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Topic: A4 Dominator - Pre-Order Group Buy - 280mh, roughly 1000w, $1800 + shipping - page 56. (Read 122577 times)

hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 504
Update on Oct 11th, 2016:

We've just updated our official webpages of A4 LTC Miners, with the fresh cooked video of our products.
Please go to http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/14.html
                  http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/15.html






Doesn't show the units in action. 

hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 508
Update on Oct 11th, 2016:

We've just updated our official webpages of A4 LTC Miners, with the fresh cooked video of our products.
Please go to http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/14.html
                  http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/15.html




hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 504

Why is it not possible to create a video of the unit(s) running for a couple of minutes with slow camera movements - showing with the case off?  Mining?  With a temperature probe?

I don't get it.

full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 108
Innosilicon ASIC official representative
So it's 8:32 am October 8th in Shenzhen, the extended holiday is over, so it'll be interesting to see what's next up on deck from Innosilicon.

I snipped this from an email I received earlier in the week from Innosilicon.

"One thing we should claim is that we have no authorized reseller worldwide. We are the exclusive brand of A4 chips as well as our A4 miners.
We can guarantee the quality of our products but not others."


Grabbing my popcorn and looking forward to the new countdown for October 15th!!!!

T-7.......

You bet!
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 108
Innosilicon ASIC official representative
T-5 days and counting.....

The web page for the A4 Dominator has been updated.
http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/14.html


The final form factor is now two separate units (140MH/unit) which use a common PSU.

Interesting that asicminermarket.com is selling a single unit @ 135MH with a longer warranty.
https://asicminermarket.com/product/pre-a4-135-scrypt-litecoin-miner-low-power-batch-1/

Both sellers have exactly the same control software, complete with misspellings.
https://asicminermarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/a4-Ltc-controlling-software.jpg



Let us make it very clear, at the moment, all units are under tight control from Innosilicon due to lack of ASIC supply so only Innosilicon order enjoys higher delivery priority period. Any promise from non-Innosilicon sources on lower price or shorter lead time should not be trusted. Time is everything.
member
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
T-5 days and counting.....

The web page for the A4 Dominator has been updated.
http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/14.html


The final form factor is now two separate units (140MH/unit) which use a common PSU.

Interesting that asicminermarket.com is selling a single unit @ 135MH with a longer warranty.
https://asicminermarket.com/product/pre-a4-135-scrypt-litecoin-miner-low-power-batch-1/

Both sellers have exactly the same control software, complete with misspellings.
https://asicminermarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/a4-Ltc-controlling-software.jpg

member
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
If we proceed with the assumption that the new 135MH miners at asicminermarket.com are real and legitimately for sale, couple that with the recent statement that Innosilicon says they are the exclusive WW reseller of the A4 Dominator, then this is most likely a completely new rig made with A4 ASICS by a completely different manufacturer.  That would be supported by the 180 day warranty (versus the A4 Dominator warranty of 45 days)
https://asicminermarket.com/product/pre-a4-135-scrypt-litecoin-miner-low-power-batch-1/

T-6 days until the A4 Dominator ships!!!
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 504
Well this is very interesting, Asicminermarket has a Youtube channel with 4 VIDEOS of the A4-135 in action posted 5 days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP-E1tvEw2KCGbAOillpLiQ/videos

FYI: They also have videos of many of the other miners they sell.

Their 'About Us' page says they're the China based business of BitcoinWare.net, which is Canada based.

I know nothing about either company, but this doesn't look like Vaporware.

How can one tell what is Vaporware and what is not?  I find it interesting that they spend maybe 18 to 22 seconds, recklessly taking a video of something with wires, making a sound and a screen with numbers on it.

Meanwhile, the legitimate products are very slow moving -- showing all the components slowly and are several minutes in length.

Honestly - anyone could put together a video with a pretty box, some fans, create a script that shows some numbers on a screen and then use a phone to video everything really quick.

Or perhaps they broke into Innosilicon and only had a minute to hurry and video the new machine in action?  HMMMM  Perhaps it is a rogue employee that plans to sell these on their own.  LOL  I dunno - but it is entertaining.



member
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
So it's 8:32 am October 8th in Shenzhen, the extended holiday is over, so it'll be interesting to see what's next up on deck from Innosilicon.

I snipped this from an email I received earlier in the week from Innosilicon.

"One thing we should claim is that we have no authorized reseller worldwide. We are the exclusive brand of A4 chips as well as our A4 miners.
We can guarantee the quality of our products but not others."


Grabbing my popcorn and looking forward to the new countdown for October 15th!!!!

T-7.......
member
Activity: 97
Merit: 10
Well this is very interesting, Asicminermarket has a Youtube channel with 4 VIDEOS of the A4-135 in action posted 5 days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP-E1tvEw2KCGbAOillpLiQ/videos

FYI: They also have videos of many of the other miners they sell.

Their 'About Us' page says they're the China based business of BitcoinWare.net, which is Canada based.

I know nothing about either company, but this doesn't look like Vaporware.
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 10
I have had bad experience with Alibaba. Actually the suppliers as Alibaba just connects buyer and sellers. Be very careful. I would not transact there again.

This forum being nice and open gives all the manufacturers access into our thinking. The reverse is not true. I would guarantee there is a pre-pre order. This is a business and manufacturers are out to make money.

