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Topic: 2000-4000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge - page 5. (Read 29061 times)

legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 10, 2012, 10:57:24 AM
Dank, don't listen to people saying that you need to go out and work in the industry before actually starting a business. If this is something you want, go ahead and do it.

That being said, this business is very likely to fail even if you work hard at it. Deepak Chopra "If I will it I'll be successful" bullshit aside, most small service-based businesses fail in the first few years. Even if you had the history here to make people trust you with this kind of money, this would be a fairly high risk investment. You need to get a much more solid plan than a spreadsheet that say X people * $Y/person - rent = profit! if you actually want to start getting a real feel for the business and have them invest. If you're serious, you need to put in some serious legwork before coming around asking for investors. Thinking about what kinds of tips you'll use isn't part of a real business plan.

Good luck with this.
That's how I've always felt, if you want to learn how to do something, you don't watch other people do it, you do it yourself.

The spreadsheet's a little more complex than that, it's 40 lines long so far.  Once I talk to my lawyer and get an idea of regulations, licenses and taxes involved, they'll be added to the spreadsheet.  I'll probably take business counseling at a local college in the next week or two, as well.  Unfortunately, most everything I've ever planned in my life was planned in my head, I'll work to transfer it into a business plan over the next week.

I'm quite confident in this business and don't like waiting when I could be starting it, I hope an investor sees the potential I do.

Thank you.

@RodeoX Awesome.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
September 10, 2012, 10:51:58 AM
If you build it, I will come. 


legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
September 10, 2012, 10:42:06 AM
Dank, don't listen to people saying that you need to go out and work in the industry before actually starting a business. If this is something you want, go ahead and do it.

That being said, this business is very likely to fail even if you work hard at it. Deepak Chopra "If I will it I'll be successful" bullshit aside, most small service-based businesses fail in the first few years. Even if you had the history here to make people trust you with this kind of money, this would be a fairly high risk investment. You need to get a much more solid plan than a spreadsheet that say X people * $Y/person - rent = profit! if you actually want to start getting a real feel for the business and have them invest. If you're serious, you need to put in some serious legwork before coming around asking for investors. Thinking about what kinds of tips you'll use isn't part of a real business plan.

Good luck with this.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 10, 2012, 12:35:49 AM
We will also use diffused tips in our hookahs, for a smoother smoke.  Just another thing that will make us the best hookah lounge.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 04:00:06 PM
I live in a big State-College town and we have 3 (?) Hookah lounges here that I know of, all serve some sort of food also.  Regardless, if there aren't any other Hookah lounges in your big college town it shouldn't be too hard to succeed with proper marketing etc.
Thanks for the support.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 250
Look for the bear necessities!!
September 09, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
I live in a big State-College town and we have 3 (?) Hookah lounges here that I know of, all serve some sort of food also.  Regardless, if there aren't any other Hookah lounges in your big college town it shouldn't be too hard to succeed with proper marketing etc.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 03:29:37 PM
Quote
Well youre correct, his business can't be compared to yours. While his is an actual brick and mortar establishment, your's is merely a thrown-together business plan. And again, no offense intended, but hookah lounges aren't incredibly profitable as stand-alone businesses. Most are attached to established bars/coffee houses with a pre-existing customer base. Coming from a decade in the service industry with over half of those years in coffee houses WITH hookah lounges, its tough. To get the good seesha you have to order directly from UAE or Lebanon (trade with UAE is restricted). Importers in American sell sub-par quality seesha to white guys (again, not meant to be discriminatory, just a cold fact) at inflated prices. If you are interested more I would be willing to discuss more via PM and I can happily provide websites of both the places I managed as further proof.
Not trying to discourage you. If you have a corner on the market it is possible to overcome and become profitable after a couple years, theres just alot to consider. For instance, in some municipalities the ability to sell tobacco is linked to liquor licenses (limited by design)  
I guess we will find out, since it seems to me that hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service.  Not that I think it's appropriate to compare it with any existing hookah lounge, really, mine will have a huge 6000 square foot facility with live music, an attached smokeshop, downtown, with colleges all around.  I think I'll be turning profit in a few months, not years, we'll see.

