65 nm Chips - [BFL ACCEPTED 100% ESCROW by John K.] - Group Buy #1 - Kernel32 - page 9.

KS

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Quote from: GalaxyASIC on June 03, 2013, 02:57:28 AM

Where did you see that "BFL needs the community to produce a mining board or they won't sell ... a single chip." ?

Stands to reason, they're not selling boards, so *someone* needs to make them. They can't sell chips if there aren't any boards to plug them in. Unless you're in the collector keychain business.

GalaxyASIC

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Where did you see that "BFL needs the community to produce a mining board or they won't sell ... a single chip." ?

Kernel32

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If you can't do something smart,do something right

Quote from: smoothie on June 02, 2013, 06:08:26 PM

Quote from: Kernel32 on June 02, 2013, 05:37:28 PM

EDIT: Remember BFL needs the community to produce a mining board or they won't sell ... a single chip.

Perhaps that is what they are hoping?

lol "let's let the community come up with the board since we can't".

It seems that is the strategy of BFL. Or some combination of that and desire to make a quick buck plus the fact that BitSyncom (Avalon) sells they'r chips in vast quantities (dominates the market previously owned by butterflies).

They need the board and they need the costumers. What is there for us of it? Let's see.

Quote from: PuertoLibre on June 02, 2013, 04:20:22 PM

Quote from: Kernel32 on June 02, 2013, 02:55:25 PM

Quote from: John (John K.) on June 02, 2013, 01:48:25 PM

I might be open to do this if there was a set period (say 1 month?) where BFL will have to release more proof on the issue like reference designs/chip examples etc, and a definite period where the escrow get released back to the buyers if BFL still does not ship. (say 100 days like they promised?)

Anyhow, I'm still waiting and watching this. I don't want people to get their coins tied up too long (and me increasing my risks of holding the coins even longer) if BFL keeps delaying. If anyone has a better idea of what's going on I'm all ears.

Thank you for taking the time John.

I would maybe also add a condition of at least one capable board developer involved before any funds are collected. IF there is a reason to do so anyway.

My God,

You are doing everything right! What the hell is wrong with all the other threads that they aren't seemingly even doing half of what you are doing...

I am gonna guess you are the "go to" place for the first BFL batch order. I don't see it happening in the other threads. (Well except maybe with MrTeal.)

Thank you for the support PuertoLibre.

The word is out there. BFL's turn now.

They can't stop the signal.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: Kernel32 on June 02, 2013, 05:37:28 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on June 02, 2013, 05:35:55 PM

I'd call tying up one's money for something which is inflexible and poorly implemented and likely to be obsolete by the time it is delivered even if a miracle happened and it was delivered on time an Epic fail.

I agree with you. We don't want that to happen. (BFL costumers already know what you are talking about.)

EDIT: Remember BFL needs the community to produce a mining board or they won't sell ... a single chip.

Perhaps that is what they are hoping?

lol "let's let the community come up with the board since we can't".

Kernel32

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Activity: 85

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If you can't do something smart,do something right

Quote from: tvbcof on June 02, 2013, 05:35:55 PM

I'd call tying up one's money for something which is inflexible and poorly implemented and likely to be obsolete by the time it is delivered even if a miracle happened and it was delivered on time an Epic fail.

I agree with you. We don't want that to happen. (BFL costumers already know what you are talking about.)

EDIT: Remember BFL needs the community to produce a mining board or they won't sell ... a single chip.

tvbcof

legendary

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Quote from: ?? on ??

...
90% our conditions will not be met. We had the balls to argue with BFL. It could prevent somebody else getting scammed. >> I call that a win Wink

9,9% we make it happen >> Epic win.
0,1% we get scammed by John K., THE government or UFOs >> Epic fail.

I'd call tying up one's money for something which is inflexible and poorly implemented and likely to be obsolete by the time it is delivered even if a miracle happened and it was delivered on time an Epic fail.

Kernel32

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

If you can't do something smart,do something right

Quote from: Bicknellski on June 02, 2013, 03:56:03 PM

Just on principle. Why would any buy a BFL product? Simply a NO! Let them rot. This is how you repay them for all the lies and BS. You simply don't buy any more of their products. There is no win win here. Let them rot on the vine that is what they deserve. Let them fulfill their contractual obligations and everyone can move on to be better products coming out right now.

