We are talking about the power draw of the device, not device + host, as host has nothing to do with the efficiency of the miner. Surely someone will post confirmation of the device plugged directly into a killawatt with the host going to another outlet, or will provide such a video on request. USB max power is around 2.5 watts, so that's minimal.
Edit-
Measuring at the jack would be more accurate as mrb states, and I'm fine going by those rules as well. Although, I wouldn't want to depend on three customers pulling out their multimeters and posting a video before July 1st. I'm going to agree with Micon that deciding winners will be pretty clear cut, and I trust that he would accept a video of either method proving 150mh/j
Topic: 280 BTC total bets between Micon and mrb (are BFL ASICs real?) - page 5. (Read 46369 times)
Power should be measured just like in our first bet: by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts.
Interesting point. The bet with CrazyBlane isn't specific about how/where the power is measured.
Why not specify a cheap device like a Raspberry Pi? As little of the power draw as possible should be from whatever computer to which the ASIC is attached. A Pi probably costs much less than even a small fraction of the bet.
Power should be measured just like in our first bet: by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts.
Interesting point. The bet with CrazyBlane isn't specific about how/where the power is measured.
Micon: I sent 100 BTC to http://blockchain.info/address/1Dtf7TrZrQr7QooVGoKfd99rxHNoikQ3EH
Terms of the bet copied below (and very slightly edited for clarity):
BFL will ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices capable of at least 150MH/s per watt to at least 3 customers (at least 1 device per customer) who post pix & verify hashrate by 12:01am EST July 1st 2013. No BFL-employee or anyone that has been to BFL labs personally can qualify to publish pix & hashrate. Power should be measured just like in our first bet: by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts.
mrb believes the above statement is true.
Micon believes it is false.
Micon, please quote me and send your 100 BTC. Dooglus: thanks for being the escrow!
Terms of the bet copied below (and very slightly edited for clarity):
BFL will ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices capable of at least 150MH/s per watt to at least 3 customers (at least 1 device per customer) who post pix & verify hashrate by 12:01am EST July 1st 2013. No BFL-employee or anyone that has been to BFL labs personally can qualify to publish pix & hashrate. Power should be measured just like in our first bet: by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts.
mrb believes the above statement is true.
Micon believes it is false.
Micon, please quote me and send your 100 BTC. Dooglus: thanks for being the escrow!
Lol, I would never try to collect on something like that. It's obvious that the intention is for a bet between CrazyBlane and Micon, and doesn't involve me at all. But sure, it's probably better to get all ducks in a row.
Yeah, I was mostly just trying to be funny. I think the intention is pretty clear.
I'm sure this won't be an issue, CrazyBlane seems reasonable. I will state at this stage that I'm obviously betting that BFL won't ship by 7/1. won't be an issue
Yes, mistake in the last sentence on my part. I don't suspect Sgt Spike would try to pull a Matthew Wright on our bet. Micon wins, he gets the coin. I win, I get the coin. Terms are very clear on what determines winner so I don't expect dooglus will need to be involved any further.
I really like this escrow tool as well. I can see it being expanded to include multiple escrow agents where 2/3 of escrow agents have to agree to release the third key. Great idea and implementation Casascius!
IMO trusted users like dooglus should make a small % acting as escrow. could btc-address could easily add functionality to send a small % to the escrow agent once the bet was settled? most times the escrow would automatically make the small commish, occasionally a big fiasco would arise and a real determination would need to be made. That is where the escrow earns all those small %'s over time IMO.
Perhaps a website could be set up which issues escrow codes automatically once two people agree on a contract. You both get to edit the contract on the site, and once you both agree, it gives you your escrow codes, one each, and keeps a copy of the codes, GPG encrypted to my private key. So even if someone gains unauthorised access to the site's database, they don't get to see the escrow codes.
That should allow for fully automatic escrowed betting (and trading of all kinds) where I only have to get involved in the event of a dispute.
Micon: pm'd
email'd envi-code
While this thread has been up and down in terms of entertainment value, one of the most actually interesting aspects of it is the implementation in the real world of this escrow concept, which could be easily used for non-gambling contracts and effectively be self-enforcing. Conceivably, practices like this could cull the herd of the worst scammers, without the inefficiencies of the court system, that has so far prevented these scammers from being prosecuted and allowed them to steal at will.
Of course, as the real value of trusted arbitrators increased, it might be they eventually would cost as much as real judges and mediators.
Of course, as the real value of trusted arbitrators increased, it might be they eventually would cost as much as real judges and mediators.
