Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 937. (Read 3314350 times)

Umm... point is, anything you can pay for with bitcoin you can buy with Monero using XMR.TO

So it's kind of a meaningless question, really: the answer is pretty much "anything you want"

He said what, not how

How's your Zcash doing?

I am curious to know what are you buying with Monero?

I am curious to know what are you buying with Monero?

....He said what, not how

I am curious to know what are you buying with Monero?

I don't sell Monero, I spend it. Of course I have a holding stash and a spending stash, you might say. It makes me feel good to do at least one Monero transaction per day. Buying, selling, just keep the funds moving! Using Monero is what makes the economy grow. It's fantastic.

Zcash + syscoin together.. real decentralized marketplace with real anon... how will xmr react? Stay tuned...

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

Don't worry - you're in the right place.  But XMR is anti-fragile, it can be shorted, therefore it only survives because it is good enough that people want to buy it.

This testing makes it strong and real.

It is unlike any other cryptocoin.

And it is growing in stature, just as Bitcoin did.

Let them sell and if the price is right we will buy.

I agree with all of that, and also KoziTwo's explanation, but what about simply selling with no intention of buying back, for example following Risto's Simple Saving System and selling X% of one's holdings after every Y-fold increase in price. That sounds sensible from a personal perspective, but wouldn't it be harmful to the project if all of the hodlers did that? Am I the only one who feels guilty when they sell moneroj? Maybe my error is thinking of Monero as a fragile thing that needs protecting. . .

Shorters (and their lenders) help Monero by

1)  Aiding stability and price discovery by providing liquidity, thus absorbing volatility and smoothing out spikes/dips, as KoziTwo explained in detail

2)  Encouraging wider distribution by filling bids when someone wants to borrow and dump, which aids Network Effect (Nielsen)

3)  Causing economic illiterates ("zomg I hate teh nasty shorters and hope tey get h4x0rd1!1!!") to self identify

4)  Increasing profits of the facilitating exchange; IE Polo benefits not only from XMR activity but also the ETH, etc. volume attracted as well, which encourages more exchange adaption via profit motive (you know the other exchanges are mad/jealous Polo is eating 41% of their ETH lunch while they fight over the leftovers)

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

+1

There's this common misconception about people selling (or worse: shorting) that they are hurting the coin. You'll notice that people who are bearish tend to get more hate directed towards them. It makes perfect sense, because if you hold and the price is going down it hurts. And who's causing the price to go down? Well obviously sellers/shorters. Shorters becomes an enemy to blame for ones own losses, an outlet for all the frustration that builds up during a long drawn out and bloody beartrend.

While it's easy to fall victim to this sort of thinking I believe this view is narrow minded and here's why:
Without opposing forces the price may go higher, but it will be on low volume and the crashes will be much deeper. In a sense the price becomes more artificial the less volume is involved and the less liquidity is available. Sellers/shorters provide a very important function in the market, that is: liquidity which prevents the price from going too high, and also liqudity that prevents the price from going too low (shorters must close their short, traders who sell buy back). These opposing forces work beautifully to stabilize a market and avoid even higher and lower spikes that we would have had without them. The more opposing forces in a market the more stable it becomes. Stability is GOOD for the coin, not bad.

Can we think of any example where there are no sellers and shorters? Yes. Zcash. There was almost zero supply as it launched and no way to properly short, and the consequence of that was a launching price that went beyond 2 million USD. The ATH has been set and we'll never see prices even remotely close. If there had been sufficient amount of sellers or shorters, this would not have happened, the price would have reflected reality better. I don't think it's heatlhy for any coin to have such raises like we've seen in zcash. And as we've just witnessed, without sellers/shorters, that's what you're gonna get.

@ TC ...  I disagree, for the reasons you underlined (and I just bolded )  ... B has to buy back to repay A at some point, creating buying pressure somewhere down the line. A, by lending out his coins to B to short is implicitly showing no desire to sell at that price. If A were to sell, they may or may not buy back in. The immediate effect is the more or less the same, but the longer term effects have the potential to be significantly different.

It can be used to dump which shakes confidence and weak hands follow that trend, it hurts the coin. Most people don't check to see whats being lent when they are watching a dump and panicking. I understand your only motive is profit so whatever. If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.