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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 458. (Read 3314301 times)

full member
Activity: 200
Merit: 114
November 30, 2017, 01:08:26 PM
We have a slight correction for a day so far and everyone is talking about a longterm bear market. We've had so many of these 10-20% corrections in the last 6 months, so what are the indicators that you are seeing that this might be different? Even if it goes for a week or two.

Especially with the CME futures trading coming up this month, it's likely we will see a lot more bullish moves.

This is an interesting analysis somebody recently posted at /r/bitcoin:

Quote
I thought I’d share some of my stock market knowledge to help my fellow HODLers get a perspective on the CME futures that will be launching soon.
First let me explain a bit of history: in 1982 CME group launched futures on the S&P500.
What happened next? The stock market went on a spectacular run for 5 years until it eventually crashed in 1987.
Why does this matter for Bitcoin? Because I believe a similar story is about to unfold. This story is the fundamental story about adding leverage to a new underlying asset.
Bitcoin is a relatively “unleveraged” asset as compared to other financial assets. It’s new, it’s untainted. This is significant because of the mechanics of market prices and the future potential of market prices.

When something enters a levering stage, like Bitcoin is about to, the mechanics of the market are HEAVILY weighted to the buy side and not the sell side. Why? Because to be a seller you MUST be a previous buyer (or if you’re shorting, the supply comes from a previous buyer). This may sound weird, but the potential capacity to sell is a function of those who previously bought. This is why in an early market like Bitcoin it’s very hard for it to consistently fall as there’s not a lot of buyers yet built into the price. It takes years and years of accumulation and volatility to create a normalized market. When it’s new, especially pre leverage, it’s very easy to bid it up.
When the CME futures are added, it will likely lead to spectacular rallies, but you need to arm yourself with the knowledge that the eventual buying will plant the seeds of the future capacity to panic.

This is what happened in 1987: The stock market had a 3 day wipeout of over 22%. It took 5 years to develop the buy side enough to create the conditions for panic. This was caused by the CME futures in 1982.
Even since 1987, there has never been a crash of similar magnitude, because that initial levering stage was eventually normalized and a healthy market now exists on both bid side and ask side (sell side).

Why do I tell you this? I want to arm you with expectations to keep your wits when it all goes down. The crash on Bitcoin will likely be of many magnitudes deadlier than the stock market. We just had a 29% correction and it was frankly less than the last two. 20-40% corrections are standard in Bitcoin. When we have the futures levered crash, it’ll likely be 50-60%+. This will be hard on your psychological commitment. Prices do funny things to people’s perception, just like how BCH rose and now suddenly everyone thinks it’s a BTC contender. (Nothing’s changed, price was just pumped up and psychology affected.)

So first thing: prepare for that eventual crash, I suspect it’ll take 1-3 years to create the conditions for an extreme sell side due to leveraging. This sell will start and accelerate, hitting stop losses and margin calls, which is “mechanical selling”. The mechanical selling (forced selling) will cascade and create a feedback loop where more margin calls are hit, more stop losses, etc etc until almost all profits of the last year or 2 are wiped. Combined with the emotional panic caused by extreme falling prices, it will make people think Bitcoin isn’t real and abandon it.

Next thing: the 1987 crash, while devastating in many ways, was completely recovered by the stock market in 8 months. Seriously! The worst crash ever was repaired in 8 months and the market has been much more healthy since then. It is up dramatically since those days, and that crash was just a blip on the screen.
The same will happen with Bitcoin, but my fear is that crash will be worse than even wallsteeters can handle, and it may shake you HODLers to the core.
But if you understand that the powerful selling is just a function of the leveraged previous buying, it’s just fundamentally an opportunity.
I will ride this hard as we lever up, and after an extreme period of euphoria, when Bitcoin is on every front page, when every HODLer owns a mansion, when your government-loving socialist neighbour is asking for your help converting money to Bitcoin, I’ll be lightening up heavily, waiting for the crash. I will bet everything at the bottom of the crash, and sail off into the sunset a crypto-god.

Good luck guys. I hope you weather the next 1-3 years with great savvy.
legendary
Activity: 2744
Merit: 1288
November 30, 2017, 12:53:35 PM
Any guesses how long this crash will take? The rise of crypto is over for 2017?

We might see BTC just going to $1 million in a year or so. Or we can see stops as it happened in past. Who knows.   All we know is that result will be same. BTC will be $1+ 10 years from now.     Everyoen shoudl buy as much quality crypto as can afford and sit and wait.


