Topic: ★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS] - page 115. (Read 1009334 times)

I can give a few counter examples where a swap put life into a coin that before the swap was followed only by a small group of people, like ZEIT now.
Take XDE2 for example, as this one is very related to ZEIT situation: they changed the total coinage, adjusted PoS rates and did the swap. Before the swap there were only 100 coins and a tiny PoS.
They wanted to extend the number of coins, increase the PoS for a while and made the fork. It worked fine, and the group of people that follow the coin increased. Also they didn't get delisted from any exchange.

I can also give few examples, from FIAT world, of countries where cutting three or four zeros, brought back people's value perception to the normal levels.

Last but not least, talking about 5 per each person on Earth sounds very megalomaniac to me, if we struggle to get 1BTC volume on all exchanges combined on a stable basis. Sorry, but that is ZEIT's reality and it has been like that over a long time already. If we aim for MASS ADOPTION that is exactly the argument against having so many coins and big numbers: things that are successful in a big scale have to be simple enough so that many can easily understand them. There are plenty examples of nice things that were misunderstood by people and thus never have been adopted in mass, although the inventors were rock-solid convinced that this was the idea.

Actually PoS will still be 5% until sometime around April of 2017.
Our Dev Rent_a_Ray is tied up until then.

So Stake now so you can get as much ZEIT as possible before the price starts rising.  

There will be a wallet update a few weeks, before the change happens.


 

In 4 days will be no more pos and price will go till 5 sat maybe  . It will be nice time .

Total Coins for Zeit is fine, just have to get the marketcap to grow
Maybe a Pool that mines scrypt coins that pays out in zeit would help with trade volume

It is an idea, a very bad idea.  

I think the part where I mention it would decrease Network Security is getting lost somewhere in our communications.  

If you want to see how little use a reverse swap can be, go over to Colossus coin , where they did a 20 to 1 reverse swap.
It made no difference for their coin whatsoever.

There are 7½ Billion People on the planet, I think having only ~4.9 coins per person is not an unreasonable stretch by any means.

 

FYI:
Why Reverse Splits in stocks are Bad.
http://www.mylocation.net/reverse_Split_information.htm

Bitcoin is at $16B marketcap, so at the same cap it would be almost 50 cents per zeitcoin

It shouldn't be an issue, if the change (fork) is well prepared and announced. In the end of the day, the coin and its priorities should be put in the first place, over the exchange's priorities. Otherwise, we will be stuck at no-change-at-all area, because some exchange may delist us.
To be fully honest, with the current volume levels, it won't make much of a difference if one or the other exchange delists us.
What is important is, whether the changes we make would help us to gain the interest of new people (and thus new exchanges, with bigger volumes).

I think it is an idea that is really worth thinking. ZEIT has extremely big numbers which, I think, tend to confuse people. Cutting two or three zeros would bring us to the teritory where normal people can imagine the numbers and the value they represent. Bitcoin is already quite complicated with 8 digits after the decimal point, and having billions in front of the comma makes it completely blurry.

Ok, I get you are on a tangent on how to decrease the coin supply by moving the decimal without a swap.

1337 has been talking about a reverse swap, maybe you can share your new insight with them.

But it is irrelevant for our coin, since we are not modifying the current supply and have no intention of ever doing so.


 

I know what you're planning to do, but I was just talking about atronite's idea, and saying that it wouldn't require a swap or even a fork, it is simply a matter of changing how things are displayed in the wallet software. It's basically akin to showing kilodoge instead of doge in your wallet - just call a kilozeit the new official zeit.

I think all you would need to do is add a few zeros here:
https://github.com/zeitcoin/zeitcoin/blob/master/src/util.h#L35
And I don't think that is a consensus parameter or anything, so you could recompile yourself and still talk to other nodes on the network.

I don't really see any point of doing that.
Since Cryptopia keeps a track of their number of coins by an internal blockchain,
odds are it would break their accounting and cause a delisting anyway, since their decimal points would no longer align with our wallets.

 

FYI:
What we are doing is inflation control by reducing the interest rate , we are not decreasing anyone's current amount of coins.
 

I wasn't referring to changing interest rate, just adjusting the total coin supply lower/shifting the decimal to the left.

We are already at the final 5% rate in the code,
meaning an additional .0005% rate will have to be added to take effect at a specific block #.
We are also changing from a 20 day minimum stake age to 1 day minimum stake age, (hard fork will be required.)  