Where are you getting the idea that "hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service"?  You just had someone who actually knows a thing or two about the business tell you that it's not.  
My calculations.

Of course the environment is probably bigger factor, which we will champion too.
sr. member
Activity: 275
Merit: 250
September 09, 2012, 03:28:23 PM
Quote

I guess we will find out, since it seems to me that hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service.

Where are you getting the idea that "hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service"?  You just had someone who actually knows a thing or two about the business tell you that it's not.   
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
#99
I dont know what state you live in, but in mine (Ohio) it is against the law to smoke indoors. There are exceptions, for businesses who make their primary revenue from tobacco sales. We have many hooka lounges in my area due to the vicinity to Dearborn, but they can only sell very small snacks ie candy bars and bags of chips. The most popular one here is 1 block from a major MAC University with a HUGE Middle Eastern customer base and the owner basically lives in the back in order to stay afloat. Not trying to bash your business idea, but the days of profiting from tobacco are gone
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.


Well youre correct, his business can't be compared to yours. While his is an actual brick and mortar establishment, your's is merely a thrown-together business plan. And again, no offense intended, but hookah lounges aren't incredibly profitable as stand-alone businesses. Most are attached to established bars/coffee houses with a pre-existing customer base. Coming from a decade in the service industry with over half of those years in coffee houses WITH hookah lounges, its tough. To get the good seesha you have to order directly from UAE or Lebanon (trade with UAE is restricted). Importers in American sell sub-par quality seesha to white guys (again, not meant to be discriminatory, just a cold fact) at inflated prices. If you are interested more I would be willing to discuss more via PM and I can happily provide websites of both the places I managed as further proof.
Not trying to discourage you. If you have a corner on the market it is possible to overcome and become profitable after a couple years, theres just alot to consider. For instance, in some municipalities the ability to sell tobacco is linked to liquor licenses (limited by design)  
I guess we will find out, since it seems to me that hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service.  Not that I think it's appropriate to compare it with any existing hookah lounge, really, mine will have a huge 6000 square foot facility with live music, an attached smokeshop, downtown, with colleges all around.  I think I'll be turning profit in a few months, not years, we'll see.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
September 09, 2012, 02:39:25 PM
#98
I dont know what state you live in, but in mine (Ohio) it is against the law to smoke indoors. There are exceptions, for businesses who make their primary revenue from tobacco sales. We have many hooka lounges in my area due to the vicinity to Dearborn, but they can only sell very small snacks ie candy bars and bags of chips. The most popular one here is 1 block from a major MAC University with a HUGE Middle Eastern customer base and the owner basically lives in the back in order to stay afloat. Not trying to bash your business idea, but the days of profiting from tobacco are gone
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.




[/quote]

[/quote]

Well youre correct, his business can't be compared to yours. While his is an actual brick and mortar establishment, your's is merely a thrown-together business plan. And again, no offense intended, but hookah lounges aren't incredibly profitable as stand-alone businesses. Most are attached to established bars/coffee houses with a pre-existing customer base. Coming from a decade in the service industry with over half of those years in coffee houses WITH hookah lounges, its tough. To get the good seesha you have to order directly from UAE or Lebanon (trade with UAE is restricted). Importers in American sell sub-par quality seesha to white guys (again, not meant to be discriminatory, just a cold fact) at inflated prices. If you are interested more I would be willing to discuss more via PM and I can happily provide websites of both the places I managed as further proof.
Not trying to discourage you. If you have a corner on the market it is possible to overcome and become profitable after a couple years, theres just alot to consider. For instance, in some municipalities the ability to sell tobacco is linked to liquor licenses (limited by design)  
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 02:31:13 PM
#97
Quote
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.



What market data do you have to support any numbers on your spreadsheet?  

