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Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 62. (Read 288375 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 10:07:15 AM
Yes, Zeitgeist is communism in another skin. Adding computers and robots does not make a planned economy work.

Actually the idea of "machines doing all the work" wouldn't be a too alien idea to the people leading the industrial revolution. The machines are indeed doing almost all of it now if you take into account what "work" meant back then.

It's not "robots do all the work" that's the issue here. It's the "AI plans the economy" that causes me to worry. AI in general gives me the heebie-jeebies, putting one in charge of the economy just terrifies me. Maybe it would work. For a while. Until the AI got it into it's head that humans were mucking up it's smooth flow of goods... More likely, like any previous attempt at central planning, it will fail utterly.

Let the market decide the prices of goods and services, and the prices will decide what gets produced.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
November 08, 2012, 09:56:51 AM
Reminds me of the Green Day song Armitage Shanks...  Roll Eyes
Or any black metal.  I can relate!   Cheesy
But, as imperfect as humanity may be, it CAN be viewed as a step toward something much better.  Would you rather advance directly to that step, or start all over again?  I know, i know -- it doesn't matter to any single individual... But apparently it does.
Indeed it does for some people.  I was just asking why.  Why would anyone worry if humanity doesn't exist in one thousand years?   Carpe diem

Quote
Are you familiar with Tipler's Omega Point Theory?

Not at all.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
November 08, 2012, 09:55:22 AM
Yes, Zeitgeist is communism in another skin. Adding computers and robots does not make a planned economy work.

Actually the idea of "machines doing all the work" wouldn't be a too alien idea to the people leading the industrial revolution. The machines are indeed doing almost all of it now if you take into account what "work" meant back then.

Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant idea, why don't we let children learn whatever the hell they want and form their own opinions instead of force feed them bullshit from either side? Because I've got to tell you, I've been on the receiving end of that and it's exceptionally unpleasant when morons tell you to learn something or accept it without giving any reasoning behind it.

Yeah, THERE is a sure-fire way to destroy society...
Let's produce a generation of people whose skills completely do not match societies demand.
You're reasoning from a very privileged position. Not all humans on earth can do just what they like because the whole thing would collapse.
It is not something you could do without brutal consequences.

You lose specialized people and gain people who can in fact think. I don't know what the consequences would be though.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 09:54:22 AM

Adding "techno-" to a failed system does not magically make it work.


Isn't this sort of what Washington and those colonial fruits did with the democracy of the ancient greeks/romans?  But I'll give this to you:  If that's the case, it sure is NOT very reassuring.

Essentially, yes. And we continue to throw technology at democracy even today. I never said democracy wasn't a failed system. Wink After all, it's based on a logical fallacy.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
November 08, 2012, 09:48:27 AM
Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant idea, why don't we let children learn whatever the hell they want and form their own opinions instead of force feed them bullshit from either side? Because I've got to tell you, I've been on the receiving end of that and it's exceptionally unpleasant when morons tell you to learn something or accept it without giving any reasoning behind it.

Yeah, THERE is a sure-fire way to destroy society...
Let's produce a generation of people whose skills completely do not match societies demand.
You're reasoning from a very privileged position. Not all humans on earth can do just what they like because the whole thing would collapse.
It is not something you could do without brutal consequences.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 09:47:05 AM
Does this not sound like Zeitgeist? "a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals."

Does this? "a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production."

Yes, Zeitgeist is communism in another skin. Adding computers and robots does not make a planned economy work.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
November 08, 2012, 09:41:10 AM
Also:  ZGM IS NOT ANYTHING LIKE COMMUNISM!!!!!!!
Can you hear me now?

Other than your short and overly general pointer to your seemingly closed-off part of your brain that equates ZGM with communism (displayed in your comment above), I would ask that you please give some specific reasons / comparisons showing exactly how ZGM resembles communism?  Please; there may be something I have not considered.

It's a type of Communism, by the definition of Communism. Technically, if there will be a State, it's not exactly full Communism but transitional Communism, or if the State is there to stay, it's a type of Socialism that is actually not Communism. No further argument is necessary, you can check out the definitions yourself (preferably from a reputable source) and present your objections.

Marxism is about creating an economy based on science instead of political ideologies and social classes, which would remove inequality and create superabundance (i.e. end of scarcity) which will in turn remove the need for money and finally the State.

Now tell me where ZG differs, and which technological advance have changed this picture. If these people want to be taken seriously, they need to stop distancing themselves from communism and work with Marxist academics to solve problems of Marxism with the technology and science they obviously are so competent with.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
November 08, 2012, 09:40:52 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...

Which stuff, and how so?  Seriously, I am honestly curious, because I am learning.

Austrian Economics runs counter to Communism, and explains why it fails.

Yeah as I stated earlier, I firmly do not believe ZGM is communism.  It shares some seemingly common characteristics, but the main difference between the two is the ZGM (more specificly, the Venus Project) using much more advanced technology than anything available during Marx's time (all the way up to the 1990s).
I've said this before in other threads, but I'll say it again here:  The technological concept instantiated by Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies is so novel and unlike anything else the human race has ever seen, that its existence will facilitate massive transformations never experienced before in human history.

I hope you know the Venus Movement failed because of human social bonds.
Technology is not a solution because people work in certain ways. You cannot have these kinds of communities in a socially balanced way. It's a psychological problem.

