Sour grapes. LOL.
I don't sell my system for $3K. Period.
I don't sell my system for $3K. Period.
You don't sell it for $6,000 either because you're priced out of the market.
Topic: 28nm ** 1T ** 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!! - page 6. (Read 26259 times)
You don't sell it for $6,000 either because you're priced out of the market.
I have been in contact with skyfromwell and seeksilence for a few weeks now.
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
I think thats already been resolved.
I've had official confirmation from bitmine directly that, while they do have ongoing dispute with a Chinese company, that I am free to develop for this device without fear of legal recourse provided the driver does not use the bitmine or coincraft name to reference any aspect of these devices or drivers. They have also said they will only release an official statement once the issue has been resolved. While this more or less confirms my own suspicions with respect to what's going on, I don't feel the need to speculate further on the matter and will return to concentrate purely on the software matters irrespective of what other people have to say on the issue.
I have been in contact with skyfromwell and seeksilence for a few weeks now.
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
Sour grapes. LOL.
I don't sell my system for $3K. Period.
I have been in contact with skyfromwell and seeksilence for a few weeks now.
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
shut down now and move to San Jose.
My system in the home finally was up!
So let me do a review here and from an objective QA view.
1. First of all, I totally understand CK's confusion. Because I used to be an electrician in US, and I have no problems to hook up many things.
But when I first saw the system with the cables, I am kind of in the blank too. LOL.
So if we ship to home miners instead of mining facilities, then we need to improve on this:
a. Should have no need to hook the system by miners themselves. Even though it is simple as Black (V+), Red (V-). We need to make a KNC style socket for this, so miners can just simply plug in.
b. Need a part check list. Because the one I got missing two power cables and also one screw in the power unit is missing (and it is TOUGH to find a replace one in USA, can you believe?). So a small package with few extra screws will be fine.
then others are pretty cool.
1. Plug in the cable then DHCP will assign an IP to the miner. But you need to check your DHCP server to see which IP it got. If you in a link sys, you probably need to go to DHCP client table to find out what IP you got. So we need to improve on this.
2. Then change your bit coin address in run.sh.
3. sudo ./run.sh &
The system is running and on good shape.
About noise, it has some noise but not as noise as your kitchen fan.
In the same room you can hear as a PC making noise, but close the door, you barely hear anything.
I put a Youtube video for you to watch.
And also the mining link (it will take down with 1 hour and put it up in my San Jose office.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GWZaPfPqNA
This is for mining.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1HkrbUqFNk998DBJFxuKaektKjPT1LHrLt
So let me do a review here and from an objective QA view.
1. First of all, I totally understand CK's confusion. Because I used to be an electrician in US, and I have no problems to hook up many things.
But when I first saw the system with the cables, I am kind of in the blank too. LOL.
So if we ship to home miners instead of mining facilities, then we need to improve on this:
a. Should have no need to hook the system by miners themselves. Even though it is simple as Black (V+), Red (V-). We need to make a KNC style socket for this, so miners can just simply plug in.
b. Need a part check list. Because the one I got missing two power cables and also one screw in the power unit is missing (and it is TOUGH to find a replace one in USA, can you believe?). So a small package with few extra screws will be fine.
then others are pretty cool.
1. Plug in the cable then DHCP will assign an IP to the miner. But you need to check your DHCP server to see which IP it got. If you in a link sys, you probably need to go to DHCP client table to find out what IP you got. So we need to improve on this.
2. Then change your bit coin address in run.sh.
3. sudo ./run.sh &
The system is running and on good shape.
About noise, it has some noise but not as noise as your kitchen fan.
In the same room you can hear as a PC making noise, but close the door, you barely hear anything.
I put a Youtube video for you to watch.
And also the mining link (it will take down with 1 hour and put it up in my San Jose office.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GWZaPfPqNA
This is for mining.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1HkrbUqFNk998DBJFxuKaektKjPT1LHrLt
Are you going to review their miner at the end? Or you will wait until legal issues are resolved. I saw your pictures but that was all, I am interested to see your review though
I'm waiting for someone here to sort out the power supply issues for me and I'll probably get it mining tomorrow, followed by a brief review. There are no legal issues affecting me, nor have I signed any agreement (In fact I refuse to be involved in any projects that require me to sign an NDA).Thank you!