 

FYI:
Just to be clear, this is how easy it will be ,
Rent_a_Ray will update the wallet software , Users will download and install the Updated wallet over their old one.
Restart their wallet and finished, that is it for everyone that updates before the hard fork is scheduled.

For anyone that can't update until after the hard fork,
all they will have to do is update the wallet software and then install the latest snapshot and they are good to go.
Easy.    

I'm not even sure this would even require a soft or hard fork, if all you really want to do is move the decimal place to the left. I believe all operations are done on atomic units (satoshis), not in actual coin terms, so it would just be a matter of displaying differently in the wallet software - make it 10^12 satoshi per coin rather than 10^8. Dashcoin did exactly this (not dashdarkxcoin, the cryptonote one), and while it is a different codebase, I believe principle is the same.

No , A missed swap would make someone lose all of their coins with no way to recover them.   

A Hard fork would not make anyone lose any coins from before the fork, as at any time they can download an updated snapshot and update to the latest wallet.
Their coin age (also would not be lost) will still pay out the same as if they were on the correct fork when it does finally stake.
So in essence they lose nothing. 


 


FYI:
A Swap would get us Delisted from Cryptopia.
A Hard Fork does not affect our listing status at all. 

"Cryptopia Delists any Swapped Coin. It is a Policy of their exchange."

Well that kind of puts a stake in my suggestion. I definitely agree that without exchange endorsement, a swap would never work. And I primarily trade on cryptopia.

In fact, about half of the supply there is mine (not the big one, but the other listings). We had a dump of over 100 LTC worth of zeitcoin at 120 and i've been trying to sell at profit. But this is all house/stake money that I'm playing with at this point.


"There is always people that miss the swap."

You mean the hard fork, right? Isn't reducing the interest rate to essentially nothing going to make that happen anyways?

Cryptopia Delists any Swapped Coin. It is a Policy of their exchange.


Technicals
hashProofOfStake <= [Coin-age] x [Difficulty]      
[Coin-age] = [amount of coins] x [days in stake]   
Decrease the # of coins and you decrease the hashProofOfStake. (Weakens Security)


Not everyone speaks English , and many have not been able to understand the wallet alerts ,
like this guy still on the oldest version  of Zeitcoin:0.7.2 (151.230.77.96) .
There is always people that miss the swap. Plus you have the issue of having to burn what is not swapped, it is just really not worth it.


It is not the current number of coins that is the problem, it is creating more coins faster than what can realistically be absorbed by the marketplace.
Our Target price is between .01 and $1 , the ultra low inflation rate will help us achieve and then hold that range.
It also keeps our price low enough that all foreign counties users are able to participate.
Decreasing our number of coins would decrease the number of global users that can partake in ZEIT,
we would be no different than BTC , a coin for the elite only. That is a dead end in the long run.
As their price is already too high for the micropayment industry.

ZEIT will be for the entire world and has to be affordable for all.


 

FYI:
No worries, we are the only Proof of Stake coin even discussing going Ultra Low Inflation ,
between that & the Knights , we already do stand separate from all other coins.  

This is why coordination with existing exchanges is key. In an ideal world, they would ALL take the wallets offline for a few days and hault trading, then increase all listings by a factor of 10 or 100 while decreasing the supply by the appropriate amount. But why would we lose a few exchanges? Are they hostile to such maneuvers? Which exchanges?

There is no guarantee that we won't eventually drop to 20 litoshi right NOW, which is where we USED to be, even after the transition to ultra low inflation.

I don't understand the network difficulty aspect. I thought it was based on the number of active wallets?

And you'll have to qualify what you would mean by "users miss the swap and miss their coins". If you mean that users would end up inadvertently sell their coins at a 90% loss the day the swap happens, that's what the coordination with the exchanges is supposed to prevent.

Too many Negative side effects to a swap ,

Users miss the swap and lose their coins.
There would be a direct decrease in marketcap proportional to swap if the price dropped.
No guarantee the price would not return to exactly what it is now.
We would lose a few exchanges and have to buy our way back on.
The lower the amount of coins the weaker the difficulty (which lessens network security.)

The amount of coins is good for Security & Global Acceptance , all we need to do is fix the inflation and everything else will smooth out.  


 

Hmm,

If I kick your ass,  does it make me a Soccer Player?