28nm ** 1T ** 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!! - page 9.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 07, 2014, 09:52:02 AM

Quote from: Biffa on March 07, 2014, 08:46:28 AM

Exactly, the web page with the "list of authorised resellers" is a load of old cack. Technobit is making miners using the chips, as are bitcoinultra, neither of which is listed as authorised resllers.

In fact the main authorised reseller are also being hauled over the coals because they are months late delivering as are bitmine themselves! Sounds alot like sour grapes to me.

The main point is bitmine themselves can't be trusted, they screwed all their preorder customers, and at the end of the day its just one persons (Giorgio) word against another, if bitmine are so sure that they are being ripped off then they should put some of those preorder millions where their mouth is and sue someone.

Until that happens, and they win, then all bets are off, and as a consumer I don't think it matters a whit what you buy, unless your an idiot and start shouting about all your kit all over the net no-one is going to know.

Technobit and others got their chips from zefir or direct from bitmine, nothing wrong there.

You cant have it both ways. They aren't on the page so according to you they can't be trusted.

Questiontime, please disclose your financial or professional interest in this matter. Are you employed by bitmine, or stand to gain financially from them in any way? Are you a customer of theirs? Perhaps if so you could let us know how you feel about the delays?

Are you a perhaps a legal professional? if so you should be declaring whether your advice has any legal merit or if you are just a keyboard warrior who is getting a backhander for badmouthing any opposition.

I just dont get why you are on a crusade regarding this, innocent until proven otherwise, its not like these chinese 1TH miner manufacturers are scammers they are providing hardware and it appears to work fine. All we have is you, whoever you are, kicking up a fuss, and Giorgio the CEO of Bitmine, whoever he is, and his words.

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: skyfromwell on March 07, 2014, 02:46:20 AM

I guess the reason THAT POST was removed because I posted it to the bosses of innosilicion, and they disputed the claim.

So you say.

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: JT Miner on March 07, 2014, 01:34:02 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 07, 2014, 12:57:14 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 07, 2014, 12:02:30 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 11:24:25 PM

Bitmine have already put up a list of authorised distributors: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. If the hardware has been originally acquired from an entity not on that list, it's most likely counterfeit or stolen.

Quote from: ?? on ??

You may assume all you want, but we have yet to see a statement from Innosilicon about this issue whereas bitmine have already made their position quite clear. On the current balance of probabilities it would appear these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 are indeed manufactured from stolen tech.

The message you keep quoting was removed which is why I said it raises a number of possibilities. While I appreciate your suspicions bringing to light these allegations, you are unable to conclusively say anything. I've made no assumptions, I just want a clear statement from bitmine regarding this manufacturer. The claims regarding stealing or counterfeiting are as you are no doubt aware very serious allegations and if they do not come forth with these allegations and stick to only non-specific cautions on their site, then I have to give JTminer the benefit of the doubt. So depending on how (and if) they respond, I will be getting the hardware working with an alternative power source and continue down the software path which is all I was originally interested in - or - I will hand the hardware over the AFP.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

The possibilities raised regarding the removal of that message should come second to conclusively identifying who removed the message.

Based on that quote from the CEO of bitmine (source of R&D funds and owner of chip IP) and the fact that Innosillicon (contracted design house with no foundry), JianTian, JT, Dragon, LA1THS, etc (assemblers) are not on the authorised distributors list, I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bitmine.

Bitmine can not be expected to issue a statement for every manufacturer that pops up with hardware with bitmine tech inside. I assume, therefore, that's why they've put up a list of authorised distributors of bitmine tech http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. However, further confirmation can only be a good thing. For the sake of everyone involved I wish you all the best in this endeavour and encourage you to publish the request for clarification from bitmine and any associated correspondence here in the public domain ideally in another thread.

"I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bit mine."

A few things i'd like to point out:

1) Bitmine said they were the owner of the ip inside the chip, it doesn't mean only Bitmine can sell the chip. IP inside doesn't mean a lot. you need a bunch of money to turn into a real chip.
2) Bitmine said they are the vendor of "Coincraft A1", and they own the trademark "CoinCraft" , so only Bitmine and his authorized channel can sell "CoinCraft" A1, right?
3) JTminer never said they use "CoinCraft" A1.
4) while JTMiner are day and night busy producing their 1000+ machines, someone are wasting time on nonsense issues
5) i happen to know, there is a video showing their mining facility. it's serious business, and large investment. bitcoins world has lot's scam. but this time, give some respect before you are 100% percent sure, and mind your language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86hZGZAMUHQ‍

1) If the owner of the chip design has not given permission to use the design, using the design is corporate theft, period.
2), 3), 4) ... grow up.
5) So long as that equipment stays in China I don't foresee any short-term problems with the operation

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Biffa on March 07, 2014, 08:46:28 AM

Exactly, the web page with the "list of authorised resellers" is a load of old cack. Technobit is making miners using the chips, as are bitcoinultra, neither of which is listed as authorised resllers.