Your theories about the significance of bitcoin in society are completely unrealistical. Bitcoin doesn't change the world, people do. And i don't think most people want to change that much.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
November 08, 2012, 09:35:02 AM

But thinking that the world population will just ignore their animal drives to get something like a resource based economy going is ludicrous.
You will not be able to get there (and i also said this before) without genetically modifying the entire human species to not be so damn human anymore.


Precisely.  Humans are obsolete.  Thanks for your clarifications.

That is not for humans to decide, i'm afraid...
But in case of RBE i can say that the whole idea does not fit humanity well.


Just curious as to how you came across that bolded tidbit of alleged knowledge there?

I came across it by taking a long hard look at the realityies of human existance.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
November 08, 2012, 09:26:44 AM

Adding "techno-" to a failed system does not magically make it work.


Isn't this sort of what Washington and those colonial fruits did with the democracy of the ancient greeks/romans?  But I'll give this to you:  If that's the case, it sure is NOT very reassuring.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
November 08, 2012, 09:23:27 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...

Which stuff, and how so?  Seriously, I am honestly curious, because I am learning.

Austrian Economics runs counter to Communism, and explains why it fails.

Yeah as I stated earlier, I firmly do not believe ZGM is communism.  It shares some seemingly common characteristics, but the main difference between the two is the ZGM (more specificly, the Venus Project) using much more advanced technology than anything available during Marx's time (all the way up to the 1990s).
Adding "techno-" to a failed system does not magically make it work.

I've said this before in other threads, but I'll say it again here:  The technological concept instantiated by Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies is so novel and unlike anything else the human race has ever seen, that its existence will facilitate massive transformations never experienced before in human history.
Yes, but It's not going to do away with money.

Quick reading does not beget sound understanding.
That said, I'll remind you:  It is not my personal goal to "do away with money".  I don't even think that's what we're talking about here.  This is actually one point where I would sharply disagree with most ZGers, and all hippies (shudder... hippies)
Also:  ZGM IS NOT ANYTHING LIKE COMMUNISM!!!!!!!
Can you hear me now?

Other than your short and overly general pointer to your seemingly closed-off part of your brain that equates ZGM with communism (displayed in your comment above), I would ask that you please give some specific reasons / comparisons showing exactly how ZGM resembles communism?  Please; there may be something I have not considered.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 09:15:59 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...

Which stuff, and how so?  Seriously, I am honestly curious, because I am learning.

Austrian Economics runs counter to Communism, and explains why it fails.

Yeah as I stated earlier, I firmly do not believe ZGM is communism.  It shares some seemingly common characteristics, but the main difference between the two is the ZGM (more specificly, the Venus Project) using much more advanced technology than anything available during Marx's time (all the way up to the 1990s).
Adding "techno-" to a failed system does not magically make it work.

I've said this before in other threads, but I'll say it again here:  The technological concept instantiated by Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies is so novel and unlike anything else the human race has ever seen, that its existence will facilitate massive transformations never experienced before in human history.
Yes, but It's not going to do away with money.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
November 08, 2012, 09:06:24 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...

Which stuff, and how so?  Seriously, I am honestly curious, because I am learning.

Austrian Economics runs counter to Communism, and explains why it fails.

Yeah as I stated earlier, I firmly do not believe ZGM is communism.  It shares some seemingly common characteristics, but the main difference between the two is the ZGM (more specificly, the Venus Project) using much more advanced technology than anything available during Marx's time (all the way up to the 1990s).
I've said this before in other threads, but I'll say it again here:  The technological concept instantiated by Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies is so novel and unlike anything else the human race has ever seen, that its existence will facilitate massive transformations never experienced before in human history.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 08:54:40 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...

Which stuff, and how so?  Seriously, I am honestly curious, because I am learning.

Austrian Economics runs counter to Communism, and explains why it fails.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
November 08, 2012, 08:47:17 AM
Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant idea, why don't we let children learn whatever the hell they want and form their own opinions instead of force feed them bullshit from either side? Because I've got to tell you, I've been on the receiving end of that and it's exceptionally unpleasant when morons tell you to learn something or accept it without giving any reasoning behind it.

Came here to say something along these lines. Actually that's what I had in mind while mentioning Bakunin.

While at it, you can think about removing the labels, categories and duties of people involved with learning, and ultimately get rid of the stigma surrounding "education" altogether.


Very interesting, thank you.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
November 08, 2012, 08:45:27 AM
Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant idea, why don't we let children learn whatever the hell they want and form their own opinions instead of force feed them bullshit from either side?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

After having to deal with the stupidity of conventional schooling yep, this is exactly what I do now and it's amazing how much I've learned in the last couple of years compared to the several years I was in school.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
November 08, 2012, 08:44:09 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...

Which stuff, and how so?  Seriously, I am honestly curious, because I am learning.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 08:40:32 AM
Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant idea, why don't we let children learn whatever the hell they want and form their own opinions instead of force feed them bullshit from either side?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
November 08, 2012, 08:38:37 AM
Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant idea, why don't we let children learn whatever the hell they want and form their own opinions instead of force feed them bullshit from either side? Because I've got to tell you, I've been on the receiving end of that and it's exceptionally unpleasant when morons tell you to learn something or accept it without giving any reasoning behind it.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
November 08, 2012, 08:32:19 AM
You seem to be looking for specifics -- One is teaching real economic alternatives such as the Austrian School.

Which is funny, since it runs directly opposite to the rest of the stuff you've mentioned...
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