Are you going to review their miner at the end? Or you will wait until legal issues are resolved. I saw your pictures but that was all, I am interested to see your review though
I'm waiting for someone here to sort out the power supply issues for me and I'll probably get it mining tomorrow, followed by a brief review. There are no legal issues affecting me, nor have I signed any agreement (In fact I refuse to be involved in any projects that require me to sign an NDA). Put the discussion on hold for the time being. I'm asking bitmine directly for I certainly do not want to be put in the middle of such controversy. I can easily see a number of possibilities for how it has ended in this stalemate, and it is not clear to me that there is incontrovertible evidence saying that JT produced these illegally, nor that any stealing was involved. A statement from bitmine is the only thing that can clear this up one way or another. If bitmine do not respond then I have to assume Innosilicon do indeed have the right to produce exact copies and sell these chips.
I've had official confirmation from bitmine directly that, while they do have ongoing dispute with a Chinese company, that I am free to develop for this device without fear of legal recourse provided the driver does not use the bitmine or coincraft name to reference any aspect of these devices or drivers. They have also said they will only release an official statement once the issue has been resolved. While this more or less confirms my own suspicions with respect to what's going on, I don't feel the need to speculate further on the matter and will return to concentrate purely on the software matters irrespective of what other people have to say on the issue. Are you going to review their miner at the end? Or you will wait until legal issues are resolved. I saw your pictures but that was all, I am interested to see your review though
Put the discussion on hold for the time being. I'm asking bitmine directly for I certainly do not want to be put in the middle of such controversy. I can easily see a number of possibilities for how it has ended in this stalemate, and it is not clear to me that there is incontrovertible evidence saying that JT produced these illegally, nor that any stealing was involved. A statement from bitmine is the only thing that can clear this up one way or another. If bitmine do not respond then I have to assume Innosilicon do indeed have the right to produce exact copies and sell these chips.
I've had official confirmation from bitmine directly that, while they do have ongoing dispute with a Chinese company, that I am free to develop for this device without fear of legal recourse provided the driver does not use the bitmine or coincraft name to reference any aspect of these devices or drivers. They have also said they will only release an official statement once the issue has been resolved. While this more or less confirms my own suspicions with respect to what's going on, I don't feel the need to speculate further on the matter and will return to concentrate purely on the software matters irrespective of what other people have to say on the issue.
OMG ... I inadvertently fed the troll!
I think the that the typical consumer is really only going to care about:
1) When can I get it?
2) How much does it cost?
3) Will it do what I need it to?
1) When can I get it?
2) How much does it cost?
3) Will it do what I need it to?
4) Will my unit perform as well as the demo unit
5) Will my order be fulfilled before they run out of stolen chips
6) Will I get in trouble with the police by having this unit, if it makes it past customs
7) Will I need to justify to the police why my other mining hardware are legitimate and should not be seized
But PLEASE distinguish different systems.
The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite.
The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite.
Fair point and thank you for the correction; I'm not fully aware of the competitive differences of the two different systems. It might be informative and helpful to possibly post a brief YouTube video recording the noise your particular product creates.
I have a system just delivered from Shanghai to my home (Berkeley area). But I am in Yuba City now, and will get home Sunday.
I need to get system up and hear the noise by myself (and also do an over-clock), then I will report to you and others. Thanks for understanding.
But PLEASE distinguish different systems.
The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite.
The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite.
Fair point and thank you for the correction; I'm not fully aware of the competitive differences of the two different systems. It might be informative and helpful to possibly post a brief YouTube video recording the noise your particular product creates.
3000 is the sweet spot for device.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking myself with the 20nm KNC stuff coming online in the (hopefully) not-too-distant-future.
Once these 1THs miners hit near $3k USD, I'll consider ordering one. As tempting as it is to pick one up for $5k, really having trouble pulling the trigger until we hear more reports from the field.
The fact that they apparently sound like jet engines is a huge negative for me; the Antminers are "just right" in terms of db output IMO.
Very nice to see higher horsepower system becoming available in relatively short order.
Xian01,
I totally agree with you on the price.
But remember the A1 chips just come up not too long ago, and as system maker, the profit margin is pretty thin. To hit your ideal price, there is the need for chip makers to drop the price at least by half.
But PLEASE distinguish different systems.
The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite.
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKWgODgb.jpg&t=537&c=eQyZI8paYKMSVA
This is my system.
3000 is the sweet spot for device.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking myself with the 20nm KNC stuff coming online in the (hopefully) not-too-distant-future.
