65 nm Chips - [BFL ACCEPTED 100% ESCROW by John K.] - Group Buy #1 - Kernel32 - page 6.

k9quaint

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Quote from: MrTeal on June 07, 2013, 07:11:36 PM

Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:46:38 PM

will the chips in the mixed lots be specifically labeled with "A", "B", etc?

Quote from: MrTeal on June 07, 2013, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:29:47 PM

why they plan to sell mixed grade lots?

Because with their previous pricing and allowing people to pick their grades, they would never sell anything but grade A chips. Now they don't have to worry about demand for one type being higher than the others.

No. Each chip will be labeled with a custom code and a set of clues, leading the purchaser through a set of puzzles each more devious than the last. It is only when you've gone through every challenge and survived an epic plot twist that the final grade will be revealed.

And there is a cake.

MrTeal

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Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:46:38 PM

will the chips in the mixed lots be specifically labeled with "A", "B", etc?

Quote from: MrTeal on June 07, 2013, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:29:47 PM

why they plan to sell mixed grade lots?

Because with their previous pricing and allowing people to pick their grades, they would never sell anything but grade A chips. Now they don't have to worry about demand for one type being higher than the others.

No. Each chip will be labeled with a custom code and a set of clues, leading the purchaser through a set of puzzles each more devious than the last. It is only when you've gone through every challenge and survived an epic plot twist that the final grade will be revealed.

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:46:38 PM

will the chips in the mixed lots be specifically labeled with "A", "B", etc?

I believe a certain "Forrest Gump" quote about a box of chocolates is apropos about now.

newmars

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will the chips in the mixed lots be specifically labeled with "A", "B", etc?

Quote from: MrTeal on June 07, 2013, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:29:47 PM

why they plan to sell mixed grade lots?

Because with their previous pricing and allowing people to pick their grades, they would never sell anything but grade A chips. Now they don't have to worry about demand for one type being higher than the others.

k9quaint

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Quote from: Rampion on June 07, 2013, 03:18:35 PM

Guys, what's the need to hurt yourself? Is greed so blinding, really?

Let it go. We got in the arse with BFL. We suffered, and now we accept we will never get our Singles, Mini Singles and Mini Rigs.

Don't add insult to the injury. So now they sell their chips in order for the community to find out how to design units from them? And you BUY?

Seriously guys. Have a little bit of self-respect at least.

Nobody has bought anything yet. AFAIK the group buy is not open. This is just an exploratory thread to see if BFL can offer (and keep to) terms that would entice the community to buy their chips.

nave

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Quote from: k9quaint on June 07, 2013, 03:11:29 PM

Quote from: nave on June 07, 2013, 03:04:27 PM

So I haven't been following all of the BFL drama over the past however long, but I have another concern that might be of note to this group buy.

We know that they have actual chips that work, they've shipped (a few) Jalapenos. But from what I've seen of the tear down of these devices they have 2 working chips on a board designed to house 8 chips, with a pretty beefy heatsink and fan on those two chips. They've stated they missed their power numbers, and thereby the chips run hotter than they intended. Is it possible (me not being much more than a hardware layman) that these chips run too hot for any reasonable cluster size on a PCB?

If so, then BFL could ship the chips, fully complying with the terms of the group buy, and have the money released from escrow, only to have the buyers holding chips that overheat constantly and have to be throttled or have fewer chips placed per board than intended. I think it was a surprise to a lot of people (myself included) that Josh agreed to the full escrow deal. Maybe this is why? They have a ton of chips and can only use a few per board? It would only make sense to sell them and get all the money they could out of their (our) investment at that point.

That would certainly explain why they have not released the Singles or Mini-rig prototypes. Those are supposed to be densely populated boards. Perhaps the chips cannot be kept cool. Very hard to say until they release specs and samples.

Exactly. I might suggest to the group buy that previous to the escrow being released they are able to test a fully populated board with sample chips that are running at full speed and on all cores in order to be able to see how much heat they're putting out and work out a suitable cooling solution if one exists.

MrTeal

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Quote from: newmars on June 07, 2013, 05:29:47 PM

why they plan to sell mixed grade lots?

Because with their previous pricing and allowing people to pick their grades, they would never sell anything but grade A chips. Now they don't have to worry about demand for one type being higher than the others.

newmars

full member

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why they plan to sell mixed grade lots?

ThatBitcoinGuy

newbie

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...and just like the cans of Planter's mixed nuts, there ain't gonna be many pecans.

philips

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Update:

Quote

Chips are sold in mixed grade lots.

https://products.butterflylabs.com/65nm-asic-bitcoin-mining-chip.html

Rampion

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Guys, what's the need to hurt yourself? Is greed so blinding, really?

Let it go. We got in the arse with BFL. We suffered, and now we accept we will never get our Singles, Mini Singles and Mini Rigs.

Don't add insult to the injury. So now they sell their chips in order for the community to find out how to design units from them? And you BUY?

Seriously guys. Have a little bit of self-respect at least.

k9quaint

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: nave on June 07, 2013, 03:04:27 PM

So I haven't been following all of the BFL drama over the past however long, but I have another concern that might be of note to this group buy.

