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Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) - page 79. (Read 146936 times)

rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
Thats the sort of question that can really get me in trouble.  Smiley  If all goes on schedule with this final step, we'll be making deliveries at the end of this month.

BFL

hellyeah
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
When do you expect the full product to be launched?

Thats the sort of question that can really get me in trouble.  Smiley  If all goes on schedule with this final step, we'll be making deliveries at the end of this month.

BFL

Apologies, but really anticipating the launch
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
When do you expect the full product to be launched?

Thats the sort of question that can really get me in trouble.  Smiley  If all goes on schedule with this final step, we'll be making deliveries at the end of this month.

BFL
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
Thank you BFL for coming to post and answer our queries in this thread. Hopefully the flame wars and betting will stay out of this one.

My one question is this : How come all the three variables have changed for the worse since your "announcement" ? The power has increased, the price has increased and the performance has decreased ? This does seem like false advertising to me and does not inspire confidence. What if a salesman told you a car can go 200 km/h but the car only does 160 in real life. You would not be pleased.

The pre-order people expect the figures you have been posting at the beginning, namely $500, 20W and 1 Gh/s. If you fail to give them that then you are not to be trusted IMHO.

Good luck and hope you deliver those claims.

Thanks for coming here to cooperate with your customers !

1.  The price didn't change for the people who took advantage of the pre-order offer.  
2.  We're currently running stable in the speed range specified.
3.  The power will likely be higher by an as yet determined margin.

In sum, only one of the three is changing and as stated in our pre-order terms, performance is guaranteed to meet the specifications listed or the order can be canceled for a full refund.


When do you expect the full product to be launched?
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
Will there be another test with Inaba before you ship out the units ?

We will conduct additional public demos with Inaba as we are able.  Video will also be published.
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
Thank you BFL for coming to post and answer our queries in this thread. Hopefully the flame wars and betting will stay out of this one.

My one question is this : How come all the three variables have changed for the worse since your "announcement" ? The power has increased, the price has increased and the performance has decreased ? This does seem like false advertising to me and does not inspire confidence. What if a salesman told you a car can go 200 km/h but the car only does 160 in real life. You would not be pleased.

The pre-order people expect the figures you have been posting at the beginning, namely $500, 20W and 1 Gh/s. If you fail to give them that then you are not to be trusted IMHO.

Good luck and hope you deliver those claims.

Thanks for coming here to cooperate with your customers !

1.  The price didn't change for the people who took advantage of the pre-order offer.  
2.  We're currently running stable in the speed range specified.
3.  The power will likely be higher by an as yet determined margin.

In sum, only one of the three is changing and as stated in our pre-order terms, performance is guaranteed to meet the specifications listed or the order can be canceled for a full refund.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
I hope that there will be another test soon, at least we know what to look out for.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
Will there be another test with Inaba before you ship out the units ?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Thank you BFL for coming to post and answer our queries in this thread. Hopefully the flame wars and betting will stay out of this one.

My one question is this : How come all the three variables have changed for the worse since your "announcement" ? The power has increased, the price has increased and the performance has decreased ? This does seem like false advertising to me and does not inspire confidence. What if a salesman told you a car can go 200 km/h but the car only does 160 in real life. You would not be pleased.

The pre-order people expect the figures you have been posting at the beginning, namely $500, 20W and 1 Gh/s. If you fail to give them that then you are not to be trusted IMHO.

Good luck and hope you deliver those claims.

Thanks for coming here to cooperate with your customers !
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
I'm confused, I really thought you did say that the rig box consisted of 32 Bitforce singles, but I see no mention of that on your website now.

And there never was.  It was merely crowd speculation in the last thread borne out of all the mindless scam chanting.  Somebody would make a reasonable (but innacurate) point of speculation, then someone else would take it as fact along with other "facts" and stretch it to a backwards conclusion.  Crowd wisdom would then just nod in self agreement.

Really, it was marvelous to watch...  and frankly, I expect it to start up again until we ship in volume because there's no practical consequence for being wrong.  