IMO trusted users like dooglus should make a small % acting as escrow. could btc-address could easily add functionality to send a small % to the escrow agent once the bet was settled? most times the escrow would automatically make the small commish, occasionally a big fiasco would arise and a real determination would need to be made. That is where the escrow earns all those small %'s over time IMO.
While this thread has been up and down in terms of entertainment value, one of the most actually interesting aspects of it is the implementation in the real world of this escrow concept, which could be easily used for non-gambling contracts and effectively be self-enforcing. Conceivably, practices like this could cull the herd of the worst scammers, without the inefficiencies of the court system, that has so far prevented these scammers from being prosecuted and allowed them to steal at will.
Of course, as the real value of trusted arbitrators increased, it might be they eventually would cost as much as real judges and mediators.
Of course, as the real value of trusted arbitrators increased, it might be they eventually would cost as much as real judges and mediators.
Micon: pm'd
I'll think about that offer today and might take you up on it.
cool, you have a few more hrs to take me up on it. Seems generous on my part, but do respect the degen
While not really surprising given the character quality of the bettors, it's refreshing to see you fellas behaving honorably. If only some of it would rub off on the company in question.
don't hold your breath IMO
Lol, I would never try to collect on something like that. It's obvious that the intention is for a bet between CrazyBlane and Micon, and doesn't involve me at all. But sure, it's probably better to get all ducks in a row.
Yeah, I was mostly just trying to be funny. I think the intention is pretty clear.
I'm sure this won't be an issue, CrazyBlane seems reasonable. I will state at this stage that I'm obviously betting that BFL won't ship by 7/1. won't be an issue
Micon, I am willing to put up a bet on the same terms as SgtSpike's last bet, with 100 BTC each.
I have escrow code from Dooglus, I have generated the payment invitation for you and have generated a hash
1Dtf7TrZrQr7QooVGoKfd99rxHNoikQ3EH
please PM me an email Mrb (sorry if I already have it) and I'll send you the envi-code securely
While not really surprising given the character quality of the bettors, it's refreshing to see you fellas behaving honorably. If only some of it would rub off on the company in question.
Lol, I would never try to collect on something like that. It's obvious that the intention is for a bet between CrazyBlane and Micon, and doesn't involve me at all. But sure, it's probably better to get all ducks in a row.
Yeah, I was mostly just trying to be funny. I think the intention is pretty clear.
mrb: I can provide an escrow code if you're happy for me to escrow the bet. PM me your email address and (optionally) your GPG public key.
I've sent escrow codes to Micon and mrb.
I'll quote the terms of the recent bets here as a hedge against future shenanigans:
...
BFL will ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices capable of at least 150MH/s per watt to at least 3 customers (at least 1 device per customer) who post pix & verify hashrate by 12:01am EST 7/1. No BFL-employee or anyone that has been to BFL labs personally to settle the 3 customers pix & hashrate. If BFL ships a device that does not meet the power specification, but then does ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices meeting the above criteria before the deadline, then SgtSpike wins the bet.
...
BFL will ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices capable of at least 150MH/s per watt to at least 3 customers (at least 1 device per customer) who post pix & verify hashrate by 12:01am EST 7/1. No BFL-employee or anyone that has been to BFL labs personally to settle the 3 customers pix & hashrate. If BFL ships a device that does not meet the power specification, but then does ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices meeting the above criteria before the deadline, then SgtSpike wins the bet.
...
I would like to move forward on our measly 5 BTC bet with the same terms written above. Are we using Escrow?
I'm assuming we replace 'SgtSpike' with 'CrazyBlane' or 'mrb' in the quoted paragraph. Having SgtSpike win those 2 bets on a technicality would suck.
mrb: I can provide an escrow code if you're happy for me to escrow the bet. PM me your email address and (optionally) your GPG public key.
I've sent escrow codes to Micon and mrb.
I'll quote the terms of the recent bets here as a hedge against future shenanigans:
...
BFL will ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices capable of at least 150MH/s per watt to at least 3 customers (at least 1 device per customer) who post pix & verify hashrate by 12:01am EST 7/1. No BFL-employee or anyone that has been to BFL labs personally to settle the 3 customers pix & hashrate. If BFL ships a device that does not meet the power specification, but then does ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices meeting the above criteria before the deadline, then SgtSpike wins the bet.
...
