A Fully Decentralized World is Possible? - page 2.

ChrisPop

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

There is a project that is now working on creating a real decentralized network and they have big plans. They're not after money, but want to make a impactful change in the world so we will be no longer dependent on the authorities. The project is called QORT - you can search it on Bitcointalk or give me a PM and I'll forward you to it.

Decentralization is something we should achieve in order for our world to function better so we should pursue it!

seoincorporation

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

The society has services like water, electricity, internet... and for those services, we need a provider, and that's the problem, we can decentralize those services, maybe they could start accepting bitcoin payment but the way they work is centralized, if you don't pay your bills they will just cut the service. I think this is one obstacle to decentralization.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

I personally feel that going towards this direction of being fully decentralized, we may feel the opposite of what we are expecting. The purpose of the government is for the general welfare of the people and for the benefit of the country so we cannot disregard their duty.

A decentralized currency may be considered as one example that can be beneficial but other aspects like properties, healthcare, etc. are best left to the government for their regulation and control. Imagine living a world with freedom on actions- which may potentially be chaotic in the long run.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

And how are satellites more decentralized than ISP's? It's the same client-server relationship as with having wired Internet. I think this example just shows that decentralization is very hard to achieve, and may be even impossible. Satoshi invented decentralized money because he came up with very clever solution based on proof of work and cryptography, but this same solution doesn't apply to other fields, because there's a fundamental and unsolved problem with "putting something on blockchain" - all the proposed solution have some trusted parties, meaning they are not decentralized.

So, just because someone says that they are decentralized, it doesn't mean that they actually are, and it should be verified by someone with enough knowledge about the system.

Eclipse26

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A world that is fully decentralized where no one is ruling and controlling each other can make the world into a mess. We always need someone to lead us. To make things organized. If we control every asset we have and no one is there to interfere and regulate it, it's more vulnerable for theft. Since no one would even care if you lost your asset since you wanted to control your own assets. A society won't function if everyone's only minding their own. Even in a small organization, we tend to choose someone who'll lead us to control us. That's why a fully decentralized world won't work.

Murat

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I don't think so, It will never ever possible so far I know, How you can control your whole thing by yourself? You can't do because you are able to control the whole process, Yeah, You may have the control on your money but all the monetary system is controlled by the government, Most important thing is that without centralized system within the government, you can't live a systematic life within your society, of course, Government can't run without cental based policy and it's not possible to keep calm in the society without full controlling of Government, A lot of disorder would be held when government can't have any control over the situation, So I don't think this would be a good idea for any development.

Lauren Smith

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Quote from: mazdafunsun on October 09, 2019, 11:47:30 AM

It is not possible, it is a dream.
There is not only negative side of control over money and transfers but also legitimate reasons why governments need to do it. The biggest one is money laundering, we all live in countries and countries give us different kind of services which are financed by our taxes. Therefore there is need for control and centralisation.

We won't need taxes since the money will come from us. We will have different investments and ownage in different things. Everything around you will be sorted into shared(basically crypto currency) everyone will need to own a certain amount and they would want to as well or they would not have crypto to survive. It would work. Basically, if you don't support the infilstructre you will starve.

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Quote from: Alert31 on October 09, 2019, 11:24:36 AM

No,because government agency and banks will not allow that to happen. Even crypto is legal in some countries it is still impossible to have a fully decentralized world because still government has a full authority over it. We have rules and regulation to follow.

But crypto is decentralized, in some ways. One of the biggest thing for governments is money. So, if they make our money decentralized, why not the other things? Main source of income for the governments is taxes. This is a contradiction. If we make ourselves decentralized in terms of controlling our own money, than the other things should be more easy.

We don't need taxes. Everything will be decentralized.

finaleshot2016

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Quote from: Ucy on October 11, 2019, 05:06:56 AM

Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

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In fact, if you are more scrupulous in approaching this issue, then any independence of a person and of those systems that he uses is quite illusory. Independence does not exist, and the same can be said about anonymity, which is simply a manic idea of many, which is not feasible in our realities. But in the future it’s very difficult to talk about it at all, as technologies are developing at a rapid pace.

Actually, I don't believe in the idea of being fully decentralized in the world. We may have in the far future but till then, we will be on other planets. And those who believe in fully decentralized worlds will be having a single planet for their ideas. On earth, it doesn't seem much possible.

Yes, we may reach the greatness and power but I'm still thinking that there's someone that will rule as the greatest of them all. It's very impossible for the idea of being a decentralized world because there will be always power and the desire to control things.

Even we're in modern technology where we use advanced technology, even the internet was developing, the decentralized world is very impossible.

lionheart78

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Quote from: micalith on October 09, 2019, 02:12:35 PM

Then I want to ask if we really believe in cryptocurrencies or not. Because, the idea of decentalization for me starts with bitcoin. If we don't think that we will not get decentralization, being here doesn't make much sense. As I said, this is a contradiction and we first need to overcome this in order to move on to the next one.

Being here does make sense, we believe in decentralization but alas, in reality we have no power to implement it in our country, but even though that is the truth, having a small community of people practicing decentralized stuff feels great.

Quote from: Mandoy on October 11, 2019, 08:36:54 AM

It is really possible but there are many obstacles before we could realize that. First we have government adoption of cryptocurrency; as we all know not all countries are able to recognize bitcoin just like India where the government is banning the use of cryptocurrency. We also have the internet connections; not all areas around the world has internet access and can make transactions using a mobile phone or app. Aside from that our world today is still clinging to the traditional currency which is fiat, the world is so used to it that we will need to wait for long years before cryptocurrency will replace fiat. But in the end it is still possible to have a fully decentralized world in the future, but as of now we still are very far away from it.

