. - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

gyverlb

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Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jwzguy on January 18, 2013, 05:10:01 PM

Even though it's been pointed out that he didn't exchange the BTC when it was deposited. So he's just pocketing the difference now.

Repeatedly saying so doesn't make it true and this whole thing is just ridiculous.

First, the ones receiving the BTC for BTCFPA are BitPay not Tom. The fact that they may not have moved the BTC for a transaction since then doesn't prove anything.

And even if BTC were paid directly to Tom's wallet if it was possible he is very well entitled to do whatever he wants with them as long as it's part of running his business. If he needs a cushion of BTC for day-to-day operations in order to avoid moving money around for each and every BTC transaction and have more time on hand it's his call.

jwzguy

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1002

Quote from: repentance on January 18, 2013, 04:00:40 PM

I'm not sure what the exchange rate has to do with this. People who paid in BTC are being refunded in BTC and people who paid in USD are being refunded in USD.

Everything. They're being refunded less BTC than they paid, according to the price in USD at today's BTC exchange rate. Even though it's been pointed out that he didn't exchange the BTC when it was deposited. So he's just pocketing the difference now.

repentance

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dmcurser on January 18, 2013, 01:00:45 PM

Quote from: mezzomix on January 18, 2013, 07:56:53 AM

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request.
the exchange rate should be at that time not when they fell like getting to it.
as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it.
since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

I'm not sure what the exchange rate has to do with this. People who paid in BTC are being refunded in BTC and people who paid in USD are being refunded in USD.

crazy_rabbit

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Activity: 1204

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: dmcurser on January 18, 2013, 01:00:45 PM

Quote from: mezzomix on January 18, 2013, 07:56:53 AM

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request the exchange rate should be of that time not when they fell like getting to it as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

That is really hard to understand what you mean. Please try to break that up into sentences.

RoboCoder

sr. member

Activity: 388

Merit: 250

Save A Life, Adopt a Pet Today!

Quote from: repentance on January 17, 2013, 03:04:21 PM

To be honest, I think people have become a lot more rude in real life as a sort of flow on effect of not applying a filter to what they say online. People have become used to venting every little frustration online and it seems to diminish the capacity of many to deal with frustration or disappointment in real life in a non-confrontational manner.

+1 More 'ludes for everyone! (me first)

MrTeal

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Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on January 18, 2013, 12:46:25 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on January 18, 2013, 06:43:42 AM

Quote from: Bogart on January 17, 2013, 08:28:23 PM

Quote from: niko on January 17, 2013, 02:19:14 PM

Quote from: mining4fun11 on January 17, 2013, 11:04:49 AM

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud? C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud? No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

Let me get this straight. A person can start a company with intent to fraud. They collect pre-order funds while stringing the customer along. At some point, the customers start claiming fraud and the business starts to go under. The shop is closed as people bring the owner to court. The lawyer argues that the business failed due to the customers and others claiming it was a fraud. The business owner then is able to sue those who claimed fraud for damages.

If this is correct, what a beautiful business model.

This is the exact opposite of what he said.

dmcurser

hero member

Activity: 502

Merit: 500

Quote from: mezzomix on January 18, 2013, 07:56:53 AM

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request.
the exchange rate should be at that time not when they fell like getting to it.
as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it.
since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on January 18, 2013, 06:43:42 AM

Quote from: Bogart on January 17, 2013, 08:28:23 PM

Quote from: niko on January 17, 2013, 02:19:14 PM

Quote from: mining4fun11 on January 17, 2013, 11:04:49 AM

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud? C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud? No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

Let me get this straight. A person can start a company with intent to fraud. They collect pre-order funds while stringing the customer along. At some point, the customers start claiming fraud and the business starts to go under. The shop is closed as people bring the owner to court. The lawyer argues that the business failed due to the customers and others claiming it was a fraud. The business owner then is able to sue those who claimed fraud for damages.

If this is correct, what a beautiful business model.

mezzomix

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1261

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

Sitarow

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1047

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on January 18, 2013, 06:43:42 AM

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

+1

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: Bogart on January 17, 2013, 08:28:23 PM

Quote from: niko on January 17, 2013, 02:19:14 PM

Quote from: mining4fun11 on January 17, 2013, 11:04:49 AM

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud? C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud? No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

dmcurser

hero member

Activity: 502

Merit: 500

says refunds being processed yet no changes on my account. and every min the price of btc is going up so i am losing more money. i only say this since i request my refund monday im only asking to pay payed per btc at the exchange rate it was at when i reqested refund.