Also, since you have no track record in this industry that would support high risk venture capital investment, what do you have as collateral for a $20k-$40k loan?  
I've simply calculated potential revenue factored by things such as number of people/group, groups/hour, operational hours/day, and prices for various services.  My spreadsheet simply says if I can get 48 customers/day, 144 on Friday/Saturday and 96 on Sunday, I will earn $13,600 in profit each month.  That takes into account rent, material costs and wages.  For the size facility I'm looking at, these estimates are fairly low and could be doubled or tripled practically.

You're right, I have no track record, because I'm 18.  That doesn't mean I'm a high risk, I obviously have an idea of what I'm doing.  Dismissing someone's idea because they haven't done it yet or because of their age is fallacious.  This project isn't going to fail, I'm quite confident in my ability to attract 48 customers/day even though I would only need half that to turn profit.

So what can I offer in collateral?  Nothing now, tomorrow, everything.  I have to start somewhere before I get somewhere.

A good place to start would be getting some experience in the service industry.  A few years getting to know the ins and outs of everything that goes into managing such an operation would give investors confidence.  Without a track record, collateral, or even market research, and absolutely no monetary risk to yourself, you're basically asking for $40k for an idea.  Even with the best intentions, that is about as high risk as it gets -- You have zero chance of securing a loan with a bank.  We'll see what happens here.  
I did a project on managing restaurants in 7th grade.  I learned the same information in a high school business class, it's not that complicated that you have to plan for years before doing it.  As with anything in life, you just have to do it.  The idea that you need to work for somebody before doing things yourself is wrong.  

Anybody is capable of anything, I've demonstrated my capability to manage a profitable hookah lounge through numbers, you're saying I'm not capable of it because I haven't worked for a few years, which I think is ridiculous.

I have all the incentive in the world to make this hookah lounge as successful as possible, because I have a plan for my life.  I have goals including million dollar business ventures and becoming a rockstar, which I know I will reach.  This is a stepping stone to reach those goals, I'm not just suggesting I get a $40k loan for a hookah bar as a side job that may or may not succeed.  I will be putting all of my effort into this lounge to ensure it will succeed, no matter what.  That right there should be incentive for an investor.
sr. member
Activity: 275
Merit: 250
September 09, 2012, 02:21:39 PM
#96
Quote
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.



What market data do you have to support any numbers on your spreadsheet?  

Also, since you have no track record in this industry that would support high risk venture capital investment, what do you have as collateral for a $20k-$40k loan?  
I've simply calculated potential revenue factored by things such as number of people/group, groups/hour, operational hours/day, and prices for various services.  My spreadsheet simply says if I can get 48 customers/day, 144 on Friday/Saturday and 96 on Sunday, I will earn $13,600 in profit each month.  That takes into account rent, material costs and wages.  For the size facility I'm looking at, these estimates are fairly low and could be doubled or tripled practically.

You're right, I have no track record, because I'm 18.  That doesn't mean I'm a high risk, I obviously have an idea of what I'm doing.  Dismissing someone's idea because they haven't done it yet or because of their age is fallacious.  This project isn't going to fail, I'm quite confident in my ability to attract 48 customers/day even though I would only need half that to turn profit.

So what can I offer in collateral?  Nothing now, tomorrow, everything.  I have to start somewhere before I get somewhere.

A good place to start would be getting some experience in the service industry.  A few years getting to know the ins and outs of everything that goes into managing such an operation would give investors confidence.  Without a track record, collateral, or even market research, and absolutely no monetary risk to yourself, you're basically asking for $40k for an idea.  Even with the best intentions, that is about as high risk as it gets -- You have zero chance of securing a loan with a bank.  We'll see what happens here.   
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 02:10:28 PM
#95
Quote
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.



What market data do you have to support any numbers on your spreadsheet?  

Also, since you have no track record in this industry that would support high risk venture capital investment, what do you have as collateral for a $20k-$40k loan?  
I've simply calculated potential revenue factored by things such as number of people/group, groups/hour, operational hours/day, and prices for various services.  My spreadsheet simply says if I can get 48 customers/day, 144 on Friday/Saturday and 96 on Sunday, I will earn $13,600 in profit each month.  That takes into account rent, material costs and wages.  For the size facility I'm looking at, these estimates are fairly low and could be doubled or tripled practically.

