Author

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1894. (Read 3314330 times)

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
May 21, 2015, 01:28:12 AM
Smooth, you are far too hard on Busoni.  No one is going to lose coins.  They will just be limited in the rate of withdrawal.

No, the limited rate is 0 if you don't verify level one. That's a change to the terms. There should be an opt out, or a least a notice decent period.

I'd have far less of an issue with it just being rate limited, but that's not what happened.



 
 
smooth, we have to assume that the people running Polo are rational players who don't want to piss off their customers.  They had to have known that making these changes happen within two days was going to do that. 
 
It makes no sense for them, either socially or financially to *want* to piss off their customers. 
 
Polo denies it up and down, but the timing coupled with the fact that they stay silent everyone someone asks them to explain why they choose to implement this policy in two days suggests to me that their hand was forced, and likely they can't discuss it openly. 
 
There is simply no way they would flagrantly pee on their customers like that without good reason.  These aren't asshat bankers; they are crypto true believers who recognized the appeal of XMR so much they featured it heavily. 
 
So I think we should be mad at the situation, but not blame Polo too much.  It really doesn't feel like their fault.

Lol. I didn't realize this needed to be said. I though everyone just knew this. But uh if it does than, yea, all of that ^
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
May 21, 2015, 01:24:09 AM
2k per diem rate cap at level 1 has no documentation requirement.

It has a self-identification requirement, which means you give up your information, commit fraud, or give up your coins. Not much of an out.



Yeah, that's pretty much how I read it as well. I could lie about my name, and probably get away with it, but when I read that clause that says I forfeit my funds if I provide fraudulent information...

I'm just glad I was able to exit in an orderly fashion.

(*EDIT* -- I would just like to make it clear that I have no reason to lie about my identity. I've done nothing wrong. Also, I have no obligation to provide that information.

It's that potential withholding of funds pending identification I think is what smooth is rightfully upset about.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 21, 2015, 01:20:23 AM
2k per diem rate cap at level 1 has no documentation requirement.

It has a self-identification requirement, which means you give up your information, commit fraud, or give up your coins. Not much of an out.

Furthermore the "open letter" that was supposedly in response to the community backlash was little more than a marketing vehicle ("we hope it won't overshadow margin trading?" -- wtf? do they really think we are that stupid?) and not addressing the actual concerns at all. If you are gagged, then just shut the fuck up, or at least apologize for the inconvenience (they didn't) and stop trying to tell us how great margin trading is.

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 21, 2015, 01:19:51 AM
2k per diem rate cap at level 1 has no documentation requirement.

It has a self-identification requirement, which means you give up your information, commit fraud, or give up your coins. Not much of an out.

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 21, 2015, 01:18:22 AM
It makes no sense for them, either socially or financially to *want* to piss off their customers. 

And, yet, companies fuck up in ways that don't really make sense all the time.

The gag order is possible, but if so I don't care.

They still fucked up and fucked their customers by not foreseeing it and taking action earlier.

I actually consider it more likely they just rushed it in order to bundle it with the margin trading rollout. With a legal order they probably wouldn't have given any notice.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
May 21, 2015, 01:17:50 AM
2k per diem rate cap at level 1 has no documentation requirement.  In principle I agree that a ToS change merits a better grace period, but in practice no one is likely to suffer any actual harm.  Thus I will reserve my f-bombs for another day.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
May 21, 2015, 01:13:25 AM
Smooth, you are far too hard on Busoni.  No one is going to lose coins.  They will just be limited in the rate of withdrawal.

No, the limited rate is 0 if you don't verify level one. That's a change to the terms. There should be an opt out, or a least a notice decent period.

I'd have far less of an issue with it just being rate limited, but that's not what happened.



 
 
smooth, we have to assume that the people running Polo are rational players who don't want to piss off their customers.  They had to have known that making these changes happen within two days was going to do that. 
 
It makes no sense for them, either socially or financially to *want* to piss off their customers. 
 
Polo denies it up and down, but the timing coupled with the fact that they stay silent everyone someone asks them to explain why they choose to implement this policy in two days suggests to me that their hand was forced, and likely they can't discuss it openly. 
 
There is simply no way they would flagrantly pee on their customers like that without good reason.  These aren't asshat bankers; they are crypto true believers who recognized the appeal of XMR so much they featured it heavily. 
 
So I think we should be mad at the situation, but not blame Polo too much.  It really doesn't feel like their fault.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 21, 2015, 01:07:10 AM
Smooth, you are far too hard on Busoni.  No one is going to lose coins.  They will just be limited in the rate of withdrawal.

No, the limited rate is 0 if you don't verify level one. That's a change to the terms. There should be an opt out (closing account and refunding coins), or a least a decent notice period.

People were on the trollbox a little while ago complaining they hadn't seen it and it had already gone into effect (based on UTC)

I'd have far less of an issue with it just being rate limited, but that's not what happened.

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
May 21, 2015, 01:04:44 AM
Smooth, you are far too hard on Busoni.  No one is going to lose coins.  They will just be limited in the rate of withdrawal.  In fact the limits are high enough so that perhaps no one in xmr will actually encounter them in practice, given current xmr distribution and price.