Quote
I guess you're saying that the same PCBs are used, but loaded with different chips. If that's the case, will you sell "rig box singles?" Will you sell a rig box with regular Bitforce singles?

Also, what other markets are you selling to? What other applications are there for this hardware?

The Rig box uses a core comprised of chips different than those used in our Single.  Single cards (and chips) are stacked on top of the core to achieve sum total performance.  A later version of the Single may use different chips, but that has yet to be determined.

To get an idea of target markets, consider the fields of medical imaging, medical research, security applications, financial  (monte carlo calculation clusters), Institutional Boinc, etc.  However, regarding SHA specific market applications, I'll leave that to the imagination.
vip
Activity: 166
Merit: 100
we didn't start this thread or announce ourselves at all...We were discovered in mid development by a few in the bitcoin community...we put up a pre-order page to keep it orderly...gmax heard about our project and posted...we hadn't expected to enter the market at the time our project was discovered.

You launched a website showcasing your product and you're surprised that it got found out? Before gmax, how did the "few in the bitcoin community" find out about your product? Did you expect them to be quite about it?
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 525
Quote
Also, If I might ask BFL a second question, how can 32 x 1.05 = 50+ ?    What is the average guy missing?

We've never said or implied that 32 Singles constitute a 50gh/s Rig Box.  The street brawl logic of the previous thread came to that conclusion on it's own and left little opportunity for correction.

The Rig Box product uses different chips than the Single.  That's the simplest explanation.  The 32 expansion points allow different generation cards to be used along with the core interchangeably.

Regards,
BFL

I'm confused, I really thought you did say that the rig box consisted of 32 Bitforce singles, but I see no mention of that on your website now.

Found one quote:
BitForce Single PCB's are used in the Rig Box platform.  However, the Rig Box also employs parts unique to itself.  Why would we go to the trouble for such a small market?  We didn't.  Our product design is influenced by other factors beyond hash mining.

I guess you're saying that the same PCBs are used, but loaded with different chips. If that's the case, will you sell "rig box singles?" Will you sell a rig box with regular Bitforce singles?

Also, what other markets are you selling to? What other applications are there for this hardware?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
  In all fairness the title should be changed to $700 (was $600). As that was the initial price for units, not accounting for the 'discounted' preorders.....
full member
Activity: 184
Merit: 100
Can you elaborate on what you mean by making a final decision once the website is updated?  What does that have to do with the betting decision?  I'm not being coy, I am honestly unclear on how they are related at this point?

Before irreversibly moving couple hundred btc between accounts, I would like to wait for something more official. It seems that BF labs will update their specs when they are sure. Even if that doesn't happen I'll distribute the coins when the "event date" (Jan 3rd) comes.
uck
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
BFL, in  your demos planned for the future, please be sure to make some youtube videos showing the device running. This will help immensely.

Thanks
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Can you elaborate on what you mean by making a final decision once the website is updated?  What does that have to do with the betting decision?  I'm not being coy, I am honestly unclear on how they are related at this point?
full member
Activity: 184
Merit: 100
Goat, it's all but certain that we'll be above 19.8w in our final power specification.
Since BF Labs officially changed their claims, I'm closing the bets. Thanks everyone who participated.
We will make the final decision of winning side once their website is updated with new claims or at Jan. 3rd whichever happens first.

PS: I can get into my view of intrade type of markets, but I don't want to do it here. Cheers!
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
Can the betting discussion be moved to another thread?

+1
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
felonious vagrancy, personified
Quote
but it was slightly unstable, often returning extra nonces that are invalid

This is pretty bad news.

Keep in mind that (unless something truly weird is going on) that on average every invalid nonce returned by flaky hardware means that one valid nonce was missed.  The valid nonces are essentially randomly distributed (SHA-256 wouldn't make a good hash function if this weren't true) so the probability of a bit error causing an invalid nonce to look valid is equal to the probability of a bit error causing a valid nonce to look invalid.

So three bad nonces per good nonce means you are only going to see 25% of the expected hashrate.
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
I wish you good luck with you development Smiley

Thanks, I sincerely appreciate your encouragement.

BFL
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