Topic: 70 years after the Victory: Lest We Forget (despite every effort to do so) - page 2. (Read 6388 times)

that's your "perception". I'm not mixing anything up. Poland was free and not part of either nazi germany or ussr.
So they were not liberated and I stand by that statement.

During the Nazi occupation of Poland, it lost 21.4% of its population. During the period of 1939-1945, the country was dismembered: Western region attached to the Third Reich (by sending in two million German immigrants), and in the east there was established General Government of Reichsleiter Hans Frank. Colonists were given the best land and homes, confiscating them from the local residents, with hundreds of thousands being driven out. Poles were considered “Untermensch” second-class nation – they could not even go to the same tram with Aryans. The worst SS concentration camp in human history worked on Polish territory – Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek. The Germans destroyed nearly 40% of the buildings, a third of the population was homeless. Is it better than what happened later?

1. Wrong perception of the event. I'll repeat, what I wrote earlier:
That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

2. You are mixing up liberation of Poland and the prior strategic move designed so as not to lose the war before it even started. Read the following two articles:
http://stanislavs.org/the-sorrow-of-a-warsaw-woman-why-poland-is-not-happy-to-be-liberated-from-fascism/
http://stanislavs.org/ungrateful-europe-what-would-have-happened-should-we-push-hitler-back-just-to-our-borders/

3. An "oppressive regime" that gave Poland large landmasses, treated Poland as a nation, infused Polish economy with Soviet funds, workforce and engineers (at a detriment to the Soviet Union/Russia). See the two articles above.

During the Nazi occupation of Poland, it lost 21.4% of its population. During the period of 1939-1945, the country was dismembered: Western region attached to the Third Reich (by sending in two million German immigrants), and in the east there was established General Government of Reichsleiter Hans Frank. Colonists were given the best land and homes, confiscating them from the local residents, with hundreds of thousands being driven out. Poles were considered “Untermensch” second-class nation – they could not even go to the same tram with Aryans. The worst SS concentration camp in human history worked on Polish territory – Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek. The Germans destroyed nearly 40% of the buildings, a third of the population was homeless. Is it better than what happened later?

Yes, a regime was established for 45 years in Poland, which was not a sweet for us. But nobody destroyed Poles as a nation, their country was an independent state, even under the influence of “big brother” in Moscow. Republic has risen from the ruins in the shortest timespan possible with the Soviet money. But they prefer to simply turn a blind eye on this fact in modern Poland.

– In 1945 Poland received the cities of Breslau, Gdansk, Zielona Gora, Legnica, Szczecin, – says Maciej Wisniewski, a Polish freelance journalist. – USSR also gave the territory of Bialystok; with the mediation of Stalin, we acquired a disputed with Czechoslovakia city Kłodzko. Nevertheless, they believe here: the partitioning of Poland by the Molotov – Ribbentrop Pact, when the Soviet Union took the Western Belarus and Western Ukraine, was unfair, but the transfer by Stalin to Poland of Silesia and Pomerania is absolutely fair, you can not dispute this. It is fashionable to say now that Russians did not liberate, but conquered. However, it turns into an interesting kind of occupation, when Poland got for free a quarter of Germany: and on top of it, hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers shed their blood for this land. Even the GDR resisted, not wanting to give Szczecin to the Poles – the dispute over the city was finally solved only in 1956, under pressure from the USSR.

(1) Stalin and Hitler agreed to split the country in half. (2) I wouldn't say they were liberated at all. (3) They were only "liberated" from one oppressive regime to another.
A little ridiculous though.

Polish authorities are going too far in their boot-licking.

As we all know, the only 3 countries that opposed the recent UN resolution against glorification of Nazism are USA, Canada and Ukraine.

Poland didn't have anything against, when fully-armed US troops waltzed over their country.

However, they blocked the Russian bikers, civilians, on their motor-cross "The Roads of Victory", commemorating the 70th anniversary of the Victory over Nazi Germany. Not only Polish authorities grill the bikers and journalists - all having valid Schengen visas - for 6 hours at the border, they failed to give any plausible reason for the refusal to enter the country. The bikers were intimidated with fully-armed special police detachments. Polish ambassador received from the Russian Foreign Ministry a note of protest with a request to give formal explanation of blocking the commemorative action, calling a total refusal to remember the Auschwitz.

http://tass.ru/politika/1938466
http://www.kp.ru/daily/26372.5/3253603/

Not only that, but the Polish authorities put a military cordon with armoured vehicles around a memorial cemetery, prohibiting Polish bikers, who took up the cross, from entering it and laying flowers to the graves of the Soviet soldiers, who 70 years ago paid with their lives for liberation of Poland. Polish authorities have thus used military against democratic right of their own Polish citizens.

"Due to the fact that the "Night Wolves" were officially denied entry to Poland, Hirurg (the leader of the club - Ed.) will give the message (the message from the veterans of the Great Patriotic War to the veterans of Europe - Ed.) to the Europeans through their Polish biker friends. Our brothers in spirit will anyway reach Berlin! "

Don’t miss this video!

