Your cryptocoins were stolen and you called the police? WTF? Are you serious? - page 2.

Gabi

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1008

If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on July 28, 2012, 06:08:25 PM

People still don't completely understand what cryptocoins are. They were created out of any government control (even against it) but ex-owners of stolen coins expect to get support of a government. But it has no sense!

I wasn't happy to read about recent Bitcoinica hack. Of coz, victims should ask the police for help to return money, but ONLY FIAT MONEY. Noone ought to mention bitcoins, coz every user of cryptocoins should understand that they outside the law. I pay taxes and I don't want them to be spent for salary of a police officer who investigates a case related to cryptocoins.

I don't know English good enough to explain very sophisticated ideas, but I hope u got me.

Nonsense

We pay TAXES wich also serve for the police service. So yes, if someone steal something from you, you should call the police because you know, you pay TAXES for that.

paraipan

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Activity: 924

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Firstbits: 1pirata

Quote from: molecular on July 29, 2012, 05:48:53 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 28, 2012, 06:12:37 PM

Property is property

You steal username/password to an online game from me and sell the account I am going to call the Police.

what if I guess your username/password?

What if you guess he's wifi password, bank login or the pin number of the house alarm?

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: unclemantis on July 28, 2012, 06:22:06 PM

Hey cops! Some guy stole my math equations that are worth on the black market xxx usd

These documents are property of the state department. We demand they be returned immediately!

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 28, 2012, 06:12:37 PM

Property is property

You steal username/password to an online game from me and sell the account I am going to call the Police.

what if I guess your username/password?

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: tvbcof on July 29, 2012, 01:08:47 AM

Heh. You mean like Blackwater in Iraq? I suppose that the meaning of 'civil liberties' could eventually be managed down to a point where it is OK to randomly shoot at cars for the fun of it and run down people who are close enough to the street that it is doable without swerving to much.

Blackwater was given the legal right to use force by a government which paid and protected it in exchange for that force.

paraipan

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Activity: 924

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Firstbits: 1pirata

Quote from: Kluge on July 29, 2012, 01:17:50 AM

What the Hell were we talking about again?

Oh - why call the police? That's an easy one. Private companies are often unwilling to provide information or do an internal investigation without a court order, which pretty much necessitates involving the police. So.... why involve the police? - I want my $5k worth of BTC back. That's not an endorsement of government, just simple greed and common sense.

+1 exact reason in bold

ninjarobot

hero member

Activity: 761

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Mine Silent, Mine Deep

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on July 28, 2012, 08:55:28 PM

Here's an easy way to remember which term to use: libertarians have jobs and take showers, anarchists just mooch and smell bad.

That is funny, since just the other day I was listening to an anarchist that *does* have a job and takes showers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbyF_17GTNA&feature=youtu.be#t=20m38s

Kluge

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1015

What the Hell were we talking about again?

Oh - why call the police? That's an easy one. Private companies are often unwilling to provide information or do an internal investigation without a court order, which pretty much necessitates involving the police. So.... why involve the police? - I want my $5k worth of BTC back. That's not an endorsement of government, just simple greed and common sense.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

I think theres some misunderstanding about "peace officers" and "law enforcement officers". Peace officers are a necessary part of civil society to deal with crimes while "leo's" enforce the arbitrary dictates of the state.

It sucks that police officers today have to combine both duties rather than being strictly used for crime fighting.

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: BadBear on July 28, 2012, 09:41:56 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on July 28, 2012, 06:53:57 PM

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).

Heh. You mean like Blackwater in Iraq? I suppose that the meaning of 'civil liberties' could eventually be managed down to a point where it is OK to randomly shoot at cars for the fun of it and run down people who are close enough to the street that it is doable without swerving to much.

But back to the original point, I think it is appropriate (currently) to enlist the support of law enforcement on the basis of there being a general computer related crime. If the crime resulted in a demonstrable loss (and as long as exchanges are operational and legal this should be easy to demonstrate with some precision) then there is a basis for a fair judgement against loss. Plenty of my tax dollars go toward fighting various crimes including computer related ones...as long as the thief is not a well connected person like Jon Corzine that is.

alexanderanon

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: FlipPro on July 28, 2012, 10:27:48 PM

Quote from: BadBear on July 28, 2012, 09:41:56 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on July 28, 2012, 06:53:57 PM

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).

What makes you think Private companies won't commit the same violations to civil liberties?

They are controlled by money at the end of the day you know...

