Topic: A sneak peak at the future of Bitcoin Cold Storage - page 7. (Read 13526 times)

This looks really cool 

Great work!

Thanks!

I'm working on the software, which is turning out to be the hardest part. Indeed I'm thinking to maybe approach other people about integrating it into their products, as software dev isn't my strong point and I need to outsource it. Otherwise perhaps I will seek some sort of investment to handle this part. The tech inside is standard NFC so theoretically you could buy one and repurpose it for anything.

Something I had thought about was an "escape transaction": something like a transaction you pre sign in advance that transfers everything to another address in event something goes wrong. These devices are storing your private keys only, so theoretically you could sign a transaction to another address, an address that does not yet exist on the blockchain for example, and keep track of that private key separately. The escape transaction is worthless without having the receiving private key so it could be kept around in a less secure environment, (or encrypted online) as a fail-safe. Not sure yet.

I'm looking forward to see what people think about it!

Im really liking this. no one will casually toss it out when going through ones estate.

reminds be of the data storage crystals from babylon 5.

a question, and probably a stupid one at that. its one time use and user programmable (right?) and one is not able to check the key without destroying it.  so when programming it is there a checksum or md5 or whatever to verify it took the key? sure would suck to transfer a fortune to it and have it wrong.

Indeed it can, although it should be used with multi-sig meaning that you can spread access to your bitcoin across as many devices as you think is feasible to protect, thus protecting you from breaking, losing or having a device stolen. If it's 2 of 3 for example- you can keep one at home, one in a safe deposit box and one with a lawyer. In the event you die in a house fire (lets hope not) your lawyer could still ask the court to open your safe deposit box, and with his own device, get access to your bitcoin to distribute to your estate.

The device really isn't intended in this incarnation to be something you carry around with you or trade with friends. Maybe a future device, but this one is for long term planning.

Well this is a physical storage, it can be lost, broken, or stolen, but I guess that will be the owner's worries

No it does not. But I don't think someone would really want something like that. If you can track it, (a la iphone "find my phone") then the government/hackers/anyone could track it. Rich people don't exactly put their gold in a box and then transmit it's location so it's easy to find. Even if it is stored in a bank, they still keep that information secret.

One of the purposes behind this device is privacy. You store your own bitcoin, yourself. It simplifies this process, but it lets you have control over it. You don't have to trust anyone else to use it.

Does it have a tracker function? It would suck if someone loses it, I've lost my wallets before (actual wallets)

I'm not sure if I will go the "all-out" mass production route when it's ready. Mass production would reduce the non-counterfeitable properties of the devices by making the manufacturing process a little bit too similar between units. There will always be small differences that could be used to tell your device apart, but it's important that they aren't TOO small to be clearly noticed. In the current design there is a manufacturing 'flaw' that works as non-forgable fingerprint of each device. Mass production would all but eliminate this.

Also, I'm not sure if I want to go that route anyway. I work in the luxury sector for my day job as is, and there are a lot of exciting touches you can add to things in a bespoke way. But lets see!

Have you thought of mass producing it when it is ready ?

It doesn't need to be cheap. This device, in my mind, is for people storing more wealth than they can afford to lose.

In that light, a price range of $100-$200 each would seem reasonable from my perspective. Is that in the ballpark of what you were thinking of?

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/k8LqlMzEe-I/maxresdefault.jpg

Almost Human's version. Before I really knew what bitcoin was, I saw this episode where they used this device, scanned it and were able to see how much bitcoin the owner had in his account.

 

That is the same situation as your USB key however. In this case however, you are actually giving a copy of your data to the NSA to try and crack. Not everyone has strong passwords (very few people do) and not everyone is good at not reusing passwords, and then you still need to backup that password as well. You're not going to google drive that as well, right? So what does a regular person do- write it down? On a piece of paper? And then put that where? And inform their next of kin of it's existence how?  It's entirely doable for some people, but not all people, and this product is for them.

Not to mention, 2FA for google is a smart idea, but what do you do in the event you are in a car crash that has left you in a coma and your phone with Google authenticator destoryed? Now you're wife is looking at you in the hospital bed trying to convince google of what- that they should give her access to your Google drive?

I'm not saying it's not possible, or realistic or doable, just that when bitcoin gets to regular people, it becomes more complicated. For most people that use "1234" as their password, AES encryption and storing it on servers they don't control, isn't exactly a solution. (Or it's a solution just until Google gets hacked, sold, or malware sniffs it.)

