28nm ** 1T ** 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!! - page 11.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 09:47:08 PM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 04:13:51 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 06, 2014, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

The *something* is a JTminer. Can't wait for your review.

Why would ckolivas incriminate himself?

They asked me to review it I said I would not, as I am not in the business of reviewing hardware or supporting any manufacturer. They then offered to send me hardware, to which I said I would graciously accept it - to make it possible for them to submit their driver code for inclusion to master cgminer and have me help them. When the hardware arrives I will gladly validate that it exists, hashes etc, but I cannot vouch for the company's business in any other way since I am not a customer as such.

This may be relevant for you ckolivas: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s88.html

As there seems to be a demand for these Chinese miners based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 in Australia, I've referred this and other threads on similar machines to the Australian Federal Police for some clarification as to whether it would be lawful to import and be in possession of these machines.

More vendors means more competition which is always good for customers. However customers should be able to confidently make purchases in good faith that the machines are 100% legitimately manufactured and not have to potentially face legal sanctions later on after parting with their hard earned money.

I was not aware there was anything claiming these were stolen apart from some questionable post on an unrelated forum with machine translation? If you can point me to reasonable suspicion these are stolen goods I'd of course have no interest in reviewing or promoting them - heck it would make handling them and not trying to wire them up much easier, just give them to the AFP. I'm very open about all my actions and put my real name to my actions here at all times and have never tried to hide my identity so of course I wouldn't go incriminating myself knowingly.

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 04:13:51 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 06, 2014, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

The *something* is a JTminer. Can't wait for your review.

Why would ckolivas incriminate himself?

They asked me to review it I said I would not, as I am not in the business of reviewing hardware or supporting any manufacturer. They then offered to send me hardware, to which I said I would graciously accept it - to make it possible for them to submit their driver code for inclusion to master cgminer and have me help them. When the hardware arrives I will gladly validate that it exists, hashes etc, but I cannot vouch for the company's business in any other way since I am not a customer as such.

This may be relevant for you ckolivas: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s88.html

As there seems to be a demand for these Chinese miners based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 in Australia, I've referred this and other threads on similar machines to the Australian Federal Police for some clarification as to whether it would be lawful to import and be in possession of these machines.

More vendors means more competition which is always good for customers. However customers should be able to confidently make purchases in good faith that the machines are 100% legitimately manufactured and not have to potentially face legal sanctions later on after parting with their hard earned money.

repairguy

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 09:32:01 PM

Got it. It's a monstrosity with 3 external power supplies that I have to wire in myself... however even the power side needs to be screwed in with bare wires, and that's basically illegal to do in my country unless you're a certified A grade electrician... so I'm not sure exactly what to do with it yet Undecided

External power supplies?? Got a picture?

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Got it. It's a monstrosity with 3 external power supplies that I have to wire in myself... however even the power side needs to be screwed in with bare wires, and that's basically illegal to do in my country unless you're a certified A grade electrician... so I'm not sure exactly what to do with it yet Undecided

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Biffa on March 06, 2014, 03:18:11 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 01:48:15 PM

Quote from: Gator-hex on March 06, 2014, 12:54:18 PM

QuestionTime, for all we know Bitmine was out of cash and had dud chips, I know my first batch A1s I got won't come alive until 850mv, so how do we know they didn't do an IP deal with the chip manufacturer to produce a more efficient 2nd batch? Until someone gets a court judgment banning the import of Chinese A1's it's not a crime.

Don't need a court judgement for Customs / Border Protection to seize counterfeit or pirated goods. In some jurisdictions, importing and/or possession of such goods is considered a criminal offence.

On another note, potential customers should consider if there could be issues with their supply of the ASIC chip. GlobalFoundries and similar would be very hesitant to produce product where there is ambiguity regarding IP rights. Sure, the Chinese assemblers may be able to deliver initially, but when they run out of chips a lot of customers are going to be left holding the bag if they don't have their own supply of chips.

Bullshit someone would have to win a court judgement before that happened. Otherwise the same could just be done to Bitmine. They have to PROVE that there are fake/Stolen/counterfeit versions of their proprietary protected IP. He'll they have to prove they actually have any Ip claim First!

Until this happens its game on.

You're entitled to game with your money and miners. Others should weigh the risks when considering Chinese miners based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 and compare those risks with other legitimate miners with similar and sometimes better price and performance metrics, currently shipping in volume.

skyfromwell

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

Yes, CK.

There were two systems sent out. One is for you, and one is for me.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 04:13:51 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 06, 2014, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

The *something* is a JTminer. Can't wait for your review.

Why would ckolivas incriminate himself?

They asked me to review it I said I would not, as I am not in the business of reviewing hardware or supporting any manufacturer. They then offered to send me hardware, to which I said I would graciously accept it - to make it possible for them to submit their driver code for inclusion to master cgminer and have me help them. When the hardware arrives I will gladly validate that it exists, hashes etc, but I cannot vouch for the company's business in any other way since I am not a customer as such.

Apologies, I should have said verified that it exists, hashes and does what it says on the tin, I never meant to assume that you would do any more than that.

seeksilence

full member

Activity: 239

Merit: 250

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 04:13:51 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 06, 2014, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

The *something* is a JTminer. Can't wait for your review.

Why would ckolivas incriminate himself?

They asked me to review it I said I would not, as I am not in the business of reviewing hardware or supporting any manufacturer. They then offered to send me hardware, to which I said I would graciously accept it - to make it possible for them to submit their driver code for inclusion to master cgminer and have me help them. When the hardware arrives I will gladly validate that it exists, hashes etc, but I cannot vouch for the company's business in any other way since I am not a customer as such.

