Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) - page 80. (Read 146909 times)
December 02, 2011, 03:08:57 PM
Curiously monitoring and posting in this thread.
December 02, 2011, 03:04:41 PM
Quote
God bets of bitcoin sucks. ... if you are listening b.o.b. please consider moving to an intrade type format.
+1
We really need a bitcoin intrade. B.O.B. is not a substitute.
December 02, 2011, 02:54:37 PM
It seems im becoming a collector 
As my own solution is unlikely to come to a frutation i will watch the competitors.
So far ive got one copy of ethery FPGA or simmliar mining solution that has made it to the market.
I'll be sure to get at least one of you small ones.Altough i would love to get one of the rig boxes, but my student wallet will not allow that.
But if you seek testers.....
I wish you good luck with you development
As my own solution is unlikely to come to a frutation i will watch the competitors.
So far ive got one copy of ethery FPGA or simmliar mining solution that has made it to the market.
I'll be sure to get at least one of you small ones.Altough i would love to get one of the rig boxes, but my student wallet will not allow that.
But if you seek testers.....
I wish you good luck with you development
December 02, 2011, 12:21:52 PM
BFL: I am assuming there isn't much processing needed on the host, which means that the only limitation is the 127-device USB cap? Do you have a "recommended specs" for the host computer? This seems perfect for my pico-itx test build.
Host computer requirements are nill. If you can power a modern browser and you have a healthy USB port, you'll have more than enough performance capacity to host a chain of BitForce Singles.
BFL
PS. Someone had speculated at some point that the Single itself could run an OS. Yes, it can. However, in this version we allow the host miner to validate the nonce before network submital. This is not resource intensive but it does require a host.
December 02, 2011, 12:11:33 PM
The static draw is under 19.8w
It would be, yes. Running a fast Bitcoin mining bitstream tends to result in quite a lot of dynamic power consumption though - apparently it has a higher toggle rate than normal applications of FPGAs or something. (This was documented in the various threads about it a while back.) I actually ended up having to upgrade the power supply on my toy 25 MHash miner to get it to run at its full potential without falling over!We then have two different technologies that are used in our product. One is primarily for the Single and the other is for the Rig Box. Both can be interchangeable, but the more efficient system was specked out for the single where the 19.8 figure was established. In the end we're going with the less efficient in initial production for the Single.
It may have been a good idea to avoid advertising the higher efficiency until you knew you'd actually achieve it.Agreed. However, I'd like to take the opportunity to point out that we didn't start this thread or announce ourselves at all.
We were discovered in mid development by a few in the bitcoin community... that interaction altered our development course significantly.
In order to accommodate their friendly requests of early delivery units, we put up a pre-order page to keep it orderly. That worked well, then at some point... someone (gmax) heard about our project and posted... the rest is history. In sum, we weren't polished for commercialization because we hadn't expected to enter the market at the time our project was discovered.
December 02, 2011, 11:56:05 AM
BFL: I am assuming there isn't much processing needed on the host, which means that the only limitation is the 127-device USB cap? Do you have a "recommended specs" for the host computer? This seems perfect for my pico-itx test build.
December 02, 2011, 11:50:10 AM
The static draw is under 19.8w
It would be, yes. Running a fast Bitcoin mining bitstream tends to result in quite a lot of dynamic power consumption though - apparently it has a higher toggle rate than normal applications of FPGAs or something. (This was documented in the various threads about it a while back.) I actually ended up having to upgrade the power supply on my toy 25 MHash miner to get it to run at its full potential without falling over!We then have two different technologies that are used in our product. One is primarily for the Single and the other is for the Rig Box. Both can be interchangeable, but the more efficient system was specked out for the single where the 19.8 figure was established. In the end we're going with the less efficient in initial production for the Single.
It may have been a good idea to avoid advertising the higher efficiency until you knew you'd actually achieve it. 
December 02, 2011, 11:49:54 AM
Can the betting discussion be moved to another thread?
December 02, 2011, 11:04:46 AM
Actually, I went back to reread the bet.
here is how Inaba phrased it:
Assuming there will be a 50W 1050MH device +-20% within the above timeframe, Ill leave it to inaba to judge. I honestly dont know if the above 50W was a typo or not, but no one corrected him.
here is how Inaba phrased it:
Just keep in mind, it is now 2 months and 7 days for a product to be delivered to Inaba. He then has 1 month to test it. And then if it works, BFLabs has two months after that to sell it at the price stated. 20% or whatever error is fine. Shit happens and my claim is its a fucking scam, so if this is just a bit off, then you win.
Assuming there will be a 50W 1050MH device +-20% within the above timeframe, Ill leave it to inaba to judge. I honestly dont know if the above 50W was a typo or not, but no one corrected him.