In fact the main authorised reseller are also being hauled over the coals because they are months late delivering as are bitmine themselves! Sounds alot like sour grapes to me.

The main point is bitmine themselves can't be trusted, they screwed all their preorder customers, and at the end of the day its just one persons (Giorgio) word against another, if bitmine are so sure that they are being ripped off then they should put some of those preorder millions where their mouth is and sue someone.

Until that happens, and they win, then all bets are off, and as a consumer I don't think it matters a whit what you buy, unless your an idiot and start shouting about all your kit all over the net no-one is going to know.

Technobit and others got their chips from zefir or direct from bitmine, nothing wrong there.

Biffa

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 1220

Exactly, the web page with the "list of authorised resellers" is a load of old cack. Technobit is making miners using the chips, as are bitcoinultra, neither of which is listed as authorised resllers.

In fact the main authorised reseller are also being hauled over the coals because they are months late delivering as are bitmine themselves! Sounds alot like sour grapes to me.

The main point is bitmine themselves can't be trusted, they screwed all their preorder customers, and at the end of the day its just one persons (Giorgio) word against another, if bitmine are so sure that they are being ripped off then they should put some of those preorder millions where their mouth is and sue someone.

Until that happens, and they win, then all bets are off, and as a consumer I don't think it matters a whit what you buy, unless your an idiot and start shouting about all your kit all over the net no-one is going to know.

freebit13

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

I got Satoshi's avatar!

I think he's slowly realized that he no longer has that argument since Giorgio never replied and deleted his post and it was mentioned that it was posted to Innosilicon... clearly now he's moved on to the electrical regulations angle.

Don't worry there are a lot of scam trolls on these forums that like to think of themselves as scam exposers, trying to rack up post counts, hoping to be the next guy who discovered a scam, so they can feel important. It's been clear since the beginning that he has an axe to grind, but absolutely no sound proof, only assumptions and allegations and he never bothered to contact anyone who would actually know about it and back him up.

sikke

sr. member

Activity: 504

Merit: 250

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 07, 2014, 12:57:14 AM

The possibilities raised regarding the removal of that message should come second to conclusively identifying who removed the message.

Based on that quote from the CEO of bitmine (source of R&D funds and owner of chip IP) and the fact that Innosillicon (contracted design house with no foundry), JianTian, JT, Dragon, LA1THS, etc (assemblers) are not on the authorised distributors list, I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bitmine.

Bitmine can not be expected to issue a statement for every manufacturer that pops up with hardware with bitmine tech inside. I assume, therefore, that's why they've put up a list of authorised distributors of bitmine tech http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. However, further confirmation can only be a good thing. For the sake of everyone involved I wish you all the best in this endeavour and encourage you to publish the request for clarification from bitmine and any associated correspondence here in the public domain ideally in another thread.

-1

FUD, your somekind of desperate Agent for Bitmain ?
All you've done after registering to these forums are posting few negative things to bitmaintopic + started to post this FUD of Bitmain vs. Innosilicon all over the forums.

Your point is made please stop it. You dont bring anything new. Fact is Bitmaintech has failed to keep full sales rights to the Chip with Innosilicon. For reasons we dont know, Innosilicon has right to sell the Chip aswell. Bitmain cannot stop them selling the chip as of now. Eaven company in Finland has purhaced these chips now and are making their own blades and miners. I know you dont know what Engineers in Finland has made over the past years... Being all the way in Australia.

Quote from: JT Miner on March 07, 2014, 01:34:02 AM

A few things i'd like to point out:

1) Bitmine said they were the owner of the ip inside the chip, it doesn't mean only Bitmine can sell the chip. IP inside doesn't mean a lot. you need a bunch of money to turn into a real chip.
2) Bitmine said they are the vendor of "Coincraft A1", and they own the trademark "CoinCraft" , so only Bitmine and his authorized channel can sell "CoinCraft" A1, right?
3) JTminer never said they use "CoinCraft" A1.
4) while JTMiner are day and night busy producing their 1000+ machines, someone are wasting time on nonsense issues
5) i happen to know, there is a video showing their mining facility. it's serious business, and large investment. bitcoins world has lot's scam. but this time, give some respect before you are 100% percent sure, and mind your language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86hZGZAMUHQ‍

+1
I wish all the best luck for you. War has started, Innosilicon has sold these Chips to +10 companys now. Your design is good, but dont take too long to pass it in the market now. There will be others. Your design suits well for hosting premises. Shocked

huge farms...

