Topic: 22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution - page 20. (Read 18771 times)

Micro-evolution is observable.  I believe in "micro-evolution" or otherwise known as adaptation.  

Here is a video that shows the amazing "well documented" human evolution fossils from NOVA which is basically the shaving down of a fossil to make it "fit" the idea of how humans probably evolved. A creationist would never get away with shaving down a fossil to make it fit their belief.  I am not sure why evolutionist are allowed to.  This is supposed to be good "science" BTW:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_U9SCyWw4w   Another video worth a watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef8aAfWbpjc

Don't know how to break this to ya... But you can't find a single fossil that (somehow) is supposed to demonstrate evolution in a single lifeform. You're asking for a fossil of a lifeform that somehow managed to reach an age of 150 Million years and transform.
You're looking in to wrong place, fossils are merely puzzle pieces, plus they're a terribly bad place to look for precise genetic evolution (the genetic material is non-recoverable with todays technology, thus all that remains is the shape and basic construction, which allows a limited reconstruction of its habitat and a bit of its lifestyle).

I already gave you one of many possible answers earlier in the thread, your question is long solved.

What you however are asking for is a complete timeline - by fossils and artifacts - that demonstrates the entire string of evolution. That does not exist (yet), but I also wrote the reasons for that earlier in the thread.
Take a mammoth and an elephant instead, or a sabre tooth tiger and a modern tiger, these are better suited examples if you (for some reason) refuse to look at the various well-documented human evolution steps.

And never confuse "faith" with verifyable scientific proof, another general mistake (not by accident I presume) religious people often make to avoid giving up their "faith", as they lack every little bit of proof themselves (and historically just about every single claim they made about the universe ended up being the delusional type where they originated, once a scientific verification was undertaken).
Myth and makebelieve superstitions... Sheeple, mindless robots, at least one thing is certain : de-evolution is also possible in a sense, they demonstrate that often enough.

Once again, it's proven pointless handing verifyable scientific proof to religious robots - even on a silver plate right under their noses - as their arguments are as fake as their believes.
They don't want to learn, they want to spread seeds of doubt to the scientifically illiterate/undereducated to convert them and join their army of the mindless believers.

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here.

My point in wanting ONE fossil that shows how one kind has changed into another kind is to make the point that there is not solid observable evidence that supports the theory of evolution.  Therefore it takes "faith" to believe in it.

Your faith in evolution is not much different in my faith in creation.

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  But there isn't one.  There is no concrete evidence otherwise.  These so called "transitional fossils" are not enough evidence to support this.  The fossils that are found are one that show micro-evolution, which is basically adaptations that happen within a species but not outside of the species.  Changes do and can occur within a species for sure but dogs cannot mate with cats, and so on.  Also, mutations are not observed as beneficial in our world.  They lead to major problems, such as Down's syndrome and other serious issues. The only "solution" is to throw unobservable millions of years at the problem and then that is called good "science."  That is pure speculation without any evidence to support it.  The evidence supports that animals cannot mate outside of their own kinds and when changes do happen because of mutations problems occur.

BTW,  if the earth really was millions and billions of years old the temperature of the sun is a major issue to consider.  The temperature of the sun would have been too cold back then to support life at all.

When your only arguments are "I have no idea... so god!" and "just trust me -- it's god," you automatically lose.

*ugh* what ?
Evolution = Advancement over time, where the term "advancement" also equals ability of survival in a dynamic environment (genetic fitness)

If you seriously think that were not more advanced than a cockroach, then you should revisit school (or get some education from scientists/teachers in general)
While I agree on the intelligence also having certain downsides, that is simply how life works : potentials and risks.
And while we're able to do great harm, our ability to adapt (in ways a cockroach could never do) also ensures our potantial for survival as a species, even after a full-blown global thermonuclear war. Nature doesn't care if 7 Billion humans live on the planet's surface or 50 Million survivors live a mile deep underground.


And here we go again. Clear sign of a human brain capitulating due to lack of knowledge and processing capability - to believes (the EZ shortcut for those that don't, can't or don't want to get it).
Terms like "Leaps of faith" are human inventions and don't exist in nature in that context. Nature (pardon my french) doesn't give a sh*t. Adapt & survive or die and have your habitat replaced by other species. Eat and get eaten, harsh and simple as that.

While you cannot understand how evolution happens, that doesn't mean I or others share the same unfortunate fate. We do understand (to the best of your abilities and knowledge), that's the main difference. Btw. it doesn't "happen" (typical religious vision of things) it occurs over time due to mutation (transgenetic, radiation), stochastics (random genetic malfunctions that turn out useful) and genetic evolution (breeds) over long timeframes (all put in very inaccurate, layman's terms).
And by time, I don't mean some magic few days of creation, a few years or a few generations. I'm talking tens, hundreds and thousands of millena, these are timeframes that (for some reason) seem to be incompehensible dimensions for religious people. Eons of time. Our own planet, solar system and galaxy formed over even much bigger timeframes, so much we know already (and another creationist/religious myth is busted)

God is eternal and omniscient, all powerful and all knowing.  He created time and we cannot understand things beyond those limits in our human form.  This is one of the things we have to take on faith. We do not have the capacity to understand everything, even though with pride man thinks they know more than God most of the time. 