I had far too many coins there, and this served as a needed prompting to reduce that number, so I closed out of plx entirely.  Then I openned a new acct and verified for a 25k usd per diem cap, in case I should ever need to use plx liquidity in an emergency.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
May 21, 2015, 12:33:33 AM
I created a pretty elaborate technical video demonstrating my thoughts in light of the recent leveraged "short" dumps that are occurring on Poloniex.   Grin 
 
https://youtu.be/PD5Imb7vWSc

the short sellers might retort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NupxasQWs
 
 
I laughed my ass off, thanks.  Not sure how I haven't seen that before.

you and i both man. i laughed so hard when i first saw that. one of those sorts of laughs you only get to experience a hand full of times in your life.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
May 21, 2015, 12:14:49 AM
I created a pretty elaborate technical video demonstrating my thoughts in light of the recent leveraged "short" dumps that are occurring on Poloniex.   Grin 
 
https://youtu.be/PD5Imb7vWSc

the short sellers might retort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NupxasQWs
 
 
I laughed my ass off, thanks.  Not sure how I haven't seen that before.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
May 21, 2015, 12:11:17 AM
I created a pretty elaborate technical video demonstrating my thoughts in light of the recent leveraged "short" dumps that are occurring on Poloniex.   Grin  
  
https://youtu.be/PD5Imb7vWSc

the bears might retort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NupxasQWs
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
May 20, 2015, 11:50:31 PM
I created a pretty elaborate technical video demonstrating my thoughts in light of the recent leveraged "short" dumps that are occurring on Poloniex.   Grin 
 
https://youtu.be/PD5Imb7vWSc
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
May 20, 2015, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Poloniex
When you lend to other users using the Platform’s P2P lending system, you risk the loss of an unpaid principle if the borrower defaults on a loan and liquidation of the borrower's account fails to raise sufficient funds to cover his or her debt.

Be warned.

Also, Poloniex, if you're reading this, check your spelling.


How could this be?  Wouldnt the algorithm liquidate the position prior to any loses for investors?

Has anyone ever lost BTC lending on finex?

A margin call on a short is basically a market buy order. Now there are over 30,000 XMR on loan offer. Try buying 30,000 XMR at market. It actually gets better. Let us say some long term XMR investor smells short blood and decides to market buy by taking out a fake sell wall.  If there are significant over leveraged short positions the resulting short squeeze can easilly set off a buying panic and the shorts cannot be covered without a loss to the lenders.
legendary
Activity: 1105
Merit: 1000
May 20, 2015, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: Poloniex
When you lend to other users using the Platform’s P2P lending system, you risk the loss of an unpaid principle if the borrower defaults on a loan and liquidation of the borrower's account fails to raise sufficient funds to cover his or her debt.

Be warned.

Also, Poloniex, if you're reading this, check your spelling.


I don't know about you, but I'd love to get paid for my principles.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 20, 2015, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: Poloniex
When you lend to other users using the Platform’s P2P lending system, you risk the loss of an unpaid principle if the borrower defaults on a loan and liquidation of the borrower's account fails to raise sufficient funds to cover his or her debt.

Be warned.

Also, Poloniex, if you're reading this, check your spelling.


How could this be?  Wouldnt the algorithm liquidate the position prior to any loses for investors?

Evan gets hit by a bus.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
May 20, 2015, 10:45:21 PM
Quote from: Poloniex
When you lend to other users using the Platform’s P2P lending system, you risk the loss of an unpaid principle if the borrower defaults on a loan and liquidation of the borrower's account fails to raise sufficient funds to cover his or her debt.

Be warned.

Also, Poloniex, if you're reading this, check your spelling.


How could this be?  Wouldnt the algorithm liquidate the position prior to any loses for investors?

Has anyone ever lost BTC lending on finex?
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
May 20, 2015, 10:16:55 PM
I believe that once the Polo-exodus is over (soon), we are going to see sentiment shift from bearish to positive again.  
  
Once sentiment shifts, something awesome is going to happen.  XMR will start to trickle up, and people will enviously eye the positive returns it is generating.  
  
Wildcard: XMR holders can leverage their XMR to buy more XMR..  This is unwise, but will happen anyway.  All it's going to take is the first good green candle or two, and people will say, "Hey, Monero is going up.  I want more."  (Remember that climb to 260 a few days ago?)  
  
Before when their warchest of powder ran out, they were dry and couldn't buy anymore.  But now they have leverage.... a LOT of leverage.  2.5x to every Polo customer is nuts.  And this is going to cause people to jump on the Monero bandwagon quick.  
  
So we are not only going to see any short positions get vaporized pretty quickly, but soon afterwards the madness will truly begin.  After all, if Monero only goes up, lets leverage harder!  We can just close those positions out later anyway.  
  
Basically, I'm forseeing a temporary XMR bubble forming over the coming couple of weeks/month based off this new leverage that Polo has extended everyone.  It's going to be a fun ride... unless you accidentally get caught at the top.   Be careful, and don't buy more on Margin than you can afford to lose.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 20, 2015, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: Poloniex
When you lend to other users using the Platform’s P2P lending system, you risk the loss of an unpaid principle if the borrower defaults on a loan and liquidation of the borrower's account fails to raise sufficient funds to cover his or her debt.

Be warned.

Also, Poloniex, if you're reading this, check your spelling.
sr. member
Activity: 770
Merit: 250
May 20, 2015, 10:09:41 PM
I believe some of these trolls like mrkavaski are truly ill..

Calm trolling most of the time, then Boom, explosive trolling out of nowhere.
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