What matters
1) $
2) GH/s
3) w/hour
4) no pre-order bullshit, Ship from stock to get sales.

Who makes 1-4 best, gets the market next from Antminers. These chips have potential.. to be killer atm.

silver71

member

Activity: 101

Merit: 10

no avatar for now

So that's why so much smog above Shanghai sky is all about

They run a handfull of coal-powered termoelectric powerplants just for this data-centar

CroverNo01

sr. member

Activity: 588

Merit: 269

Quote from: JT Miner on March 07, 2014, 01:34:02 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 07, 2014, 12:57:14 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 07, 2014, 12:02:30 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 11:24:25 PM

Bitmine have already put up a list of authorised distributors: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. If the hardware has been originally acquired from an entity not on that list, it's most likely counterfeit or stolen.

Quote from: ?? on ??

You may assume all you want, but we have yet to see a statement from Innosilicon about this issue whereas bitmine have already made their position quite clear. On the current balance of probabilities it would appear these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 are indeed manufactured from stolen tech.

The message you keep quoting was removed which is why I said it raises a number of possibilities. While I appreciate your suspicions bringing to light these allegations, you are unable to conclusively say anything. I've made no assumptions, I just want a clear statement from bitmine regarding this manufacturer. The claims regarding stealing or counterfeiting are as you are no doubt aware very serious allegations and if they do not come forth with these allegations and stick to only non-specific cautions on their site, then I have to give JTminer the benefit of the doubt. So depending on how (and if) they respond, I will be getting the hardware working with an alternative power source and continue down the software path which is all I was originally interested in - or - I will hand the hardware over the AFP.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

The possibilities raised regarding the removal of that message should come second to conclusively identifying who removed the message.

Based on that quote from the CEO of bitmine (source of R&D funds and owner of chip IP) and the fact that Innosillicon (contracted design house with no foundry), JianTian, JT, Dragon, LA1THS, etc (assemblers) are not on the authorised distributors list, I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bitmine.

Bitmine can not be expected to issue a statement for every manufacturer that pops up with hardware with bitmine tech inside. I assume, therefore, that's why they've put up a list of authorised distributors of bitmine tech http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. However, further confirmation can only be a good thing. For the sake of everyone involved I wish you all the best in this endeavour and encourage you to publish the request for clarification from bitmine and any associated correspondence here in the public domain ideally in another thread.

"I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bit mine."

A few things i'd like to point out:

1) Bitmine said they were the owner of the ip inside the chip, it doesn't mean only Bitmine can sell the chip. IP inside doesn't mean a lot. you need a bunch of money to turn into a real chip.
2) Bitmine said they are the vendor of "Coincraft A1", and they own the trademark "CoinCraft" , so only Bitmine and his authorized channel can sell "CoinCraft" A1, right?
3) JTminer never said they use "CoinCraft" A1.
4) while JTMiner are day and night busy producing their 1000+ machines, someone are wasting time on nonsense issues
5) i happen to know, there is a video showing their mining facility. it's serious business, and large investment. bitcoins world has lot's scam. but this time, give some respect before you are 100% percent sure, and mind your language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86hZGZAMUHQ‍

Loving the video must be so much TH/s in that data center Tongue

JT Miner

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: ElGabo on March 07, 2014, 02:24:03 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 10:02:36 PM

Quote from: repairguy on March 06, 2014, 09:35:37 PM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 09:32:01 PM

Got it. It's a monstrosity with 3 external power supplies that I have to wire in myself... however even the power side needs to be screwed in with bare wires, and that's basically illegal to do in my country unless you're a certified A grade electrician... so I'm not sure exactly what to do with it yet Undecided

External power supplies?? Got a picture?

It's as per the opening post, but with one extra power supply (presumably a spare/redundancy). Here's some photos, including a baseball cap for size comparison:

http://ck.kolivas.org/pictures/JTMiner/

Sorry for off but Kiss

STI.

1)extra power supply can give you the ability to over clock. The boards are equipped with 32+A current capacity power supply per chip:), in 25G/s mode, it only consume 20A per chip. so it has room to do the over clock.