This is a KISS product. Keeping it simple. :-)

all u need to do is AES 256 encrypt the private key and store the encrypted data on your google drive

Well it's better then a USB stick for a number of reasons, although it's not as multi-purpose as a USB stick. For one, to access your bitcoin, you have to destroy the device, meaning that it's one time use only. With my device you can be sure if you put it in your safe deposit box, and come back to it in 5 years, if it's still there and in one piece, then no one has accessed it without your knowledge. The same can't be said of the USB stick.

Also, once you lock the device, it is unchangable. Meaning that in 5 years time if your device is still intact, you know the data is also unchanged. The devices are also very, very, difficult to counterfeit in the details, so if you keep track of how the unique characteristics of the device look, you also know, within relative certainty that your device has not been substituted with a different device. You can't say that either of a USB stick. It's also very hard to say that of a paper backup. Yes you can encrypt your paper backups, but then you need to backup the password of your backup and now you have two things to keep track of. With this device, the idea is it's all self contained. You need only keep track of this device to secure your bitcoin.

Additionally with new NFC technology, you can be certain that the chip inside is exactly your chip- it has a unique authenticity signature, non-clonable, and most usefully, an access counter. Meaning that if your device has been scanned 5 times at the time you put it into your safe deposit box, and after 5 years you scan it an it says it's been scanned 6 times, then you know someone has illicitly gained access to it (edit: ATTEMPTED to gain access).

The idea is that it's a long term storage device. You set it, (multiple ones for multi-sig) and then you put it somewhere safe and you don't have to worry about it. My bank for example has some very specific terms governing the insurance on their safe deposit boxes and this device could help you set your terms regarding insurance if someone were to access your box.

Most the technological advantages of the device are available from the NFC chip right out of the box (access counter, etc...) but combined with a nearly non-counterfietable, secure device and it's a rather novel solution. The idea of making it an expensive, somewhat luxury device is intended to appeal to users who are looking for something a bit upmarket to hold their money, and something that can stand the test of time somewhat better. When I thought of making an expensive, aesthetic device it was with an eye towards a situation myself where my early bit address QR codes got thrown out as they were mistaken for trash. This wouldn't be mistaken for trash, even by someone who has never heard of bitcoin. It's also unique from anything else a person might have in their normal life. I have a pile of USB sticks in front of me for example, and I've never been so careful as to label them with what is on it. The price of the device, it's uniqueness and it's valuableness will serve to help users protect and care for their bitcoin in ways that are a bit easier to keep track of in normal life.

In short, protecting your passwords and bitcoin is quite difficult for regular people, and to be done comprehensively needs specific training and procedures to ensure the integrity of your secrets. It's not really quite as simple as saving them on a USB stick.

That said however, if you're the type of person that can handle your security on your own, and you don't have any people in your life who know nothing about security who might need to access your bitcoin to pay for your medical care in the case where you get into a car crash and are in a coma, then yes- USB sticks could probably work just fine for you. But with this device you could give one to your lawyer, one to your wife and one in a safe deposit box- and assuming your Lawyer and Wife don't gang up on you, you can rest fairly sure your bitcoin are safe. Indeed, even if you wife and Lawyer gang up on you, in a court of law you could prove they did it simply by demanding they produce the device intact- which if they did gang up on you, it would be impossible for them to do.

You can't say that about a USB stick.

But it's not for everyone. So lets see. Maybe down the line I'll make a more affordable version if it's possible.

I don't get how it works. I assume you will tell us in time but can you elucidate how it might be better than a usb stick?

Thanks! No price so far, they won't be inexpensive though as there is a lot that goes into them. Also, I am thinking to sell them in packs of 3 to encourage multi-sig use for them. But we will see how it goes! If I get a high volume the price could go down, but I also plan to sell them with nice packaging and special container to (hopefully) make them EMP proof during storage and unreadable by nefarious 3rd parties.

That is one sweet ass cold storage device.  Keep working on it, you got a price for that little thingy?

Actually I decided to stay away from any key generation myself. There are great utilities out there already and I don't want to reinvent the wheel with the possibility for error. Additionally it will work for any other cryptocurrency out there, as well as passwords themselves.

What about using a deterministic approach?
Random key pairs are more prone to random corruption and require backups regularly.

Sure! PM me! I'm trying to see if Andrea's Andorid wallet can be integrated so that you can save your backups directly into the device. :-)