Government adopting cryptocurrency means imposing regulation on it. Thus the law will be applied and obviously there will be restrictions. Once government regulation is applied, the decentralized system will automatically collapse since it will autmatically shift to centralized governance.

Mandoy

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It is really possible but there are many obstacles before we could realize that. First we have government adoption of cryptocurrency; as we all know not all countries are able to recognize bitcoin just like India where the government is banning the use of cryptocurrency. We also have the internet connections; not all areas around the world has internet access and can make transactions using a mobile phone or app. Aside from that our world today is still clinging to the traditional currency which is fiat, the world is so used to it that we will need to wait for long years before cryptocurrency will replace fiat. But in the end it is still possible to have a fully decentralized world in the future, but as of now we still are very far away from it.

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Quote from: RIDER_tej on October 09, 2019, 12:24:40 PM

It is a good thought however we required to think in various directions, if you expect a fully decentralized world then how do you face a situation when you are supposed to make a payment in an unknown city who do not know you and your digital asset turned off due to no charging Huh

also imagine the shop keeper is very aggressive.

With full decentralization it will not make the government ineffective.
Their job is to monitor us, penalized those who go against the law therefore they will never allow to lose power because of decentralization.

just take Libra for example, its planning to have their project launch by next year but the government sees a possibility that it will make fiat obsolete and they will loss control since its facebook that will issue money to billions of people who might use their platform, in short they are threaten.

Ucy

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

Similar satellite for Bitcoin already exists. It is called Blockstream Satellite. I guess there are few other Bitcoin satellites in the sky owned by thesame/other companies. Am not sure if this particular satellite is capable of sending and receiving data like normal internet satellites. The last time I checked, it's used for downloading full nodes. The company probably has more Bitcoin satellites and/or normal internet satellites in the sky today

peter0425

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Quote from: RIDER_tej on October 09, 2019, 12:24:40 PM

It is a good thought however we required to think in various directions, if you expect a fully decentralized world then how do you face a situation when you are supposed to make a payment in an unknown city who do not know you and your digital asset turned off due to no charging Huh

also imagine the shop keeper is very aggressive.

Nice point and this is some of the problems that decentralization will bring,and I believe that we don’t need to be fully decentralized because world has a lot of things to have in centralized governments,yeah we hate regulations in crypto but this not applied to all the things we have

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Unfortunately full decentralization is probably impossible and this is already a utopia

Why does it mean Utopia?can you kindly explain how it goes ?sorry but I don’t get the point here

Eugenar

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

Basically, it seems so impossible because you are isolating yourself from the law, which you need to abide, decentralize money has their potential to be acceptable because of its many features that benefits the common good, but considering the system where you have your own unregulated internet connection seems impossible, it needs to be connected to the transatlantic cable above the seabed and the ISP's are the one that have the capability to have that.

skarais

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In my opinion, the government is an organization that carries out the task of managing the government system and implementing policies in achieving the country's goals. I don't think that the government should regulate everything, but they also give freedom to their citizens to make their own personal rules. But if the economic problems and the financial system maybe they can not allow and prevent things that threaten the financial system.
The government has the right to regulate, because that is their job.

Leyss

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Making our world completely decentralized is not possible. The centralization of our life primarily means its streamlining, that is, the establishment of general rules of conduct in society, the non-observance of which entails certain sanctions against violators of these rules. If this does not happen, there will be chaos in the world where the right of the strong will prevail. Humanity has already passed these periods of development and there is no point in returning to them.
A similar thing will happen in the financial sector if we want decentralization in it. Then we completely need to rely only on ourselves and fully take responsibility for possible risks. Not everyone will be ready for this.

Miklight88

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every country has there way in handling their situation but can we really hve that chance of decentralized in all aspect of live ? i dont think so as many govt would not give a damn about it as cetralized is what gives them power to rule over the citizen which i think are why some are yet to work toward the decentralized system and ven with the crypto they still control the AML and KYC of a thing just like US .

boltz

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Its hard to decentralize everything but bitcoin was created for this and we should make something to keep it in this way. In my opinion I don't think even the decentralize exchanges are 100% like that but they feed us with this until we're thinking they are. A fully decentralized world will make Banks really go away and fiat will no longer be available or will have worthless value and its impossible to achieve something like this when they already trying to make fully control of Bitcoin ...this was not Nakamoto's dream at all ...Governments don't care, they just want control.

micalith

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Quote from: Distraction on October 09, 2019, 09:43:39 AM

Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

I think it is not possible. In my opinion, governments will decide to make their own digital fiat money. Governments won't be willing to make their currency a volatile and uncontrollable cryptocurrency I think.

I agree with you. Governments will give up fiat money that we use now eventually. But I don't think that they will prefer a volatile cryptocurrency like Bitcoin as a local currency. They will prefer making a digital and manipulable coin. For example, North Korea is aiming this now.

Then I want to ask if we really believe in cryptocurrencies or not. Because, the idea of decentalization for me starts with bitcoin. If we don't think that we will not get decentralization, being here doesn't make much sense. As I said, this is a contradiction and we first need to overcome this in order to move on to the next one.

nasipadang

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Quote from: micalith on October 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Can we truly have a fully decentralized system? For example, we control our own money, properties, internet etc. If we can, how can we achieve this and what obstacles can we face? I want to control my money and I don't want my government to control what I see on the internet. There are ways of overcoming some of these but the whole internet is coming from the ISPs. We may have a satellite(Elon Musk) for internet which makes the decentralization easier for us.

It can be if you really emphasize the concept of anonymity in yourself. I prefer to think that if you are too decentralized it could endanger yourself, the government needs our information to protect us from some interference. So far we live in a country and why there must be regulations because to protect some citizens' rights.

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