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Topic: 7nm miner thread - page 2. (Read 7511 times)

legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1710
Electrical engineer. Mining since 2014.
October 05, 2017, 02:25:20 PM
#71
Spoke with some well respected crypto people based out of Japan, they confirmed this company is 100% full of shit. They will never bring a 7nm miner to the table.
Do you have any specific info to back this allegation?

This is interesting because GMO Internet is actually quite big company and has been around making IT product for a while.
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
October 04, 2017, 09:01:04 PM
#70
Spoke with some well respected crypto people based out of Japan, they confirmed this company is 100% full of shit. They will never bring a 7nm miner to the table.

Well if you told me to make a guess I would guess they never sell it.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 560
October 04, 2017, 06:44:32 PM
#69
Spoke with some well respected crypto people based out of Japan, they confirmed this company is 100% full of shit. They will never bring a 7nm miner to the table.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
October 04, 2017, 12:51:01 PM
#68
I don't like the relatively low reliability of the S9, and nothing BitFury based showed up for a long time, so I've BEEN waiting.

 If the S9 was RELIABLE, I'd probably have been accumulating them for a while now.


Same after some teaser videos the chip news from bitfury has dried up most of there videos now are to promote their data centers .

They actually DO sell chips and miners... You simply need to put in a MOQ of $1 Million USD.


legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1130
Bitcoin FTW!
September 27, 2017, 06:27:46 PM
#67
I don't like the relatively low reliability of the S9, and nothing BitFury based showed up for a long time, so I've BEEN waiting.

 If the S9 was RELIABLE, I'd probably have been accumulating them for a while now.


Same after some teaser videos the chip news from bitfury has dried up most of there videos now are to promote their data centers .

 There are a few folks using BitFury chips to make miners being sold to the public - the Hotmine X5/X6 comes immediately to mind.

 I do with Sidehack would get to his BitFury project - at the rate he's going, the chips he has access to might be OUTDATED because he keeps puttering around with old OUTDATED stuff first.



Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to get your hands on one of those miners and many have tried to no avail. Sidehack's going at his own speed and it'll probably be too late for the Bitfury chips to be profitable at all, but he always designed hardware for hobbyists anyways. Bitfury hardware is difficult to obtain and you'll probably pay a premium for it if you get anything from em.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
September 27, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
#66
I don't like the relatively low reliability of the S9, and nothing BitFury based showed up for a long time, so I've BEEN waiting.

 If the S9 was RELIABLE, I'd probably have been accumulating them for a while now.


Same after some teaser videos the chip news from bitfury has dried up most of there videos now are to promote their data centers .

 There are a few folks using BitFury chips to make miners being sold to the public - the Hotmine X5/X6 comes immediately to mind.

 I do with Sidehack would get to his BitFury project - at the rate he's going, the chips he has access to might be OUTDATED because he keeps puttering around with old OUTDATED stuff first.


legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
September 26, 2017, 04:25:15 PM
#65
I don't like the relatively low reliability of the S9, and nothing BitFury based showed up for a long time, so I've BEEN waiting.

 If the S9 was RELIABLE, I'd probably have been accumulating them for a while now.



I would have at least 12 s-9's  maybe 15  but they break a lot so I have 3 and ⅔  of them  and still no reply for repair to one board.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 12
Block Hunting
September 26, 2017, 02:14:15 PM
#64
I don't like the relatively low reliability of the S9, and nothing BitFury based showed up for a long time, so I've BEEN waiting.

 If the S9 was RELIABLE, I'd probably have been accumulating them for a while now.


Same after some teaser videos the chip news from bitfury has dried up most of there videos now are to promote their data centers .
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
September 26, 2017, 02:03:58 PM
#63
I don't like the relatively low reliability of the S9, and nothing BitFury based showed up for a long time, so I've BEEN waiting.

 If the S9 was RELIABLE, I'd probably have been accumulating them for a while now.

full member
Activity: 315
Merit: 120
September 25, 2017, 04:24:54 PM
#62
I agree; it's probably expensive to setup liquid and would take maintenance.  

Would you buy a 16/14 nm Bitcoin miner, at this point, or wait for the next gen to come out?
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
September 25, 2017, 02:34:41 PM
#61
EUV isn't an option for 10nm and smaller.

 It is a REQUIREMENT and has been one of the major factors causing delays in the deployment of new smaller nodes of production.

 There is no reason why smaller node chips will require anything more than air cooling.

 Immersion cooling can be nice - but it's only practical on a HUGE SCALE for mining.
 Even most of the MAJOR industrial-level mining farms have been air cooled due to the cost of setting up an immersion cooling setup.

 Even for LARGE SCALE mines, the efficiency might not be worth the up-front costs, though the longer "cycle times" for equipment might change that some now that mining has caught up to semiconductor state-of-the-art.

full member
Activity: 315
Merit: 120
September 24, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
#60

There should be more development with the chips that are currently available and I think chips around 7nm will have no choice but to be cooled in this way. 