Once these 1THs miners hit near $3k USD, I'll consider ordering one. As tempting as it is to pick one up for $5k, really having trouble pulling the trigger until we hear more reports from the field.
The fact that they apparently sound like jet engines is a huge negative for me; the Antminers are "just right" in terms of db output IMO.
Very nice to see higher horsepower system becoming available in relatively short order.
Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?
I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.
You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.
Your product doesn't have any advantage over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?
I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.
You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.
Your product doesn't have any advantage over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?
It is simple.
Our first 1300 systems are being purchased by the mining facility. You can see the video on Youtube posted here. That is why we act late for sell publicly. And the website stuff.
Also the price is no longer 8K, but around 5.5K now.
About the 19999 RMB, that is a market trick, the true story is whatever system you bought from them, they will mine freely for first 10 days before ship to you. But even that, they barely make even at that price level (even considering cheap components).
But why they do that?
1. They want to kill all competitors off.
2. If they can do that, they will be the only A1 system maker in China so they can go back to push the chip prices down.
But so far, they didn't sell too much, and chip makers are not back down. So every interesting ahead...
You claimed that your competitors use cheap components and that it is a marketing trick to sell at 19999 yuan with losses, even if they use the miners to mine for 10 days before they sending it out they will not break even.
The only purpose is to kill competitors and become the only A1 system maker in China, which I find strange, because all your competitors lowers the prices.
So they are killing each others, so that 1 company will left to be profitable.
This story is really hard to believe.
Even using inexpensive components, the production costs and other costs will not exceed 19999 yuan.
5 Antminers use more parts than 1 miners from your competitors, and BITMAIN don't really use cheap parts.
Beside that, BITMAIN has to pay 5 times shipping fees to ship out 1 Terahash of 5 OC 200 GH/s Antminers and still be able to make profit.
BITMAIN can still lower their prices further and still be profitable.
To be honest, I believe you disagree with your competitors to lower their prices to stay competitive and still be profitable.
You want to sell your product at a PREMIUM.
I think this will not work anymore, you have way too many competition now.
The BFL, AVALON and Hashlast era is long gone.
People won't be easy to be fooled for a second or third time.
You see the knock offs from different sellers, but produced by one company. And that company is well known in China by the way they are doing business.
Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?
I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.
You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.
Your product doesn't have any advantage over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?
I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.
You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.
Your product doesn't have any advantage over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?
It is simple.
Our first 1300 systems are being purchased by the mining facility. You can see the video on Youtube posted here. That is why we act late for sell publicly. And the website stuff.
Also the price is no longer 8K, but around 5.5K now.
About the 19999 RMB, that is a market trick, the true story is whatever system you bought from them, they will mine freely for first 10 days before ship to you. But even that, they barely make even at that price level (even considering cheap components).
But why they do that?
1. They want to kill all competitors off.
2. If they can do that, they will be the only A1 system maker in China so they can go back to push the chip prices down.
But so far, they didn't sell too much, and chip makers are not back down. So every interesting ahead...
You claimed that your competitors use cheap components and that it is a marketing trick to sell at 19999 yuan with losses, even if they use the miners to mine for 10 days before they sending it out they will not break even.
The only purpose is to kill competitors and become the only A1 system maker in China, which I find strange, because all your competitors lowers the prices.
So they are killing each others, so that 1 company will left to be profitable.
This story is really hard to believe.
Even using inexpensive components, the production costs and other costs will not exceed 19999 yuan.
5 Antminers use more parts than 1 miners from your competitors, and BITMAIN don't really use cheap parts.
Beside that, BITMAIN has to pay 5 times shipping fees to ship out 1 Terahash of 5 OC 200 GH/s Antminers and still be able to make profit.
BITMAIN can still lower their prices further and still be profitable.
To be honest, I believe you disagree with your competitors to lower their prices to stay competitive and still be profitable.
You want to sell your product at a PREMIUM.
I think this will not work anymore, you have way too many competition now.
The BFL, AVALON and Hashlast era is long gone.
People won't be easy to be fooled for a second or third time.
Yup, love all those greedy asic producers compete each others, maybe miners that will roi will finally hit market once again...
That's good news about the 28 nm chips. In the next 3 months we should see the fall of the antminer and the rise of the cheap 28 nm miners. By end of the year everything will be 28 nm or smaller and most miners will have 2+ th running.
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