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: niko on January 17, 2013, 02:19:14 PM

Quote from: mining4fun11 on January 17, 2013, 11:04:49 AM

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud? C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud? No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

Unacceptable

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1001

Quote from: MeSarah on January 17, 2013, 06:00:57 PM

Quote from: MeSarah on January 17, 2013, 04:40:46 PM

Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Again I have been proven right. Creativex, run away, run away. That is something you and Tom have in common Creativex. But I guess when you use logic against someone who has no logic what else can you expect from them but to run away and find a hiding place under an ignore button. I suppose now Creativex you have proven your self the coward you claimed I was.

Greyhawk has one of the best postings ever to be quoted:

Quote from: greyhawk on January 17, 2013, 08:11:23 AM

All hail the mighty ignore list, silencer of dissention, censor of questions, ensurer of the one true path.

Yae, though I walk through the forums of BTC,
I fear no fud, for thou art with me,
thy silence and blanking, they comfort me.

MeSarah

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: MeSarah on January 17, 2013, 04:40:46 PM

Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Again I have been proven right. Creativex, run away, run away. That is something you and Tom have in common Creativex. But I guess when you use logic against someone who has no logic what else can you expect from them but to run away and find a hiding place under an ignore button. I suppose now Creativex you have proven your self the coward you claimed I was.

Greyhawk has one of the best postings ever to be quoted:

Quote from: greyhawk on January 17, 2013, 08:11:23 AM

All hail the mighty ignore list, silencer of dissention, censor of questions, ensurer of the one true path.

Yae, though I walk through the forums of BTC,
I fear no fud, for thou art with me,
thy silence and blanking, they comfort me.

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

I'm a bASIC pre-order customer replying in a thread about bASIC products.

I post my opinions about BFL in BFL threads because I think such a shady hardware vendor having such a huge market share is alarming, call that trolling if you like. I'll call myself a troll if I decide to post a video of Josh's kids, just don't hold your breath.

Nemesis

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: creativex on January 17, 2013, 02:51:28 PM

Quote from: Nemesis on January 17, 2013, 04:32:02 AM

Quote from: creativex on January 17, 2013, 12:33:01 AM

Pick on Tom all you want, I certainly don't care. If he cares he'll probably show up and put you in your place...again. I just think it's in bad taste to diss the man's wife.

Grown the fck up. Gee... Its the internet, ppl can make fun of your mom.

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

My statement isnt about anonymity. Dont misunderstand.
Internet is a place where to can find ppl's real thought, not just trolling. If you married a fugly girl, i'm sure everyone in your circles would say shes fine.

Heck if Tom doesnt refund someones money, i bet he would be afraid to stand next to them. You talk about reality but in the context to make you sound right?

I'm not Tom's customer. So i dont have any grief against him. But if he scammed me or made me lost my money, he shouldnt worry about me making fun of his fat wife. I can use authorities, or i can accept the lost and beat the crap out of him.

Unacceptable

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1001

Quote from: creativex on January 17, 2013, 04:43:29 PM

Welcome to the ignore list, troll in drag.

//ignore MeSarah

I think is a first Shocked

A troll ignoring a troll Shocked

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Welcome to the ignore list, troll in drag.

//ignore MeSarah

MeSarah

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: jamesg on January 14, 2013, 08:13:12 PM

https://plus.google.com/photos/107082417778531020969/albums

Quote from: MeSarah on January 16, 2013, 01:51:22 PM

So after a bit of searching I found this video of Tom's lovely wife..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwWp-0SfVw&list=FLqfXuai2TnWBnyqLZBQXuqQ

Quote from: creativex on January 17, 2013, 12:33:01 AM

Pick on Tom all you want, I certainly don't care. If he cares he'll probably show up and put you in your place...again. I just think it's in bad taste to diss the man's wife.

Quote from: creativex on January 17, 2013, 02:51:28 PM

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

@ Creativex, I see your point. Calling Tom's wife 'lovely' is indeed in poor taste. What term would you suggest Creativex, sow? Tom putting me in my place, ha. Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Creativex, do you know what a 'Freudian slip' is? So using your logic you are expecting your anonymity to protect you. Fuq'n hypocrite. The only person mentioned in this conversation proven to be a coward is Tom. When tough questions began to be ask of Tom he runs away and starts his own forum where he deletes tough question being asked of him. When Tom's ASIC venture blows up in his face he avoids the forums only logging on to propagandize for Avalon so the deal in the works between Tom and Avalon doesn't fall apart. When Tom can't handle a situation Tom get someone else to do his dirty work like Dave or the Avalon team. So if Tom's history is prologue, I could expect Tom would have his wife sit on me squashing me to death while he ran away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8LPA6rMjA

Creativex, if you know how I would act then you know my video posting was humor so your just creating drama for the popcorn affect.

Quote from: creativex on January 16, 2013, 01:53:37 PM

Classy move bud. Roll Eyes

Topic: . - page 4. (Read 27428 times)