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Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 148. (Read 2591920 times)

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
FUN > ROI
I may try to compile the version that only includes the block increase and not Mike's other changes, will see how that goes when I get started on it.

That won't work after a successful fork; XT will ignore the chain consensus rules (longest chain with highest POW wins). This means that if you dislike XT's future direction, a hard fork is no longer possible, the development team are in charge of which chain prevails, not miners.

That's not quite correct.  The developers could add code that gives them 10% of each block reward and you'll find that most users, miners, services, etc. will go tell them to fork off, refuse to run any client with that code, and those devs will merely have wasted their time.  Checkpointing (which I think you're alluding to, as Mike has mentioned in an interview once that this could be an option in case the chain goes back and forth) doesn't help either if people don't run the code that adds (or polls for) these checkpoints.  Forks are also always a possibility - this doesn't depend on developers in any way, only on what the network deems as being valid, which in turn depends on the code the nodes run.  Whether that fork would find success depends entirely on the merits of the fork.

Those 'other changes' currently in XT also don't rely on the fork or the BIP101 code at all.  Nodes could already be running with those changes in place and in effect (XT nodes do), and you'd never know unless you did an analysis of the node's behavior.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Quote
You should be patient then, instead of performing any of your other suggestions. Because backing a bad faith, badly conceived idea is exactly what you jedimstr specifically did the last time something controversial happened on this p2pool sub-board, isn't that right?


Carlton: care to remind me? Don't know which of my posts or questions have pissed you off so much. I mean, seriously I don't.

EDIT:
Ok, I've been digging into my post history and can't for the life of me find where the supposed controversial posts that got you so pissed off in this thread for P2Pool.
This is the closest I can find: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7224251 and it's not all that controversial at all.

Seriously, I want to know how I pissed you off so bad and if I was wrong apologize.  But I really don't want bad blood here either way.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
Well, long before the potential January fork we'll know which way the wind is blowing and hopefully will have more viable BIP proposals out there.  In the meantime switching between BitcoinXT and Bitcoin Core clients is seamless and utilizes the same db/configs and can be done in just a few minutes.  So technically it won't hurt anything for now to essentially "cast a vote" with my node for larger blocks (even if it's still contested which implementation is best, none have been "perfect" yet).  I can always change my node to whatever client implementation is best down the line.  

This is true, p2pool nodes won't affect the outcome of the fork unless there is unprecedented growth in the pool's overall hashrate. And it is seamless.


There's a huge difference between patience and complacency in the face of change.  Burying your head in the sand either way won't help anyone.

You should be patient then, instead of performing any of your other suggestions. Because backing a bad faith, badly conceived idea is exactly what you jedimstr specifically did the last time something controversial happened on this p2pool sub-board, isn't that right?
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Well, long before the potential January fork we'll know which way the wind is blowing and hopefully will have more viable BIP proposals out there.  In the meantime switching between BitcoinXT and Bitcoin Core clients is seamless and utilizes the same db/configs and can be done in just a few minutes.  So technically it won't hurt anything for now to essentially "cast a vote" with my node for larger blocks (even if it's still contested which implementation is best, none have been "perfect" yet).  I can always change my node to whatever client implementation is best down the line.  

There's a huge difference between patience and complacency in the face of change.  Burying your head in the sand either way won't help anyone.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
I may try to compile the version that only includes the block increase and not Mike's other changes, will see how that goes when I get started on it.

That won't work after a successful fork; XT will ignore the chain consensus rules (longest chain with highest POW wins). This means that if you dislike XT's future direction, a hard fork is no longer possible, the development team are in charge of which chain prevails, not miners.
legendary
Activity: 1258
Merit: 1027
Windpath: Have you gotten CoinCadence running BitcoinXT yet?  Looks like the big pools are pushing BIP100 (even without anything really coded for this BIP yet) and BIP101 is plateu'ing where it is.

I've been running my p2pool node on BitcoinXT and would hate to see the momentum drop off.

Not yet, however running it locally on my test node. Should be releasing Chain Query next week and then will have time to work on it.

Carltons' comments are not really relevant for me.