All that said, there is more evidence that leads to design.  Both evolution and creation need some leap of faith.  We cannot understand how evolution could just "happen" either.  The question becomes is there more proof of intelligent design in our world or a world where things just happen on their own?  It takes less faith to believe in a designer.

Why are you not applying that same logic to god? So it's ok for god, a being far more complex that both us and phones, to come out of nothing? He must've been designed according to your logic.

What scientific testable method do you have for god? I don't understand how you can pick holes on the theory of evolution and claim it's faith, yet you deny evolution based on lack of evidence (even though there is lots), but believe in god without any evidence at all?

If I was walking in the wilderness and saw a cellphone lying on the ground would the thought ever cross my mind "Wow.  What a strange thing that has evolved out of the dirt?"  A cell phone is a complicated device that obviously had someone intelligent design it.  So then to look at the complex structure of the human body or all other living organisms (which are far more complicated in design then a cell phone) and say, "Wow.  How did humans just evolve out of the dirt?"  Is just as illogical.

God did not make our cell phone.  But he gave us the intelligence we needed to do so.  Without Him we could not make a cell phone because without Him we would not exist to begin with.

Hundreds or thousands? I have found hundreds of fossils myself.
There are millions of fossils in museums and universities, and they are all transitional fossils. Evolution never stops and each individual who successfully breeds creates unique offspring. Even an alligator. So why do alligators look the same as many of their ancestors? Simple, their body and behaviors still work. Their is no evolutionary driver to cause change when things are working.
If you go back far enough you will find many species of alligators that lived far from water and galloped around like horses when they ran. They did not survive, but ambush hunting in the swamp is still a good strategy. The crocks that followed that path are still here.   

You can't begin to comprehend how a cellphone works, so god must have made your iphone.

It is the height of arrogance to say that if "we" can't understand something then it must be transcendent or supernatural. We don't fully understand what every part of our genome does yet, but we understand orders of magnitude more than we did 50 years ago, and in 50 years' time we'll understand more. Genetic code is a particular complex arrangement of molecules, but our environment is chaotic enough and vast enough that complex arrangements of molecules happen *all the time*. The only special thing about this particular arrangement is that it makes more of itself and thus sticks around.

Unfortunately, the fact that it is the overwhelming scientific consensus means that we are not the ones with something to prove here. There is a vast body of evidence to support evolution by natural selection which you can avail yourself of at your heart's content, including many 'transition' fossils, but perhaps most convincing is the fact that the degree of relatedness (as measured by the % of the genetic code that is identical) of two different species matches up very well with the age of the latest common ancestor of those species in every case where sufficient evidence has been found.

But in any case, evolution is directly observable in the process you describe as 'micro-evolution'. Within human history we have observed entirely new species evolving to adapt to our presence and dominance - dogs and most modern 'farm animals' for a start - and today the process is readily observable in populations of species that breed very quickly such as insects and bacteria. The distinction between 'micro' and 'macro' evolution is also arbitrary - macro-evolution is just micro-evolution happening constantly for a really long time.

As an aside, the argument "All the good and perfect things come from God, all bad things come from us disobeying" is absurd. God (in your view) not only created us fallible, weak and mortal, but also created the very concept of sin, the mechanisms whereby we sin, and the capacity of other people to suffer as a result of our sin. "But she sent her only son to die for our sins!" This is also quite absurd since she created the system where a sacrifice was needed a sacrifice in the first place and, being omnipotent, could have ignored it if she wanted.

Are you actually trying to request a fossil of some sort of half monkey fish bird or something? This is like asking for proof of the same skeleton to prove babies grow into adults. Well there are no skeletons of the exact same baby and the same adult skeleton, therefore babies cannot grow into adults. The changes in evolution are tiny and appear over thousands/millions of years, and it's not just physical fossil evidence but also DNA.

Care to share the maths behind this please? We're all professional cryographers here!

I'm not sure that you're logic is the best for this job, no offense but you seem pretty ignorant and indoctrinated.

As for your 'kinds' question. What is a 'kind' (where did you learn that term for something?) Do you mean why can't a dog fuck a sheep and make a dog-sheep? Thats biology, something you have to learn by STUDYING, not just applying your brainwashed logic to ("OMG so a dog cant fuck a cat therefore evolution can't be real!") 

And where, exactly, does your god come from? Who created her?

creationism is purest form of bullshit.

Sin is what make life sucks, which entered the world because man chose to disobey God's laws.  Every good and perfect gift comes from God but God gets blamed for all of our bad choices.  That does not really seem fair to me.

Great, so god exists because life sucks.