[1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff] - page 149.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: HellDiverUK on September 20, 2013, 02:47:03 AM

Quote from: kano on September 20, 2013, 12:05:25 AM

I still do not understand why so many people don't see the obvious.

Many people don't care, they're cheap enough that they're fun. To me, and a lot of other folks it's just a pure giggle to run these things.

I used to spend money upgrading PCs and wasting electricity on the old distributed computing projects like RC5, OGR and SETI@Home. Those made nothing back, it was just a race on a web page.

Now I spend money of mining widgets, but at least they make a bit of money back so I can buy more mining widgets.

Its not surprising there are people like you (mining for fun, not profit), especially with these USB devices. What is surprising is that are so many that they are driving the price, even from machines that are way beyond funny prices. You'd expect for profit miners not to buy when its not profitable and hence, despite some "for fun miners", you'd expect the price to drop to somewhere around marginal profitability but thats not happening.

HellDiverUK

hero member

Activity: 1246

Merit: 501

Quote from: kano on September 20, 2013, 12:05:25 AM

I still do not understand why so many people don't see the obvious.

Many people don't care, they're cheap enough that they're fun. To me, and a lot of other folks it's just a pure giggle to run these things.

I used to spend money upgrading PCs and wasting electricity on the old distributed computing projects like RC5, OGR and SETI@Home. Those made nothing back, it was just a race on a web page.

Now I spend money of mining widgets, but at least they make a bit of money back so I can buy more mining widgets.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: Stack on September 20, 2013, 01:09:00 AM

Until at least one asic manufacturer steps up and acts responsibly - this mining roi issue is not going away anytime soon.

Dont blame the asic manufacturers. Its the miners demand that creates these prices.
But this situation was entirely predictable and predicted. Even if an asic manufacturer tomorrow starts selling asics at $1/GH, its very unlikely miners will make a profit. THe lower price will just result in higher volume, and thus higher difficulty and all those miners will be equally screwed once the asic price drops further, which it will once demand slow down. This is a race to the bottom, and for 28nm that bottom lays somewhere close to $0.1/GH and depending on electricity cost and efficiency, a resulting network hashrate >100PH. Overall miners will lose every step of the way down there.

Stack

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: kano on September 20, 2013, 12:05:25 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on September 19, 2013, 11:03:12 PM

...

C) pretty low cost for a stick

...

No - that's the flaw in your argument.
They are not low cost. They are high cost.

The cost in BTC is above the BTC it will ever return.

Not only that, but originally when the AsicMiner USBs came out the mark up on them was at least 2000% - probably more - up to as much as 5000%

They are still priced with 1 requirement:
1) That AsicMiner will receive up front more BTC than they could get mining with them
i.e. you will lose BTC buying and mining with them

I still do not understand why so many people don't see the obvious.

More so, I do not understand why so many other people say
"It's OK to lose BTC - doing something that makes BTC"

No one who has bought an AsicMiner USB from AsicMiner or it's distributors, and mined PPS or equivalent, has got back the amount of BTC they paid for it.

Low cost, meaning fiat price.. Anyone can buy one and start mining.
This is something no other product/company has achieved.
Until at least one asic manufacturer steps up and acts responsibly - this mining roi issue is not going away anytime soon.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: philipma1957 on September 19, 2013, 11:03:12 PM

...

C) pretty low cost for a stick

...

No - that's the flaw in your argument.
They are not low cost. They are high cost.

The cost in BTC is above the BTC it will ever return.

Not only that, but originally when the AsicMiner USBs came out the mark up on them was at least 2000% - probably more - up to as much as 5000%

They are still priced with 1 requirement:
1) That AsicMiner will receive up front more BTC than they could get mining with them
i.e. you will lose BTC buying and mining with them

I still do not understand why so many people don't see the obvious.

More so, I do not understand why so many other people say
"It's OK to lose BTC - doing something that makes BTC"

No one who has bought an AsicMiner USB from AsicMiner or it's distributors, and mined PPS or equivalent, has got back the amount of BTC they paid for it.

casilan

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

Quote from: philipma1957 on September 19, 2013, 11:20:47 PM

not going to do any group buys ... but this reseller has a better deal then I can do.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297304.new#new

I will just buy a few sticks for myself as the deal above is better then I can do.

Actually calculating the cost to get 10 sticks, it would almost be similar to getting Butterfly Labs 25Gh.