My goal in adding XT is to have a method for those that want to vote for bigger blocks to do so with P2Pool as changing our coinbase is not really practical.

In the end I'll support whichever BIP (or XT) that has the most support and increases the block size, but as no other BIPs have working code at this point XT is my only option.

I may try to compile the version that only includes the block increase and not Mike's other changes, will see how that goes when I get started on it.

It's just a way of expressing support for larger blocks with our hash power, ultimately I'll go where the majority does.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
Windpath: Have you gotten CoinCadence running BitcoinXT yet?  Looks like the big pools are pushing BIP100 (even without anything really coded for this BIP yet) and BIP101 is plateu'ing where it is.

I've been running my p2pool node on BitcoinXT and would hate to see the momentum drop off.

Inadvisable. XT's faster-than-trend increase in the blocksize will gradually begin to kill the economic incentive for p2pool miners with each block reward halving. Pushing the limit higher than prevailing typical bandwidth stops a proper fee market from developing; close to full blocks is optimal to engender the inertial dynamics that promote a fee market.

Maybe you would like to promote the death of p2pool, jedimstr, just don't drag everyone else into it. There will be technically superior solutions to BIP 101 available, be patient.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Windpath: Have you gotten CoinCadence running BitcoinXT yet?  Looks like the big pools are pushing BIP100 (even without anything really coded for this BIP yet) and BIP101 is plateu'ing where it is.

I've been running my p2pool node on BitcoinXT and would hate to see the momentum drop off.
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 132
Today is a good day to p2pool.

 Cool
full member
Activity: 521
Merit: 100
AFAIK merge mine works ONLY on same algo, so if you have working "8-round blake 256" P2Pool it should be able to MM another coins on it.
Thanks for the tip. We do have merge right now with Blakecoin and 5 other coins.
legendary
Activity: 1361
Merit: 1003
Don`t panic! Organize!
AFAIK merge mine works ONLY on same algo, so if you have working "8-round blake 256" P2Pool it should be able to MM another coins on it.
full member
Activity: 521
Merit: 100
Would anybody be willing to help port p2pool to merge mine 8-round blake 256?

We have a $200 USD+ bounty. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306894.3240

Thanks.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Agree with the SSD & UPS statements - essential for me anyways.

Nice to see a few blocks rolling in again at last  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
I see SSDs for $10k and read that they're little space heaters with a short life span. The cost needs to come down, way way way down and the current technology is clearly inferior to HDDs.

I think a UPS could have prevented this.
$10k?  Where are you looking...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360&cm_re=256g_ssd-_-20-147-360-_-Product

An SSD will hands down beat out any mechanical hard drive from the performance angle.  Durability might be an issue long-term as they do have a limited amount of writes capable, but they're cheap enough.

And yeah, a UPS is key, I have all my electronics on them at home - computers, TV's, stereo, etc.  It does more than just battery, it normalizes your power and keeps surges and dips from harming them.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
@nobatman ..... get a SSD

It can corrupt, too ... if you use a too big cache mempool ( dbcache=50 for me, it's OK and safe from corruption ).

I have a 840 EVO 512 Go SSD (not work very good behing 40°C, need fan !).

I see SSDs for $10k and read that they're little space heaters with a short life span. The cost needs to come down, way way way down and the current technology is clearly inferior to HDDs.

I think a UPS could have prevented this.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
@nobatman ..... get a SSD

It can corrupt, too ... if you use a too big cache mempool ( dbcache=50 for me, it's OK and safe from corruption ).

I have a 840 EVO 512 Go SSD (not work very good behing 40°C, need fan !).
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1002
Mine Mine Mine
to the newbie few post back...

if you are on your own node mining with your own btc add. i don;t see any reason why to set a 100% fee n charge yourself with a fee ?

setup your own node & mine on your own node will be best

if you have half of p2p hashing power, i'd say almost a yes you would get half the rewards but it could be less depending on how efficient your node is ... sometimes you hit more shares & sometimes you hit less shares & depends when a block comes along the way. also reliability of your pc or server that hosts your node, there could be some downtime.

ah i almost forgot, if you found the block you'll get a little extra coins. 0.5% more.

then prolly a little more too from merged mining.

agreed with windpath, do some reading. there's lots of info out there & also ask questions here.

try to setup your own node & point a small amt of hashpower to it & see how it goes.

not difficult to do, just some reading, trial & errors.