This is a very nice song about the Great Patriotic War (WWII) and the Great Victory. The real documentary footage from 1941-45 is a revelation, including battles, the historic Victory Banner over Berlin’s Reichstag, but especially, the striking footage of how those who were lucky to survive were greeted back home.

“For all those who are alive, and who are already gone – and for those who are still to be born…”

This is a translation from Russian of two historical articles, published in Argumenty i Fakty on the 3rd of April 2015.
The main article was written by Georgij Zotov. A subsequent expert opinion is presented by historian Rudolph Pihoj.

On the eve of the 70th anniversary of Victory “AiF” tried to imagine: what would the map of Europe look like, had USSR not given thousands of kilometres of territories as present to those countries that now call us occupiers. And if they would give up these lands now.

Wroclaw – one of the most touristic cities of Poland. Crowds with cameras are everywhere, there’s not a spare spot in the expensive restaurants, taxi drivers ask for ungodly prices. At the entrance to the marketplace there waves a banner saying “Wroclaw – a real Polish charm!”. All seems fine, but as early as in May 1945 Wroclaw was called Breslau and had not belonged to Poland for 600 consecutive(!) years before that. The Victory Day, now referred by Warsaw as “the beginning of the communist tyranny,” added to Poland the German Silesia, Pomerania, as well as 80% of East Prussia. No one mentions this now: in other words that was a tyranny, but we’d still grab that land. “AiF” observer decided to understand, what would the map of Europe look like now, if our former brothers in the East were left without the help of the “occupiers”?

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Lada Ray published an incredible article, detailing how fickle the public opinion is, showing it on the example of several war-time films that came from Hollywood and made for a strong pro-Russian propaganda. Then, after Roosevelt's death (murder?) the propaganda made a U-turn, demonising Russia/USSR, then a new U-turn during Gorbachov/Yeltsin, when it became possible to break USSR and pillage Russia, and a new U-turn again, when Putin came to power and shut the flood-gates.

The nazi's won. You're all disillusioned.
They took over the US govt and have been working their agenda back into the world since than.

Here is a remarkable list of films (in Russian and English) released by Hollywood during the period between 1942 and 1945:

“Дни Cлaвы” – Days of Glory, 1944
“Mиccия в Mocквy” – Mission To Moscow
“Ceвepнaя Звeздa” – The North Star (тaкжe извecтeн пoд нaзвaниeм «Бpoниpoвaннaя aтaкa» aka, Armored Attack)
“Пecня o Poccии” – Song Of Russia, 1944

The story of these films is truly incredible and hard to imagine in view of today’s escalation of anti-Russian rhetoric and saber-rattling. After maligning the young Soviet Union for years since 1917, in 1941-42 Hollywood suddenly was charged with creating a positive PR campaign, in which Russia would be portrayed as a “nice country, with people just like Americans, who want to live in peace and who value their culture, music and art; who work hard and who also fight hard to defend their country.” All this was supposed to help “the war effort,” as expressed by the US President Franklin Roosevelt.

For this piece, I chose to talk about Days of Glory and Song of Russia.

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Let’s get this straight:

American and British propaganda worked hard to create a threatening and negative image of Russia in the form of the young USSR, after they first financed Lenin and the Bolshevik revolution. Then, when emergency knocked on the door in the form of the advancing Hitler armies (the monster who was also their handiwork), they began working equally hard to dispel what they had created! As soon as the war was over, MSM and Hollywood were back on track re-creating the image of Russia as USA’s worst enemy, organizing the Iron Curtain and Cold War in the process.

Next, in 1991-1998, when Yeltsin and Co. were conducting the wholesale sell-out of the country to the West, US media again worked hard to dispel the image of Russia as an enemy they carefully maintained in the previous 40 years. In the ’90s, I lived in the US and I remember the sudden and shocking turn to the positive propaganda. Yeltsin’s Russia was praised. Why not! It was, after all, the regime that surrendered to the West all the prized properties and achievements generations of Russians had worked hard to create. Meanwhile, the same propaganda machine conducted a bashing campaign against stubborn Serbia because someone still had to play the arch-enemy’s role while Russia was otherwise engaged.

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Looks like the Czech President got pressured after all. He will come to Moscow, but will not attend the Parade, using the time for talks with Slovak PM:
http://ria.ru/politics/20150410/1057789887.html

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange

The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange was necessary, as large parts of the then Poland had majority populations of Belorussians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians, who never accepted the Polish domination of their lands. Poland ceded its eastern territories, which were having a majority of Belorussians and other ethnic groups, while they gained territories such as Silesia and East Pomerania, where Poles constituted a simple majority.

Oh, I forgot how generous Stalin was in Yalta. He later robbed the country of its resources for years, for example in "The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange", where they moved the border to annex rich coal deposits, that belonged to Poland. Say what you like I will never feel thankful to the Soviets, they did more harm than good in Europe.