Bitcoin is now on eyes of anyone. And anyone can drive price up fast.



And by the way. I fell way better now that Monero is at $165 and all exchanges are close to that price, then 2 days ago when price was over $200.  Things are seems to back on tracks.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
November 30, 2017, 12:48:09 PM
Any guesses how long this crash will take? The rise of crypto is over for 2017?
Honestly, the "crash" is more of a "correction". I am going to guess that it will probably last a few days until it clears up and the market will regain much of the value it's losing.
member
Activity: 420
Merit: 10
November 30, 2017, 11:49:32 AM
Any guesses how long this crash will take? The rise of crypto is over for 2017?

all the crypto currency is growing, then falling. This coin has a very large potential. I think that in 2018 we will be able to earn money on this coin again. It is necessary to be able to wait
sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 258
November 30, 2017, 10:21:17 AM
Any guesses how long this crash will take? The rise of crypto is over for 2017?
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
November 30, 2017, 09:42:14 AM
I think in the short term we will see a decline but it won't go back down below $100.

But in the long term this news about Coinbase handing over records to the IRS is going to make people wake up and realize that they need to have an anonymous coin where you can't track funds or see what is in peoples wallets.
Do we still want Monero on Coinbase?

Absolutely! Coinbase has more accounts than Charles Schwabb online, which makes it the perfect on-ramp for Monero.  Where it goes once it leaves Coinbase is out of their control and is totally private from that point on. Governments may be able to control the on and off ramps but they can't control the technology.

If that happens, we will be in for quite a ride!   Grin
 
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
November 30, 2017, 09:36:52 AM

Out of btc or XMR?

Both, which guarantees a rise. Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 258
November 30, 2017, 09:35:55 AM
Don't worry guys. You'll be fine.

TBH, I hope dash makes it to the 2nd spot, or even #1. I'd like to see if dash's cult logic scales.

LOL, that was a coffee spitter! Smiley

I start to get all sorts of emails from trading advisors that we should get out of crypto. Specially after the downfall from yesterday, that the downrisk is just to big. Maybe I am a fool but I don't want to sell, I believe there is a lot more to come, specially for xmr. So much more to come with kovri, hardware wallet... But if Bitcoin fails, we go down as well. So I dont know if I am a fool or not to believe that 1000 USD for 1 xmr is possible. But then Bitcoin must keep on growing...

BTC is up so much you have to expect a retrace but it seems ever time its a retrace its actually a shakout. But I have no idea so i got out for now.

I think in the short term we will see a decline but it won't go back down below $100.

But in the long term this news about Coinbase handing over records to the IRS is going to make people wake up and realize that they need to have an anonymous coin where you can't track funds or see what is in peoples wallets.
Do we still want Monero on Coinbase?

I do, I'm not hiding anything and I need a fiat/xmr portal i can trust.

Out of btc or XMR?
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
November 30, 2017, 09:19:32 AM
Don't worry guys. You'll be fine.

TBH, I hope dash makes it to the 2nd spot, or even #1. I'd like to see if dash's cult logic scales.

LOL, that was a coffee spitter! Smiley

I start to get all sorts of emails from trading advisors that we should get out of crypto. Specially after the downfall from yesterday, that the downrisk is just to big. Maybe I am a fool but I don't want to sell, I believe there is a lot more to come, specially for xmr. So much more to come with kovri, hardware wallet... But if Bitcoin fails, we go down as well. So I dont know if I am a fool or not to believe that 1000 USD for 1 xmr is possible. But then Bitcoin must keep on growing...

BTC is up so much you have to expect a retrace but it seems ever time its a retrace its actually a shakout. But I have no idea so i got out for now.

I think in the short term we will see a decline but it won't go back down below $100.

But in the long term this news about Coinbase handing over records to the IRS is going to make people wake up and realize that they need to have an anonymous coin where you can't track funds or see what is in peoples wallets.
Do we still want Monero on Coinbase?

I do, I'm not hiding anything and I need a fiat/xmr portal i can trust.
full member
Activity: 406
Merit: 105
Chosŏn Minjujuŭi Inmin Konghwaguk
November 30, 2017, 08:54:40 AM
I think in the short term we will see a decline but it won't go back down below $100.