We know that they have actual chips that work, they've shipped (a few) Jalapenos. But from what I've seen of the tear down of these devices they have 2 working chips on a board designed to house 8 chips, with a pretty beefy heatsink and fan on those two chips. They've stated they missed their power numbers, and thereby the chips run hotter than they intended. Is it possible (me not being much more than a hardware layman) that these chips run too hot for any reasonable cluster size on a PCB?

If so, then BFL could ship the chips, fully complying with the terms of the group buy, and have the money released from escrow, only to have the buyers holding chips that overheat constantly and have to be throttled or have fewer chips placed per board than intended. I think it was a surprise to a lot of people (myself included) that Josh agreed to the full escrow deal. Maybe this is why? They have a ton of chips and can only use a few per board? It would only make sense to sell them and get all the money they could out of their (our) investment at that point.

That would certainly explain why they have not released the Singles or Mini-rig prototypes. Those are supposed to be densely populated boards. Perhaps the chips cannot be kept cool. Very hard to say until they release specs and samples.

nave

donator

Activity: 162

Merit: 100

So I haven't been following all of the BFL drama over the past however long, but I have another concern that might be of note to this group buy.

We know that they have actual chips that work, they've shipped (a few) Jalapenos. But from what I've seen of the tear down of these devices they have 2 working chips on a board designed to house 8 chips, with a pretty beefy heatsink and fan on those two chips. They've stated they missed their power numbers, and thereby the chips run hotter than they intended. Is it possible (me not being much more than a hardware layman) that these chips run too hot for any reasonable cluster size on a PCB?

If so, then BFL could ship the chips, fully complying with the terms of the group buy, and have the money released from escrow, only to have the buyers holding chips that overheat constantly and have to be throttled or have fewer chips placed per board than intended. I think it was a surprise to a lot of people (myself included) that Josh agreed to the full escrow deal. Maybe this is why? They have a ton of chips and can only use a few per board? It would only make sense to sell them and get all the money they could out of their (our) investment at that point.

tom_o

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Quote from: trepex on June 07, 2013, 01:28:19 PM

Is it just me, that did the math and wondered about the results?

Grade A: 16 Engines - $97/chip = 6.0625 $ / engine
Grade B: 15 Engines - $93/chip = 6.2000 $ / engine
Grade C: 14 Engines - $89/chip = 6.3571 $ / engine

So no one would "order" the Grade B/C chips. I would expect those chips to be cheaper (not absolute, but per engine) so that they can still be sold.

Ralf

The silicone and dev costs are the same, but yeah odd results. nice to get binned parts though whereas Avalon apparently 5% are DOA.

trepex

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Is it just me, that did the math and wondered about the results?

Grade A: 16 Engines - $97/chip = 6.0625 $ / engine
Grade B: 15 Engines - $93/chip = 6.2000 $ / engine
Grade C: 14 Engines - $89/chip = 6.3571 $ / engine

So no one would "order" the Grade B/C chips. I would expect those chips to be cheaper (not absolute, but per engine) so that they can still be sold.

Ralf

burnin

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Activity: 243

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ALTCOM Ab9upXvD7ChnJxDRZgMmwNNEf1ftCGWrsE

I would start work on a custom BFL-chip board once i'm done with the Avalon development.
(I am sure can recycle some design aspects which should speed things up)
But It would need encouraging news from them that indicate that we can really expect them to deliver + documentation on the chips.

Zubilica

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Till now every aspect is covered, and this not deal where the manufacturer can delay or postpone, 100 days is the deadline. I'm really hoping that you can convince some hardware developers to contribute. Break a leg.

Operatr

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www.DonateMedia.org

Quote from: Kernel32 on June 07, 2013, 08:17:24 AM

Quote from: 67152398 on June 07, 2013, 08:09:15 AM

Another scam
Angry

Seriously man, did you read any part of this thread? Can you explain why do you think this is a scam 67152398 ?

It's a good thing to be careful, but c'mon we have John (not the same person as Josh Wink

) .

BFL itself is the scam, get real.

Zero products shipped from the revised BitForce line (Jalepenos are older and no longer offered, Little SC was supposed to replace it, none have shipped at all in over one year)

Now offering chips that are just as much vaporware as their ghost machines

And they are apparently wasting time on their own charity thing?

BFL and all of their cronies earned a scammer tag here, that should be enough to kill this thread right here and now.

blo

member

Activity: 73

Merit: 10

I think if the board developers would be interested and they will be able to get a working prototype in a short time, it immediately becomes a lot more interested people.

In this case, I'm ready to put some money in this.

Kernel32

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

If you can't do something smart,do something right

Quote from: 67152398 on June 07, 2013, 08:09:15 AM

Another scam
Angry

Seriously man, did you read any part of this thread? Can you explain why do you think this is a scam 67152398 ?

It's a good thing to be careful, but c'mon we have John (not the same person as Josh Wink

) .

Topic: 65 nm Chips - [BFL ACCEPTED 100% ESCROW by John K.] - Group Buy #1 - Kernel32 - page 6. (Read 14740 times)