2)Linear Tech power supply + careful design gives the ripple only at 20mv:), it will stabilize chips using the higher clock without too much HW error.

skyfromwell

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I guess the reason THAT POST was removed because I posted it to the bosses of innosilicion, and they disputed the claim.

Powell

sr. member

Activity: 486

Merit: 262

rm -rf stupidity

I spy some IBM Storage (xseries line from quick glimpse) looks older but still thumbs up. HP stuff... bleh

ElGabo

hero member

Activity: 635

Merit: 500

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 10:02:36 PM

Quote from: repairguy on March 06, 2014, 09:35:37 PM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 09:32:01 PM

Got it. It's a monstrosity with 3 external power supplies that I have to wire in myself... however even the power side needs to be screwed in with bare wires, and that's basically illegal to do in my country unless you're a certified A grade electrician... so I'm not sure exactly what to do with it yet Undecided

External power supplies?? Got a picture?

It's as per the opening post, but with one extra power supply (presumably a spare/redundancy). Here's some photos, including a baseball cap for size comparison:

http://ck.kolivas.org/pictures/JTMiner/

Sorry for off but Kiss

STI.

JT Miner

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 07, 2014, 12:57:14 AM

Quote from: -ck on March 07, 2014, 12:02:30 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 11:24:25 PM

Bitmine have already put up a list of authorised distributors: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. If the hardware has been originally acquired from an entity not on that list, it's most likely counterfeit or stolen.

Quote from: ?? on ??

You may assume all you want, but we have yet to see a statement from Innosilicon about this issue whereas bitmine have already made their position quite clear. On the current balance of probabilities it would appear these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 are indeed manufactured from stolen tech.

The message you keep quoting was removed which is why I said it raises a number of possibilities. While I appreciate your suspicions bringing to light these allegations, you are unable to conclusively say anything. I've made no assumptions, I just want a clear statement from bitmine regarding this manufacturer. The claims regarding stealing or counterfeiting are as you are no doubt aware very serious allegations and if they do not come forth with these allegations and stick to only non-specific cautions on their site, then I have to give JTminer the benefit of the doubt. So depending on how (and if) they respond, I will be getting the hardware working with an alternative power source and continue down the software path which is all I was originally interested in - or - I will hand the hardware over the AFP.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

The possibilities raised regarding the removal of that message should come second to conclusively identifying who removed the message.

Based on that quote from the CEO of bitmine (source of R&D funds and owner of chip IP) and the fact that Innosillicon (contracted design house with no foundry), JianTian, JT, Dragon, LA1THS, etc (assemblers) are not on the authorised distributors list, I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bitmine.

Bitmine can not be expected to issue a statement for every manufacturer that pops up with hardware with bitmine tech inside. I assume, therefore, that's why they've put up a list of authorised distributors of bitmine tech http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. However, further confirmation can only be a good thing. For the sake of everyone involved I wish you all the best in this endeavour and encourage you to publish the request for clarification from bitmine and any associated correspondence here in the public domain ideally in another thread.

"I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bit mine."

A few things i'd like to point out:

1) Bitmine said they were the owner of the ip inside the chip, it doesn't mean only Bitmine can sell the chip. IP inside doesn't mean a lot. you need a bunch of money to turn into a real chip.
2) Bitmine said they are the vendor of "Coincraft A1", and they own the trademark "CoinCraft" , so only Bitmine and his authorized channel can sell "CoinCraft" A1, right?
3) JTminer never said they use "CoinCraft" A1.
4) while JTMiner are day and night busy producing their 1000+ machines, someone are wasting time on nonsense issues
5) i happen to know, there is a video showing their mining facility. it's serious business, and large investment. bitcoins world has lot's scam. but this time, give some respect before you are 100% percent sure, and mind your language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86hZGZAMUHQ‍

repairguy

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 10:02:36 PM

Quote from: repairguy on March 06, 2014, 09:35:37 PM

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 09:32:01 PM

Got it. It's a monstrosity with 3 external power supplies that I have to wire in myself... however even the power side needs to be screwed in with bare wires, and that's basically illegal to do in my country unless you're a certified A grade electrician... so I'm not sure exactly what to do with it yet Undecided

External power supplies?? Got a picture?

It's as per the opening post, but with one extra power supply (presumably a spare/redundancy). Here's some photos, including a baseball cap for size comparison:

http://ck.kolivas.org/pictures/JTMiner/

Thanks, They included some high end bench supplies with that machine. Nice.

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: -ck on March 07, 2014, 12:02:30 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 11:24:25 PM

Bitmine have already put up a list of authorised distributors: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. If the hardware has been originally acquired from an entity not on that list, it's most likely counterfeit or stolen.