BFL will ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices capable of at least 150MH/s per watt to at least 3 customers (at least 1 device per customer) who post pix & verify hashrate by 12:01am EST 7/1. No BFL-employee or anyone that has been to BFL labs personally to settle the 3 customers pix & hashrate. If BFL ships a device that does not meet the power specification, but then does ship out at least 3 ASIC mining devices meeting the above criteria before the deadline, then SgtSpike wins the bet.
...
I would like to move forward on our measly 5 BTC bet with the same terms written above. Are we using Escrow?
I'm assuming we replace 'SgtSpike' with 'CrazyBlane' or 'mrb' in the quoted paragraph. Having SgtSpike win those 2 bets on a technicality would suck.
It is unbelievable to me the amount of fail that is going to go into not only mrb and I almost assuredly losing our original bets on BFL, but possibly also SgtSpike. Congrats Micon, while I won't officially concede at this point, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll meet 350MH/J given that Josh has said expect 170MH/J. SgtSpike should be safe baring BFL catastrophe, but who knows at this point.
I expect at least a shoutout as a sponsor if you make the November Nine from my bet.
I expect at least a shoutout as a sponsor if you make the November Nine from my bet.
MrTeal I feel your pain as you have supported BFL for so long.
If you would like a small rebate, and I will ensure the bet won, send me your envi-code & a hash to [email protected] within the next 24 hours and I'll send you back 5 coins.
No worries if you do not want to do this and sweat the remaining 14 days.
LOL... I definitely wouldn't call myself a BFL supporter. I did make a preorder with them, but I also had one with bASIC and would have bought an Avalon if I was ever able to be online for their botched sales.
I made the bets because in early February when we made the bet I thought there while their mid to late February timeline was BS, there was better than a 50% chance of them shipping by the end of March so a 1:1 bet made sense. Obviously they blew that pretty badly. The second bet was a little more questionable, 2:1 odds were good on what seemed like reasonable chance that they could meet some sort of deadline. I do admit that my judgement was clouded by wanting to chase back the coins I'd already lost though. By the end of March they had functioning prototypes even if they had some issues. A month lead time should be more than sufficient to do a couple board revs and get units out the door, but they're cutting it close. I still think there's a decent chance they'll get out the 3 units they need to satisfy the bet by the end of April now that they're resigned to shipping what they have, but the power specification looks like it's almost a lost cause.
I'll think about that offer today and might take you up on it.
It is unbelievable to me the amount of fail that is going to go into not only mrb and I almost assuredly losing our original bets on BFL, but possibly also SgtSpike. Congrats Micon, while I won't officially concede at this point, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll meet 350MH/J given that Josh has said expect 170MH/J. SgtSpike should be safe baring BFL catastrophe, but who knows at this point.
I expect at least a shoutout as a sponsor if you make the November Nine from my bet.
I expect at least a shoutout as a sponsor if you make the November Nine from my bet.
MrTeal I feel your pain as you have supported BFL for so long.
If you would like a small rebate, and I will ensure the bet won, send me your envi-code & a hash to [email protected] within the next 24 hours and I'll send you back 5 coins.
No worries if you do not want to do this and sweat the remaining 14 days.
Casascius recently drew my attention to this site:
http://www.bitescrow.org/
It implements his escrow system in an offline web page so you don't need to mess with Mono or .NET.
let's get a new set of escrow codes and you have a bet
mrb: I can provide an escrow code if you're happy for me to escrow the bet. PM me your email address and (optionally) your GPG public key.
http://www.bitescrow.org/
It implements his escrow system in an offline web page so you don't need to mess with Mono or .NET.
Micon, I am willing to put up a bet on the same terms as SgtSpike's last bet, with 100 BTC each.
let's get a new set of escrow codes and you have a bet
mrb: I can provide an escrow code if you're happy for me to escrow the bet. PM me your email address and (optionally) your GPG public key.
Micon, I am willing to put up a bet on the same terms as SgtSpike's last bet, with 100 BTC each.
let's get a new set of escrow codes and you have a bet
It is unbelievable to me the amount of fail that is going to go into not only mrb and I almost assuredly losing our original bets on BFL, but possibly also SgtSpike. Congrats Micon, while I won't officially concede at this point, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll meet 350MH/J given that Josh has said expect 170MH/J. SgtSpike should be safe baring BFL catastrophe, but who knows at this point.
I expect at least a shoutout as a sponsor if you make the November Nine from my bet.
I expect at least a shoutout as a sponsor if you make the November Nine from my bet.
Micon, I am willing to put up a bet on the same terms as SgtSpike's last bet, with 100 BTC each.
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