You're right, I have no track record, because I'm 18.  That doesn't mean I'm a high risk, I obviously have an idea of what I'm doing.  Dismissing someone's idea because they haven't done it yet or because of their age is fallacious.  This project isn't going to fail, I'm quite confident in my ability to attract 48 customers/day even though I would only need half that to turn profit.

So what can I offer in collateral?  Nothing now, tomorrow, everything.  I have to start somewhere before I get somewhere.
sr. member
Activity: 275
Merit: 250
September 09, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
#94
Quote
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.



What market data do you have to support any numbers on your spreadsheet? 

Also, since you have no track record in this industry that would support high risk venture capital investment, what do you have as collateral for a $20k-$40k loan? 
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 01:54:20 PM
#93
I dont know what state you live in, but in mine (Ohio) it is against the law to smoke indoors. There are exceptions, for businesses who make their primary revenue from tobacco sales. We have many hooka lounges in my area due to the vicinity to Dearborn, but they can only sell very small snacks ie candy bars and bags of chips. The most popular one here is 1 block from a major MAC University with a HUGE Middle Eastern customer base and the owner basically lives in the back in order to stay afloat. Not trying to bash your business idea, but the days of profiting from tobacco are gone
According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.

For example, you lend me 4000 BTC @ $11/coin, $44,000 and I plan on repaying it over two years with 2% interest/month.  Our monthly payment would equal $1870, or 167 BTC, including interest.

You know that what you're proposing is a total 0.2% interest for the whole loan duration, right? Far from 2%/month!

Also, you should use real formulas to make your simulations, especially if you want to be able to do an early buyout of your loan. For example, the first month you will generate 2% of 4000 BTC as interests, that is 80 BTC. If you reimburse 210 BTC, 80 of them are interests, while 130 of them will decrease the capital you still owe. The second month will generate 2% of 3870 BTC as interests, that is 77.4 BTC. Our of your 210 BTC, 77.4 will be interests while 132.6 BTC will reduce your debt. And so on.
Sorry, I meant 2% of each months payment as interest.  I'll work out a formula when I know exactly what manner and how much interest we'll be dealing with.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
September 09, 2012, 01:48:19 PM
#92
For example, you lend me 4000 BTC @ $11/coin, $44,000 and I plan on repaying it over two years with 2% interest/month.  Our monthly payment would equal $1870, or 167 BTC, including interest.

You know that what you're proposing is a total 0.2% interest for the whole loan duration, right? Far from 2%/month!

Also, you should use real formulas to make your simulations, especially if you want to be able to do an early buyout of your loan. For example, the first month you will generate 2% of 4000 BTC as interests, that is 80 BTC. If you reimburse 210 BTC, 80 of them are interests, while 130 of them will decrease the capital you still owe. The second month will generate 2% of 3870 BTC as interests, that is 77.4 BTC. Our of your 210 BTC, 77.4 will be interests while 132.6 BTC will reduce your debt. And so on.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
September 09, 2012, 01:41:55 PM
#91
I dont know what state you live in, but in mine (Ohio) it is against the law to smoke indoors. There are exceptions, for businesses who make their primary revenue from tobacco sales. We have many hooka lounges in my area due to the vicinity to Dearborn, but they can only sell very small snacks ie candy bars and bags of chips. The most popular one here is 1 block from a major MAC University with a HUGE Middle Eastern customer base and the owner basically lives in the back in order to stay afloat. Not trying to bash your business idea, but the days of profiting from tobacco are gone
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 01:33:55 PM
#90
Are you accounting for VAT, because it doesn't look like you do?
We'll be operating in America, but no, I will add taxes into the spreadsheets when I have more information regarding them.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
September 09, 2012, 01:27:19 PM
#89
Are you accounting for VAT, because it doesn't look like you do?
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
September 09, 2012, 01:21:45 PM
#88
Rewrote initial post now that I've had time to look through the idea.
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