Quote from: ?? on ??

You may assume all you want, but we have yet to see a statement from Innosilicon about this issue whereas bitmine have already made their position quite clear. On the current balance of probabilities it would appear these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 are indeed manufactured from stolen tech.

The message you keep quoting was removed which is why I said it raises a number of possibilities. While I appreciate your suspicions bringing to light these allegations, you are unable to conclusively say anything. I've made no assumptions, I just want a clear statement from bitmine regarding this manufacturer. The claims regarding stealing or counterfeiting are as you are no doubt aware very serious allegations and if they do not come forth with these allegations and stick to only non-specific cautions on their site, then I have to give JTminer the benefit of the doubt. So depending on how (and if) they respond, I will be getting the hardware working with an alternative power source and continue down the software path which is all I was originally interested in - or - I will hand the hardware over the AFP.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

The possibilities raised regarding the removal of that message should come second to conclusively identifying who removed the message.

Based on that quote from the CEO of bitmine (source of R&D funds and owner of chip IP) and the fact that Innosillicon (contracted design house with no foundry), JianTian, JT, Dragon, LA1THS, etc (assemblers) are not on the authorised distributors list, I can conclusively say that these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 chip have not been manufactured from hardware legitimately obtained from the owners of the chip IP, bitmine.

Bitmine can not be expected to issue a statement for every manufacturer that pops up with hardware with bitmine tech inside. I assume, therefore, that's why they've put up a list of authorised distributors of bitmine tech http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. However, further confirmation can only be a good thing. For the sake of everyone involved I wish you all the best in this endeavour and encourage you to publish the request for clarification from bitmine and any associated correspondence here in the public domain ideally in another thread.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 06, 2014, 11:24:25 PM

Bitmine have already put up a list of authorised distributors: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. If the hardware has been originally acquired from an entity not on that list, it's most likely counterfeit or stolen.

Quote from: ?? on ??

You may assume all you want, but we have yet to see a statement from Innosilicon about this issue whereas bitmine have already made their position quite clear. On the current balance of probabilities it would appear these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 are indeed manufactured from stolen tech.

The message you keep quoting was removed which is why I said it raises a number of possibilities. While I appreciate your suspicions bringing to light these allegations, you are unable to conclusively say anything. I've made no assumptions, I just want a clear statement from bitmine regarding this manufacturer. The claims regarding stealing or counterfeiting are as you are no doubt aware very serious allegations and if they do not come forth with these allegations and stick to only non-specific cautions on their site, then I have to give JTminer the benefit of the doubt. So depending on how (and if) they respond, I will be getting the hardware working with an alternative power source and continue down the software path which is all I was originally interested in - or - I will hand the hardware over the AFP.

seeksilence

full member

Activity: 239

Merit: 250

@QuestionTime: Please show some respect to ckolivas and put your questions on hold. Thanks.

QuestionTime

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: -ck on March 06, 2014, 10:58:45 PM

Put the discussion on hold for the time being. I'm asking bitmine directly for I certainly do not want to be put in the middle of such controversy. I can certainly see a number of possibilities for how it has ended in this stalemate, and it is not clear to me that there is incontrovertible evidence saying that JT produced these illegally, nor that any stealing was involved. A statement from bitmine is the only thing that can clear this up one way or another. If bitmine do not respond then I have to assume Innosilicon do indeed have the right to produce exact copies and sell these chips.

Bitmine have already put up a list of authorised distributors: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204. If the hardware has been originally acquired from an entity not on that list, it's most likely counterfeit or stolen.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 02, 2014, 07:24:20 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

You may assume all you want, but we have yet to see a statement from Innosilicon about this issue whereas bitmine have already made their position quite clear. On the current balance of probabilities it would appear these Chinese machines based on the 28nm CoinCraft A1 are indeed manufactured from stolen tech.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Put the discussion on hold for the time being. I'm asking bitmine directly for I certainly do not want to be put in the middle of such controversy. I can easily see a number of possibilities for how it has ended in this stalemate, and it is not clear to me that there is incontrovertible evidence saying that JT produced these illegally, nor that any stealing was involved. A statement from bitmine is the only thing that can clear this up one way or another. If bitmine do not respond then I have to assume Innosilicon do indeed have the right to produce exact copies and sell these chips.

Topic: 28nm ** 1T ** 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!! - page 9. (Read 26317 times)

Topic: 28nm 1T 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!! - page 9. (Read 26317 times)