That's the perception of libertarian anarchism that kept me a libertarian minarchist for so long. There are no private companies with their own militia divisions paid for with "company profits", or any other sort of market-controlled police nonsense. There is merely reputation economics. Insurance on wide scale. You do something bad, everyone knows about it, and thus rates for any and all contracts rise accordingly. You do something really bad, like kill someone, you face a choice. Voluntary punishment, or exile: no one will do business with you.

And just as free market libertarians stole the term "libertarian" from the socialist libertarians, anarchist libertarians are stealing the term from minarchist libertarians. There is no "necessary evil". All states, by their nature, must grow and become tyrannies eventually. The growth of the US federal government, from the most restrained and controlled state in history, to now an enormous empire-building leviathan, is the perfect example of the failure of minarchist libertarianism.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

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Wat

Do mercenaries and hitmen accept bitcoins ?

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: FlipPro on July 28, 2012, 10:27:48 PM

What makes you think Private companies won't commit the same violations to civil liberties?

Two things:

1) They can't immunize their employees from retaliation the way a State can. The employees of a private company are fully personally responsible for their actions. Private companies have no right or ability to insulate their employees from the consequences of their actions.

2) When not socially accepted, the use of force is generally a losing proposition because all of civilized society will rebel against it. It's not like the company can keep secret their identity. The rest of society will refuse to do business with them, boycott their customers, and so on. (Unless the majority wants to go back to having a government, in which case, no system can stop a majority of force from forcing its way on everyone else.)

BadBear

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Activity: 1652

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Quote from: FlipPro on July 28, 2012, 10:27:48 PM

Quote from: BadBear on July 28, 2012, 09:41:56 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on July 28, 2012, 06:53:57 PM

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).

What makes you think Private companies won't commit the same violations to civil liberties?

They are controlled by money at the end of the day you know...

Yeah they could, should've stuck a maybe in there somewhere.

FlipPro

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1015

Quote from: BadBear on July 28, 2012, 09:41:56 PM

Quote from: alexanderanon on July 28, 2012, 06:53:57 PM

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).

What makes you think Private companies won't commit the same violations to civil liberties?

They are controlled by money at the end of the day you know...

BadBear

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1128

Quote from: alexanderanon on July 28, 2012, 06:53:57 PM

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

So what exactly is the problem with reporting the theft then? Even in an anarchist society there would be private security companies doing the job of the police (minus the many violations of civil liberties that's becoming common these days).

BkkCoins

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1009

firstbits:1MinerQ

The courts and police use DNA tests without fully understanding everything about that. Why would anyone need to explain how Bitcoin cryptography or transfer systems work? All they need to know to deal with a crime is that they were stolen, when, how and details like that.

It's not like art collectors have to prove why a Rembrandt has value or a historian has to explain the significance of an important document in order to report a crime of theft. It's not hard to point to the value of a Bitcoin.

Whether they can do anything depends on the circumstances. It's not like the brain power isn't out there. They do shutdown botnets and other complex stuff. Only a kid could entertain the notion that the police can't deal with Bitcoin.

Sant001

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: BadBear on July 28, 2012, 06:11:22 PM

Keep your politics/ideologies out of my bitcoins.

+1

repentance

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Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on July 28, 2012, 08:27:29 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on July 28, 2012, 06:19:18 PM

Now one thought exercise: I pay taxes and I DEMAND that the police investigates if I ever get "cryptocoins" stolen from me. What are you going to do about it?

You can't steal a number, despite what Sony's IP lawyers may have contended regarding 46-dc-ea-d3-17-fe-45-d8-09-23-eb-97-e4-95-64-10-d4-cd-b2-c2 (until proven wrong in a most humiliating public fashion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

If someone cleans out my online bank account they are transferring to themselves a set of numbers which they can then spend or redeem for cash. Those numbers to not correlate to specific $20 or $50 dollar bills which are "mine" - it is the transfer of value belonging to me (same applies to cash - I don't "own the bank notes in my wallet but the value the represent) which is the offence.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: alexanderanon on July 28, 2012, 08:41:19 PM

I use libertarian and anarchist interchangeably, because I assume my readers aren't so daft as to think I mean libertarian socialist, or collectivistic anarchist. There is only market anarchy.

Anarchists reject the need for, and inevitability of, a State.

Libertarians accept the need for, and inevitability of, a State (albeit a minimal, non-coersive one).

It's not a trivial difference, hence the terms are not interchangeable.

Readers who aren't daft will be confused, or tempted to correct such misuse.

The only place where libertarian means anarchist is France, for historical reasons.

Here's an easy way to remember which term to use: libertarians have jobs and take showers, anarchists just mooch and smell bad.

Topic: Your cryptocoins were stolen and you called the police? WTF? Are you serious? - page 2. (Read 6294 times)