Now this becomes a problem. A point to ponder to see which is more worth.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

not going to do any group buys ... but this reseller has a better deal then I can do.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297304.new#new

I will just buy a few sticks for myself as the deal above is better then I can do.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: dbkeys on September 19, 2013, 07:17:33 PM

To the guys worried about ROI on their hardware:
Alot of the doom and gloom is strictly predicated on the current BTC/USD exchange rate.
Bitcoin has come a looong way from $0.05 usd / btc to ~$125 usd / btc, so hang on to those bitcoins, an re-examine your mining investment in a year or too. I believe you will be satisfied !
That said, it is probably true that it is more lucrative just now to buy btc and hold than to mine.
I'm mining because I wanted to learn about BTC from "the trenches" so to speak, and don't regret it one bit.
Love the BitMinter !

we need guys like you. this is why i try to sell the am sticks at a low markup on ebay with no preorders and now hopefully the newer 2.4gh sticks next month. The only way btc will make out in the longer run is to have many small miners. yeah every talks about big investors and they have lots of power in anything they toss money at. But if you have 5 million to invest in BTC maybe hoping to hold it a year and sell it for 6/7 million does it look like a better "stock" if it has lots of customers and room to grow.
Think McDonalds in 1970 a big investor sees room for growth and a large customer base. Plus a new customer can start on the cheap (ie a burger and fries).

same concept a new miner can get started with a few sticks.
so
A) a no preorder stick is important
B) play n play is important
C) pretty low cost for a stick

McDonalds in 1970
A) fast food a drive up window
B) you can start to eat it quickly
C) low price

Just 1 analogy as to why a big investor may see putting money into btc as a good move.

DigitalHermit

full member

Activity: 150

Merit: 100

Thank you! Thank you! ...

So today something a little odd happened. I tried to go to bitminter.com in my browser (firefox) as usual and it wouldn't load at all. No server timeout errors or anything; just nothing like the site vanished. So I did a little DNS investigation and:

Quote

C:\>nslookup bitminter.com
Server: *****************
Address: *****************

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: bitminter.com
Addresses: 2400:cb00:2048:1::6ca2:ca7b
   2400:cb00:2048:1::6ca2:c97b
   108.162.201.123
   108.162.202.123

Seems like it resolves to IPv6 addresses prioritized before IPv4 addresses but I know my router doesn't handle IPv6. So I thought this might be why I can't get to the site. The next thing I tried was to add the following entry to my hosts file ( C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts ) to force it back to using the IPv4 address (since hosts file takes priority over DNS):

108.162.201.123 bitminter.com

... and after that the site worked fine again! Strange though.

norpick

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

Quote from: cspindor on September 19, 2013, 07:27:32 PM

Quote from: dbkeys on September 19, 2013, 07:17:33 PM

To the guys worried about ROI on their hardware:
Alot of the doom and gloom is strictly predicated on the current BTC/USD exchange rate.
Bitcoin has come a looong way from $0.05 usd / btc to ~$125 usd / btc, so hang on to those bitcoins, an re-examine your mining investment in a year or too. I believe you will be satisfied !
That said, it is probably true that it is more lucrative just now to buy btc and hold than to mine.
I'm mining because I wanted to learn about BTC from "the trenches" so to speak, and don't regret it one bit.
Love the BitMinter !

Im with you on the "trenches" And the future.

Cant agree more!

cspindor

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

Quote from: dbkeys on September 19, 2013, 07:17:33 PM

To the guys worried about ROI on their hardware:
Alot of the doom and gloom is strictly predicated on the current BTC/USD exchange rate.
Bitcoin has come a looong way from $0.05 usd / btc to ~$125 usd / btc, so hang on to those bitcoins, an re-examine your mining investment in a year or too. I believe you will be satisfied !
That said, it is probably true that it is more lucrative just now to buy btc and hold than to mine.
I'm mining because I wanted to learn about BTC from "the trenches" so to speak, and don't regret it one bit.
Love the BitMinter !

Im with you on the "trenches" And the future.

dbkeys

full member

Activity: 486

Merit: 104

To the guys worried about ROI on their hardware:
Alot of the doom and gloom is strictly predicated on the current BTC/USD exchange rate.
Bitcoin has come a looong way from $0.05 usd / btc to ~$125 usd / btc, so hang on to those bitcoins, an re-examine your mining investment in a year or too. I believe you will be satisfied !
That said, it is probably true that it is more lucrative just now to buy btc and hold than to mine.
I'm mining because I wanted to learn about BTC from "the trenches" so to speak, and don't regret it one bit.
Love the BitMinter !

