a kind of escape hatch for ordinary Joes if they need to hide what they do with their money.

uh... u were missing the point, the point is that no one care to use Monero if there is no improvement aside from anonimity. so what if Monero has the ultimate best anonimity anonimity benefit scammer more than it benefit regular joe.

This market is so small it is really tempting to play myself but I know how that will end. On poloniex the leverage offered is 2.5:1? So just owning 20000 coins lets you double the bid side of the order book down to 0.0020 and also market buy another 25k coins into the ask side to keep up the pressure. The converse is true if you want the price to fall instead.

If I can conceivably move this market with my paltry holdings then imagine how easily manipulated it could be for someone with several hundred btc in XMR or simply sat on exchange.

One big green candle into 0.003 area and suddenly the chart looks like still in uptrend. One big red candle down and suddenly the world is ending.

Place your bets!