Oh, I am sorry for my guess for a review to involve you in the bad discussion. I just knew we have one sample unit sent to you. BTW, that guy with a new id is unreasonable with false assumption to make that statement.

Any words are welcome from you, thanks.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 06, 2014, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

The *something* is a JTminer. Can't wait for your review.

Why would ckolivas incriminate himself?

They asked me to review it I said I would not, as I am not in the business of reviewing hardware or supporting any manufacturer. They then offered to send me hardware, to which I said I would graciously accept it - to make it possible for them to submit their driver code for inclusion to master cgminer and have me help them. When the hardware arrives I will gladly validate that it exists, hashes etc, but I cannot vouch for the company's business in any other way since I am not a customer as such.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 01:48:15 PM

Quote from: Gator-hex on March 06, 2014, 12:54:18 PM

QuestionTime, for all we know Bitmine was out of cash and had dud chips, I know my first batch A1s I got won't come alive until 850mv, so how do we know they didn't do an IP deal with the chip manufacturer to produce a more efficient 2nd batch? Until someone gets a court judgment banning the import of Chinese A1's it's not a crime.

Don't need a court judgement for Customs / Border Protection to seize counterfeit or pirated goods. In some jurisdictions, importing and/or possession of such goods is considered a criminal offence.

On another note, potential customers should consider if there could be issues with their supply of the ASIC chip. GlobalFoundries and similar would be very hesitant to produce product where there is ambiguity regarding IP rights. Sure, the Chinese assemblers may be able to deliver initially, but when they run out of chips a lot of customers are going to be left holding the bag if they don't have their own supply of chips.

Bullshit someone would have to win a court judgement before that happened. Otherwise the same could just be done to Bitmine. They have to PROVE that there are fake/Stolen/counterfeit versions of their proprietary protected IP. He'll they have to prove they actually have any Ip claim First!

Until this happens its game on.

freebit13

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

I got Satoshi's avatar!

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 01:48:15 PM

Quote from: Gator-hex on March 06, 2014, 12:54:18 PM

QuestionTime, for all we know Bitmine was out of cash and had dud chips, I know my first batch A1s I got won't come alive until 850mv, so how do we know they didn't do an IP deal with the chip manufacturer to produce a more efficient 2nd batch? Until someone gets a court judgment banning the import of Chinese A1's it's not a crime.

Don't need a court judgement for Customs / Border Protection to seize counterfeit or pirated goods. In some jurisdictions, importing and/or possession of such goods is considered a criminal offence.

On another note, potential customers should consider if there could be issues with their supply of the ASIC chip. GlobalFoundries and similar would be very hesitant to produce product where there is ambiguity regarding IP rights. Sure, the Chinese assemblers may be able to deliver initially, but when they run out of chips a lot of customers are going to be left holding the bag if they don't have their own supply of chips.

Potential customers should also consider that Giorgio has still not answered the question... it's an easy one Wink

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Gator-hex on March 06, 2014, 12:54:18 PM

QuestionTime, for all we know Bitmine was out of cash and had dud chips, I know my first batch A1s I got won't come alive until 850mv, so how do we know they didn't do an IP deal with the chip manufacturer to produce a more efficient 2nd batch? Until someone gets a court judgment banning the import of Chinese A1's it's not a crime.

Don't need a court judgement for Customs / Border Protection to seize counterfeit or pirated goods. In some jurisdictions, importing and/or possession of such goods is considered a criminal offence.

On another note, potential customers should consider if there could be issues with their supply of the ASIC chip. GlobalFoundries and similar would be very hesitant to produce product where there is ambiguity regarding IP rights. Sure, the Chinese assemblers may be able to deliver initially, but when they run out of chips a lot of customers are going to be left holding the bag if they don't have their own supply of chips.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

Quote from: Gator-hex on March 06, 2014, 12:54:18 PM

QuestionTime, for all we know Bitmine was out of cash and had dud chips, I know my first batch A1s I got won't come alive until 850mv, so how do we know they didn't do an IP deal with the chip manufacturer to produce a more efficient 2nd batch? Until someone gets a court judgment banning the import of Chinese A1's it's not a crime.

Exactly! Plus they aren't excactly known for their honesty with their customers so far.

Gator-hex

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

QuestionTime, for all we know Bitmine was out of cash and had dud chips, I know the first batch A1s I got won't come alive until 850mv (Turbo mode power with only normal mode 25GH), so how do we know they didn't do an IP deal with the chip manufacturer to produce a more efficient 2nd batch? Until someone gets a court judgment banning the import of these Chinese A1's it's not a crime.

freebit13

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

I got Satoshi's avatar!

This is getting mighty interesting... Grin

P.S. yep, still waiting on that reply from Giorgio...

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

And you believe him?

Regardless, ck can't incriminate himself by reviewing a machine.

seeksilence

full member

Activity: 239

Merit: 250

It seems giorgiomassa from bitmine could not answer this simple question: Does Innosilicon have right to sell the chips or not?

Also I just found out giorgiomassa deleted his post here.

Seems I have to repeat this: There is no legal issue for JTminer.

Quote from: skyfromwell on March 04, 2014, 11:24:00 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

Giorgio，please clarify in legal term:

Does Innosilicon have right to sell the chips or not?

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Biffa on March 06, 2014, 12:33:48 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 06, 2014, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 05:19:07 AM

I have a tracking number, so *something* is being sent to me, for what it's worth.

The *something* is a JTminer. Can't wait for your review.

Why would ckolivas incriminate himself?

Why would he be incriminating himself?

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220