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: casilan on September 19, 2013, 02:36:59 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on September 18, 2013, 04:33:24 PM

I just purchased 5 btc from coinbase. I will get more coins on Thur. I am inclined to get 20 sticks from this seller

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-09-or-less-bpmc-blue-fury-27-ghs-usb-miner-ssinc-gb9-296301

my cost would be 17 btc with free shipping. I would get them about OCT 1-7.

If I pay .85 btc a coin and sell sets of 2 at 1.78 btc.

I make .08 btc I can ship to the usa for .05 btc so my profit on a pair would be .03btc

for the buyer he gets a pair of in hand sticks that ran a day before I ship them. it is a little better then buying directly from the link above.

All this is very tentative, but in the ball park. it is geared for the little guy.

will you make money with 4.4gh at 1.78btc maybe maybe not.. of course if you are buying a lot of sticks buying direct from ssinc is better then buying from me.

I really believe that preorders should not be suffered on the btc community. So if i do this they will be in hand and work on bitminter

If you are selling it to members in the bitminter pool, are you gonna ship it to Singapore or New Zealand if I do order a few of those 2Gh sticks from you?

Still in the planning stage. I am getting the coins together. I should have 17 coins by monday allowing me to buy 20 at .85 btc each. If I buy the more expensive ones I should have them in hand faster. Shipping to Singapore or New Zealand would be possible But I need to see fees from us post office. I will post more info in a few days. As of today I have about 7 coins on hand.

DrHaribo

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 1034

Needs more jiggawatts

I'm looking into all the stale namecoin blocks today.

So far I couldn't find anything wrong.

Namecoin stale work ratio is going up as some users turn on the new setting to disable flushing of stale namecoin work. I also see namecoin blocks are being created at a very quick rate right now. But I don't think that explains this many stales.

It may be that something was causing our blocks to be rejected / not propagated. Could be an old bitcoin bug, namecoin still has a bunch of those.

Anyway, just to let you know I am looking into it.

casilan

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

Quote from: philipma1957 on September 18, 2013, 04:33:24 PM

I just purchased 5 btc from coinbase. I will get more coins on Thur. I am inclined to get 20 sticks from this seller

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-09-or-less-bpmc-blue-fury-27-ghs-usb-miner-ssinc-gb9-296301

my cost would be 17 btc with free shipping. I would get them about OCT 1-7.

If I pay .85 btc a coin and sell sets of 2 at 1.78 btc.

I make .08 btc I can ship to the usa for .05 btc so my profit on a pair would be .03btc

for the buyer he gets a pair of in hand sticks that ran a day before I ship them. it is a little better then buying directly from the link above.

All this is very tentative, but in the ball park. it is geared for the little guy.

will you make money with 4.4gh at 1.78btc maybe maybe not.. of course if you are buying a lot of sticks buying direct from ssinc is better then buying from me.

I really believe that preorders should not be suffered on the btc community. So if i do this they will be in hand and work on bitminter

If you are selling it to members in the bitminter pool, are you gonna ship it to Singapore or New Zealand if I do order a few of those 2Gh sticks from you?

wpgdeez

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Probably finding a nice new cool location with cheap power :p

SgtMoth

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1004

buy silver!

btw...fefoxbfl will be back online in 10hrs, he hasnt left the pool

DigitalHermit

full member

Activity: 150

Merit: 100

Thank you! Thank you! ...

Quote from: Jayjay04 on September 19, 2013, 11:15:27 AM

12/20 Stale !

Yes, highly improbable. Seems like a legitimate problem with the pool software of some kind.

For example, what if the software responsible for broadcasting each NMC block is down, delayed, out of memory, timing out... basically preventing NMC blocks from being sent to the network in a timely manner. That would cause a problem like this.

aneutronic

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Any server issues this morning? I had a failed worker alert ~ 45 min ago but things seem ok on my end.
My chart shows a dropout from the pool api and the data from the miner api looks good so I believe that should rule out my local lan at least.
I won't vouch for my ISP though. Undecided

Also cgminer status didn't show any failover to the second pool but my last shift was a GH/s or 2 below my typical variance.

Jayjay04

legendary

Activity: 1364

Merit: 1000

12/20 Stale !

Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff] - page 149. (Read 837101 times)