A lot of people let BFL literally take they'r money away without any hard guarantees (inc. myself). Not every company would take advantage of those people. BFL did. Its about the managers in charge of the company and they'r decisions.

There is a theory, that only scammable people can be scammed. This is not completely true, but you can keep the chances to a minimum.

I'm trying to do real business where costumer has guarantees and get what was agreed on and paid for. That is completely new attitude.

We are not under stress nor vision of becoming filthy rich tomorrow (still would be OK if that is the case). Let's do it right this time.

90% our conditions will not be met. We had the balls to argue with butterflies. It could prevent somebody else getting scammed. >> I call that a win
9,9% we make it happen >> Epic win.
0,1% we get scammed by John K., THE government, board manufacturer or UFOs >> Epic fail.

tvbcof

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Quote from: PuertoLibre on June 02, 2013, 04:29:21 PM

...
He recently admitted on the BFL forums that they missed their power numbers. Plainly stated in no uncertain terms. The only question left is when the Mods and Admins are going to carry out the penalty. It's pretty black and white at this point.

Don't hold your breath.

BFL is to bitcointalk.org as HSBC is the the US justice dept.

Not only bitcointalk.org, but the Bitcoin Foundation who provided BFL with a scamming platform at the 2013 conference. Now if only they could put some resource into actually addressing frauds, thefts, and scams, that would be great. Until then, they are pretty much as useless as tits on a boar hog in my opinion.

edit: quoting.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: KGambler on June 02, 2013, 04:01:23 PM

My favorite BFL low-life scam tactic was the fake 1,000 BTC charity donation "gaurantee".

I recall that, it really got under my skin.

Whats worse was BFL_Josh (Inaba) was letting people fight it out "over which charity" would be getting the winnings if they lost the bet.

All vapor, no substance.

He recently admitted on the BFL forums that they missed their power numbers. Plainly stated in no uncertain terms. The only question left is when the Mods and Admins are going to carry out the penalty. It's pretty black and white at this point.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 02, 2013, 03:07:15 PM

Look, one huuuge issue is the lead time in developing a valid PCB and working prototype, seeing as BFL haven't managed one to opensource themselves either...!

They'd need to be supplying advance chips to DIY board developers to make this work in their favour...

F**k they need to do that to complete their existing pre-orders anyway!!

Good idea, and this is something they can actually do right now.

See, there is always a silver lining if executed right.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Kernel32 on June 02, 2013, 02:55:25 PM

Quote from: John (John K.) on June 02, 2013, 01:48:25 PM

I might be open to do this if there was a set period (say 1 month?) where BFL will have to release more proof on the issue like reference designs/chip examples etc, and a definite period where the escrow get released back to the buyers if BFL still does not ship. (say 100 days like they promised?)

Anyhow, I'm still waiting and watching this. I don't want people to get their coins tied up too long (and me increasing my risks of holding the coins even longer) if BFL keeps delaying. If anyone has a better idea of what's going on I'm all ears.

Thank you for taking the time John.

I would maybe also add a condition of at least one capable board developer involved before any funds are collected. IF there is a reason to do so anyway.

My God,

You are doing everything right! What the hell is wrong with all the other threads that they aren't seemingly even doing half of what you are doing...

I am gonna guess you are the "go to" place for the first BFL batch order. I don't see it happening in the other threads. (Well except maybe with MrTeal.)

ecliptic

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Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Quote from: KGambler on June 02, 2013, 04:01:23 PM

Quote from: Bicknellski on June 02, 2013, 03:56:03 PM

Just on principle. Why would any buy a BFL product? Simply a NO! Let them rot. This is how you repay them for all the lies and BS. You simply don't buy any more of their products. There is not win win here. Let them rot on the vine.

They are an extremely scummy company and have done many underhanded things, but people are not going to pass up a chance to acquire a money printing machine

Avalon is already selling chips though.

jspielberg

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Quote from: KGambler on June 02, 2013, 03:50:27 PM

I think there is no chance that BFL will agree to this - none at all.

BFL is desperate for cash. Even if BFL had enough on-hand capital to accept, some existing customers would be tempted to cancel their existing pre-orders and post up with the chip escrow instead. This whole idea is the direct opposite of what BFL is trying to achieve.

Good luck though.