@nobatman ..... get a SSD
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
P2pool is awesome! My 9W LED lamp got a case of the gremlins and caused a massive power surge crashing my computer and corrupting my blockchain file. Fortunately I just connected to the closest adjacent node and kept on mining without missing a beat. Only 40 weeks to go after 10 hours of re-indexing... LOL.



A 9W LED did this! If the plastic wasn't translucent I'd be clueless... They beamed a 1000W of microwaves into my light bulb with HAARP or something WTF is going on here? I'm not switching to the XT scam fork no matter how many watts gets beamed into my light bulb! Wait I don't even have a light anymore, I need a new fucking plug/lamp. Surprisingly the bulb/lamp still works but I'm not plugging it in.
sr. member
Activity: 357
Merit: 250
In short nothing. The fees are set on a per node basis, a node running with 100% fees will submit all shares for that specific node for the benefit of that nodes operator. That being said, unless you wanted to donate to a specific node, you would never mine on someone elses 100% fee node.

Put another way, and why it is not an issue, the fee is specific to the node and it's own shares, not shares found by other nodes.

For example, if I wanted to run a node just for myself and not encourage other miners to mine on it setting a 100% fee is a good way to ensure that. However by setting the fee at 100% I do not affect any other nodes.

The "Read This First" post here is a good place to start: http://p2pool.org/

Edit: in re-reading your posts I think you may be confusing the node fee and the transaction fees of a bitcoin block, they are completely separate. A node fee is imposed on all miners on a given node, bitcoin transaction fees are based on what transactions that node is including in a given block and unrelated to the node fee.


I understand now.

The node fees will be deducted from the miner connected to that node and every miners on other node will have their share safe.

Let us say that there is a node that have 100% fees and that node is big enough and submit 50% of share on p2pool when p2pool hit a block.

Then that node will have all the 12.5 coins + 1/2 transactions fees of that block and give nothing to miners. But the rest of 12.5 coins + 1/2 transaction fees will be shared between all miners on the rest of the node.

legendary
Activity: 1258
Merit: 1027
As I tried to have clarified in this seperate topic:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blockswarm-protocol-proposition-solo-mining-full-node-cooperative-1077798

I thought that all nodes are working on their own version of the next block, with a common coinbase transaction (based on the share chain). Thus, participating in p2pool is more akin to a mining cooperative than a conventional pool, such that in p2pool a bunch of independent full nodes (ledger + hashing power) are working together but independently on unique nodes, whereas in a conventional pool, everyone is working to hash on one node (so miners are really just submitting hash, not creating their own blocks).

So, they're not *really* working on the same block in the sense that my p2pool node could include a different bunch of transactions than yours (depending on my fee levels etc), but they *are* working on the same block in the sense that our coinbase transaction is common and, more or less, the block is pulling from the same mempool, so the transactions will be similar.

From what i understand that is the node that submit the right share will take the fees .

If that is the situation what will stop the node owner from running his node with 100% fees and keep all coin?

In short nothing. The fees are set on a per node basis, a node running with 100% fees will submit all shares for that specific node for the benefit of that nodes operator. That being said, unless you wanted to donate to a specific node, you would never mine on someone elses 100% fee node.

Put another way, and why it is not an issue, the fee is specific to the node and it's own shares, not shares found by other nodes.

For example, if I wanted to run a node just for myself and not encourage other miners to mine on it setting a 100% fee is a good way to ensure that. However by setting the fee at 100% I do not affect any other nodes.

The "Read This First" post here is a good place to start: http://p2pool.org/

Edit: in re-reading your posts I think you may be confusing the node fee and the transaction fees of a bitcoin block, they are completely separate. A node fee is imposed on all miners on a given node, bitcoin transaction fees are based on what transactions that node is including in a given block and unrelated to the node fee.
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