It'd be nice to save some energy, right now, but I'm worried about playing with the S9s.  One could probably increase efficiencies with liquid cool, but I'm afraid I'd ruin them.  It took me eight months before I was comfortable taking them apart to clean.  I'd probably try it on an S7 first if I owned one.

member
Activity: 84
Merit: 12
Block Hunting
September 24, 2017, 01:45:39 PM
#59

I think we have yet to see full potental from what we have already let alone 10nm and 7nm chips.

This is from the 16nm series chips from bitfury a while back.

https://youtu.be/DSbmuBvDWo0

There should be more development with the chips that are currently available and I think chips around 7nm will have no choice but to be cooled in this way.

Esoteric methods of manufacturing like extreme ultraviolet lasers will aid in the process of such chips.

member
Activity: 84
Merit: 12
Block Hunting
September 24, 2017, 10:31:07 AM
#57
I think we are still to see the advantage of immersed chips and other forms of liquid cooling that would be the next step I see being developed.

Liquid cooling is still serious option available and the performance improvements are also something that could be looked into.

Liquid cooling  is not  bad  it works well for cpu's and gpus.

if GMO  ends up  seling a gpu style miner with liquid cooling I would buy it.


I have looked at gmo I think what we are talking about could be a possiblity.

Not to forget this guy..

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/visit-of-asicminers-immersion-cooling-mining-facility-346134

legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
September 24, 2017, 10:26:08 AM
#56
I think we are still to see the advantage of immersed chips and other forms of liquid cooling that would be the next step I see being developed.

Liquid cooling is still serious option available and the performance improvements are also something that could be looked into.

Liquid cooling  is not  bad  it works well for cpu's and gpus.

if GMO  ends up  seling a gpu style miner with liquid cooling I would buy it.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
September 24, 2017, 10:25:34 AM
#55
Germanium, like Silicon, is a semiconductor material.
Germanium was actually more common than Silicon in the early days of semiconductor manufacturing, but it turned out Silicon had a higher tolerance for heat AND was less expensive to make wafers for (silicon is literally dirt-cheap - a large proportion of "dirt" is Silicon, along with Aluminum and Iron).
... the relatively poor heat capacity is going to cause it's OWN issues.

BitFury reports to use immersion cooling on their website to nearly double their efficiency. This would probably give them an advantage to understand the tech well if the next generation is going to run hotter.  Seeing those numbers makes me think about researching into it more.

Even when 7nm reaches actual production - what are the YIELDS going to be like?
 

They are reporting 10 Th/s with 500W on the GMO 7nm chipset, so that's about double the efficiency of an S9 - not a large jump like 28 to 16/14nm - but still significant.


 You're addressing a question there.
 Yield has to do with how many usable die you get from a wafer as a percentage of the POSSIBLE die you should get if there are no flaws.

 Efficiency - I'm starting to question their figures a LOT, 28nm to 14/16nm in Mining ASIC so far has seen about half the power usage per hash in most usage on comparably optimised products (S7 to S9 for example).

 Given that quantum effects have been limiting the gains in both possible clock rate AND in efficiency at an increasingly worse level per generation for GENERATIONS now, I doubt we're going to see an improvement of 2.5 TIMES the efficiency from 7nm - even if it really IS 7nm and not just CALLED that while having real feature size closer to 9-10 nm range.



member
Activity: 84
Merit: 12
Block Hunting
September 24, 2017, 10:02:52 AM
#54
I think we are still to see the advantage of immersed chips and other forms of liquid cooling that would be the next step I see being developed.

Liquid cooling is still serious option available and the performance improvements are also something that could be looked into.
full member
Activity: 315
Merit: 120
September 24, 2017, 01:17:37 AM
#53

That article makes me think less of them as of today no one has good 10 nm


I, too, am beginning to think more and more that they are dreaming as I look into their project.   
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
September 24, 2017, 12:14:36 AM
#52
Germanium, like Silicon, is a semiconductor material.
Germanium was actually more common than Silicon in the early days of semiconductor manufacturing, but it turned out Silicon had a higher tolerance for heat AND was less expensive to make wafers for (silicon is literally dirt-cheap - a large proportion of "dirt" is Silicon, along with Aluminum and Iron).
... the relatively poor heat capacity is going to cause it's OWN issues.

BitFury reports to use immersion cooling on their website to nearly double their efficiency. This would probably give them an advantage to understand the tech well if the next generation is going to run hotter.  Seeing those numbers makes me think about researching into it more.

Even when 7nm reaches actual production - what are the YIELDS going to be like?
 

They are reporting 10 Th/s with 500W on the GMO 7nm chipset, so that's about double the efficiency of an S9 - not a large jump like 28 to 16/14nm - but still significant.

 

 





That article makes me think less of them as of today no one has good 10 nm

And they are talking 7nm 5nm and 3.5 nm

My thoughts are this. 7nm in 2019 at best.

5nm in ?

3.5nm. I think comes in over 10 years.
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