I tend to agree... I think BFL is on the ropes.

I speculate that if they weren't dying for cash they would have priced in BTC... but I think they need the cash and they need it now.

I would say there is no chance that BFL will accede to the demands of this buy for just 100 chips. They would much rather put the risk on the customer and if they need the money, then it works against them to foot all the risk up front.

Best of luck though... you might get "lucky" and they agree.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

It is refreshing to see some people being smart and looking before they leap.

Unlike those June 2012 BFL preorder customers.

a1phanumrc

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Quote from: KGambler on June 02, 2013, 04:01:23 PM

My favorite BFL low-life scam tactic was the fake 1,000 BTC charity donation "gaurantee".

Yup. They will never see a BTC from me because of this (and the other BS).

I have Josh on record here stating BFL will honor the donation.

It's June. Who got it?

KGambler

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Activity: 236

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Quote from: Bicknellski on June 02, 2013, 03:56:03 PM

Just on principle. Why would any buy a BFL product? Simply a NO! Let them rot. This is how you repay them for all the lies and BS. You simply don't buy any more of their products. There is not win win here. Let them rot on the vine.

They are an extremely scummy company and have done many underhanded things, but people are not going to pass up a chance to acquire a money printing machine. Will BFL ever ship in bulk? Probably not - but if they do, they will have no shortage of customers.

My favorite BFL low-life scam tactic was the fake 1,000 BTC charity donation "gaurantee".

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Just on principle. Why would any buy a BFL product? Simply a NO! Let them rot. This is how you repay them for all the lies and BS. You simply don't buy any more of their products. There is no win win here. Let them rot on the vine that is what they deserve. Let them fulfill their contractual obligations and everyone can move on to be better products coming out right now.

KGambler

full member

Activity: 236

Merit: 100

I think there is no chance that BFL will agree to this - none at all.

BFL is desperate for cash. Even if BFL had enough on-hand capital to accept, some existing customers would be tempted to cancel their existing pre-orders and post up with the chip escrow instead. This whole idea is the direct opposite of what BFL is trying to achieve.

Good luck though.

Exoskeleton

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Activity: 338

Merit: 251

Quote from: John (John K.) on June 02, 2013, 01:48:25 PM

I might be open to do this if there was a set period (say 1 month?) where BFL will have to release more proof on the issue like reference designs/chip examples etc, and a definite period where the escrow get released back to the buyers if BFL still does not ship. (say 100 days like they promised?)

Anyhow, I'm still waiting and watching this. I don't want people to get their coins tied up too long (and me increasing my risks of holding the coins even longer) if BFL keeps delaying. If anyone has a better idea of what's going on I'm all ears.

I guess what Im trying to say is that I don't think the conditions that you are outlining above will be met. They will want the 50% and there will be no way for us to know if they will refund it or not in 100 days time when we ask. I'll be following this issue as well and its nice of you to humor this idea however unlikley some of us think it is to happen.

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: KS on June 02, 2013, 01:14:47 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 02, 2013, 01:13:35 PM

Quote from: KS on June 02, 2013, 01:11:46 PM

Quote from: Kernel32 on June 02, 2013, 01:03:58 PM

Quote from: Bicknellski on June 02, 2013, 12:16:41 PM

Scam. More money for BFL and 0 delivery... one more person to ignore and one more thread to ignore.

I'm not giving BFL any money. Read at least the first post please.

I'm trying to relocate leverages as we are the costumers and we should make the rules. Not supplier.

Quote from: Exoskeleton on June 02, 2013, 12:51:42 PM

What do you think the chances are they will deliver in under 100 days? I think your going to waste your time. They won't go for it and this whole thing is a total waste of time for everyone involved. And this whole escrow thing will just tie up everyones money. John K is ready to pass on this and I don't blame him one bit.

They like to waste time of customers that already paid. Why hurry? Let's change that.

Break a leg.

(just to make sure there is no language barrier, don't take offense plz, it's a positive reinforcement)

Idiom meaning, "Good Luck" Wink

Don't jinx it!

Unfortunately, that genuinely was my nickname at uni.

Jinx's can be positive as well though... Wink

Topic: 65 nm Chips - [BFL ACCEPTED 100% ESCROW by John K.] - Group Buy #1 - Kernel32 - page 9. (Read 14740 times)