But in the long term this news about Coinbase handing over records to the IRS is going to make people wake up and realize that they need to have an anonymous coin where you can't track funds or see what is in peoples wallets.
Do we still want Monero on Coinbase?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
November 30, 2017, 08:53:56 AM
I think in the short term we will see a decline but it won't go back down below $100.

But in the long term this news about Coinbase handing over records to the IRS is going to make people wake up and realize that they need to have an anonymous coin where you can't track funds or see what is in peoples wallets.
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 250
November 30, 2017, 06:54:00 AM
I start to get all sorts of emails from trading advisors that we should get out of crypto. Specially after the downfall from yesterday, that the downrisk is just to big. Maybe I am a fool but I don't want to sell, I believe there is a lot more to come, specially for xmr. So much more to come with kovri, hardware wallet... But if Bitcoin fails, we go down as well. So I dont know if I am a fool or not to believe that 1000 USD for 1 xmr is possible. But then Bitcoin must keep on growing...
trading advisors are looking at BTC as they look to the stocks they are used to. It´s overbought - yes, loosing momentum, yes and yes for any other indicators i don´t even know the name. but the diference is that the market cap of crypto is still very small, so lots of money to come in, and the tecnology itself won´t go away. So hopefully it will correct as it did before for 6 or even 4 k levels ( XMR as well so i can buy more) but then will keep growing. Until when IDK.
full member
Activity: 798
Merit: 103
November 30, 2017, 06:39:03 AM
I start to get all sorts of emails from trading advisors that we should get out of crypto. Specially after the downfall from yesterday, that the downrisk is just to big. Maybe I am a fool but I don't want to sell, I believe there is a lot more to come, specially for xmr. So much more to come with kovri, hardware wallet... But if Bitcoin fails, we go down as well. So I dont know if I am a fool or not to believe that 1000 USD for 1 xmr is possible. But then Bitcoin must keep on growing...
I think BTC is going to fall more. The coins are going to lose value compare to USD, but you may be able to grab more BTC with XMR or other altcoins.
sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 258
November 30, 2017, 06:35:23 AM
I start to get all sorts of emails from trading advisors that we should get out of crypto. Specially after the downfall from yesterday, that the downrisk is just to big. Maybe I am a fool but I don't want to sell, I believe there is a lot more to come, specially for xmr. So much more to come with kovri, hardware wallet... But if Bitcoin fails, we go down as well. So I dont know if I am a fool or not to believe that 1000 USD for 1 xmr is possible. But then Bitcoin must keep on growing...
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
November 30, 2017, 05:00:30 AM
Don't worry guys. You'll be fine.

TBH, I hope dash makes it to the 2nd spot, or even #1. I'd like to see if dash's cult logic scales.

Ah, the Dash scaling problem.  In a nutshell, the issue is that ultimately not enough people can be fooled into keeping it going.

I think they actually hope we'll weed out those who would question them before they get involved, because the worst thing for them is if they get someone involved and they start questioning how dash works when they are in a position to raise awareness within the group.

It would explain why they actually are on the xmr thread provoking a reaction.

Icebreaker is probably doing them a huge service when he gets on their thread and criticizes dash as he can be dismissed as a "hater," but still manages to push rational investors aside before they get too involved.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1748
November 30, 2017, 04:38:06 AM
Don't worry guys. You'll be fine.

TBH, I hope dash makes it to the 2nd spot, or even #1. I'd like to see if dash's cult logic scales.

Ah, the Dash scaling problem.  In a nutshell, the issue is that ultimately not enough people can be fooled into keeping it going.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
November 30, 2017, 04:19:10 AM
Don't worry guys. You'll be fine.

TBH, I hope dash makes it to the 2nd spot, or even #1. I'd like to see if dash's cult logic scales.
hero member
Activity: 615
Merit: 501
November 30, 2017, 04:15:42 AM
Don't worry guys. You'll be fine.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
November 30, 2017, 03:51:53 AM

"yes, having one guy own a 1000 nodes in 5 amazon hosting locations is decentralized."  Roll Eyes


 Roll Eyes
Still FUDing after all these years.  

Decentralized governance means that ownership is decentralized, not that the nodes are scattered over amazon servers. That's factual.

Still not sure if you are stupid or a liar, but glad you still feel the need to watch this thread.
legendary
Activity: 1182
Merit: 1000
November 30, 2017, 03:46:41 AM

"yes, having one guy own a 1000 nodes in 5 amazon hosting locations is decentralized."  Roll Eyes


 Roll Eyes
Still FUDing after all these years. 
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