50w came from this post/bet:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.612144
December 02, 2011, 10:47:39 AM
Actually, I went back to reread the bet.
here is how Inaba phrased it:
Assuming there will be a 50W 1050MH device +-20% within the above timeframe, Ill leave it to inaba to judge. I honestly dont know if the above 50W was a typo or not, but no one corrected him.
here is how Inaba phrased it:
Just keep in mind, it is now 2 months and 7 days for a product to be delivered to Inaba. He then has 1 month to test it. And then if it works, BFLabs has two months after that to sell it at the price stated. 20% or whatever error is fine. Shit happens and my claim is its a fucking scam, so if this is just a bit off, then you win.
Assuming there will be a 50W 1050MH device +-20% within the above timeframe, Ill leave it to inaba to judge. I honestly dont know if the above 50W was a typo or not, but no one corrected him.
December 02, 2011, 10:46:32 AM
Quote
Also, If I might ask BFL a second question, how can 32 x 1.05 = 50+ ? What is the average guy missing?
We've never said or implied that 32 Singles constitute a 50gh/s Rig Box. The street brawl logic of the previous thread came to that conclusion on it's own and left little opportunity for correction.
The Rig Box product uses different chips than the Single. That's the simplest explanation. The 32 expansion points allow different generation cards to be used along with the core interchangeably.
Regards,
BFL
December 02, 2011, 10:30:53 AM
Looks like you get to keep the coins goat. Congrats I suppose, although all along my point was that BFL were not fake as you wanted to bet $10,000 on, so I do feel I was closer to the truth than you
They're looking more and more legitimate, but I don't think anything has been established yet one way or the other. December 02, 2011, 10:19:14 AM
Looks like you get to keep the coins goat. Congrats I suppose, although all along my point was that BFL were not fake as you wanted to bet $10,000 on, so I do feel I was closer to the truth than you
December 02, 2011, 10:13:17 AM
Well, there's a couple reasons for that. The static draw is under 19.8w We then have two different technologies that are used in our product. One is primarily for the Single and the other is for the Rig Box. Both can be interchangeable, but the more efficient system was specked out for the single where the 19.8 figure was established. In the end we're going with the less efficient in initial production for the SIngle.
Having said that, the final power draw on both systems is greater than were predetermined and we would have been over in either case. We aren't over clocking our chips, but when the draw is greater than design allows, the consumption increases significantly and distorts the true power / mh relationship. The remedy is straight forward, but the final resulting figures have yet to be established as we're not yet done with the process.
Having said that, the final power draw on both systems is greater than were predetermined and we would have been over in either case. We aren't over clocking our chips, but when the draw is greater than design allows, the consumption increases significantly and distorts the true power / mh relationship. The remedy is straight forward, but the final resulting figures have yet to be established as we're not yet done with the process.
December 02, 2011, 10:01:15 AM
Goat, it's all but certain that we'll be above 19.8w in our final power specification. Once we have that final figure, we'll adjust our website and notify our unit position holders of the resulting figure to give them the option to accept the change in spec or receive a refund.
What will the final power figure be? Without going into great detail as to the reasoning, it's looking like it will end between 30w to 60w at 1.05 gh/s performance.
What will the final power figure be? Without going into great detail as to the reasoning, it's looking like it will end between 30w to 60w at 1.05 gh/s performance.
Thank you for your quick and honest answer! I hope we are falling into a new pattern of openness and understanding. Would it be too much to ask for your operation to no longer guarantee 19.8 on your website?
Thanks and hope things work out. Looking forward to your final product.
Goat, we've always been willing to participate in an open and reasonable discussion. This new thread seems to be intended to provide that. To the extent that it does, we'll be here to answer your questions.
Regards,
BFL
December 02, 2011, 09:54:40 AM
What will the final power figure be? Without going into great detail as to the reasoning, it's looking like it will end between 30w to 60w at 1.05 gh/s performance.
So anywhere between 50% and 200% higher than you previously expected? Ouch. I'm actually curious now how the power consumption ended up shooting up so much compared to your original figures and where those figures came from in the first place. December 02, 2011, 09:51:03 AM
Goat, it's all but certain that we'll be above 19.8w in our final power specification. Once we have that final figure, we'll adjust our website and notify our unit position holders of the resulting figure to give them the option to accept the change in spec or receive a refund.
What will the final power figure be? Without going into great detail as to the reasoning, it's looking like it will end between 30w to 60w at 1.05 gh/s performance.
What will the final power figure be? Without going into great detail as to the reasoning, it's looking like it will end between 30w to 60w at 1.05 gh/s performance.
December 02, 2011, 09:39:51 AM
December 02, 2011, 04:40:39 AM
So when are these devices (tentatively) scheduled to be sent out to everyone (pre-orders)?
Go read or something.Where do they mention anything more recent than a few weeks in to November on http://butterflylabs.com/ ?
December 02, 2011, 01:37:10 AM
I think its a scam in a sense of deceiving. Just as i said, all the "as seen on TV" crap has the same sales tactic.
Apparently Inaba is their "Shamwow" guy.
OMG, Time to lock this thread again.Apparently Inaba is their "Shamwow" guy.
Maybe start a new one with a different title, some people are still stuck at defining the word "SC**" in their head.
I would look for revelent post right after BFL posts, (https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/bfl-44366)
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