I have no evidence but assume the A4's will be delivered. The conditions under which it will be is the difference.
member
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
So another A4 offering  (1/2 hashing power compared to Dominator) either from another partner buying chips and offering a new rig , or just a honey trap for hapless pre-order buyers.
https://asicminermarket.com/product/pre-a4-135-scrypt-litecoin-miner-low-power-batch-1/#reviews

Has anyone bought anything from these guys in the past i.e. do they have any credibility?

It's just a single unit of the modular design we saw on pgs 23 + 24. Good things are:
  • Proof of life - there's a photo of 3 units with their banner sitting atop (doesn't look photo-shopped in)
  • Specs in English
  • 180 Day Warranty with clear warranty terms
  • Free worldwide shipping

The price is fair if you consider that this is retail for a single unit. I would question one thing though. Does this include a Raspberry Pi for each unit and can you get a discount if you daisy chain 3 units per controller?

All the specs line up with what we know to date, i.e. each unit has 2 A4 boards with 20 chips apiece. The advertised Pre-order 280 MHs Dominator miner would be 2 of these units like the A2 Farmboy.

A4-135 Specifications:
1. Hash Rate: 135MH/s ±2%  <-- this is interesting? Inno said they were getting 'better' performance that expected. Really?
2. Power Consumption: 520w
3. Rated Voltage: 11.60 ~13.00V
4  Chip quantity per unit: 40x A4
5  Power connector: 6PIN 12V
6. Dimensions: 285mm(L)*130mm(W)*130mm(H)
7. Cooling: 1 fan
8. Operating Temperature: 0 °C to 40 °C
9. Network Connection: Ethernet
10. Default Frequency: 1200M

Starting to get a clear picture. Pitty we're piecing it together from re-sellers and not Inno themselves.


Question still remains - are they a credible reseller and has anyone bought from them previously or is this a honeytrap?
member
Activity: 97
Merit: 10
So another A4 offering  (1/2 hashing power compared to Dominator) either from another partner buying chips and offering a new rig , or just a honey trap for hapless pre-order buyers.
https://asicminermarket.com/product/pre-a4-135-scrypt-litecoin-miner-low-power-batch-1/#reviews

Has anyone bought anything from these guys in the past i.e. do they have any credibility?

It's just a single unit of the modular design we saw on pgs 23 + 24. Good things are:
  • Proof of life - there's a photo of 3 units with their banner sitting atop (doesn't look photo-shopped in)
  • Specs in English
  • 180 Day Warranty with clear warranty terms
  • Free worldwide shipping

The price is fair if you consider that this is retail for a single unit. I would question one thing though. Does this include a Raspberry Pi for each unit and can you get a discount if you daisy chain 3 units per controller?

All the specs line up with what we know to date, i.e. each unit has 2 A4 boards with 20 chips apiece. The advertised Pre-order 280 MHs Dominator miner would be 2 of these units like the A2 Farmboy.

A4-135 Specifications:
1. Hash Rate: 135MH/s ±2%  <-- this is interesting? Inno said they were getting 'better' performance that expected. Really?
2. Power Consumption: 520w
3. Rated Voltage: 11.60 ~13.00V
4  Chip quantity per unit: 40x A4
5  Power connector: 6PIN 12V
6. Dimensions: 285mm(L)*130mm(W)*130mm(H)
7. Cooling: 1 fan
8. Operating Temperature: 0 °C to 40 °C
9. Network Connection: Ethernet
10. Default Frequency: 1200M

Starting to get a clear picture. Pitty we're piecing it together from re-sellers and not Inno themselves.
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 2258
I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)
I have seen pics of spoondles with burned connectors. I have fixed AsicMiner blades that people had shorted the fuses on (oops). I have pried connectors off BFL Monarchs that were pulling <250w per plug. And I have chipped off wreckage from both Neptunes and Titans that were run at 60mh/s (240w).

I have also worked on units that were dusty, dirty, filthy, and buried in manure. I have worked on units that were run in closed rooms in 120 degree aussie heat in the summer down there.

If and when the connectors implode on these things (if they wind up making it to market) I'd be happy to take a look and see what's left.

Some key things to remember:

0) Miner designs suck. Show me ones with UL listing for example, or even proper fusing.
1) It's not watts that determine the ampacity of wire, it's amps.
2) Amps go up as voltage goes down. This is very important when you find your 12v supply is only putting 10v at the miner plug.
3) Voltage drop increases as heat increases
4) Over time connectors get soft. Then one of the six pins starts to get a higher resistance. More current flows through the remaining ones, making things warmer.
5) Begin feedback loop.

Now commercial miners can run plugs with big wires going to 3,000 watt power supplies that will not sag if there is a heavy load on them. Plugs will hold up better. That's nice. But that same 3,000 watt supply will not sag when a cap fails in the miner and it turns the cap into a pretty plasma ball. Or mining chip or via, or whatever. That gets very funny very quickly.

Your mileage may vary. I don't argue with people who know everything, that seems to be pretty common on forums. I prefer objective reality and letting things play out.

Once again I wonder if the signal lines are isolated on these. That's always fun.
member
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
So another A4 offering  (1/2 hashing power compared to Dominator) either from another partner buying chips and offering a new rig , or just a honey trap for hapless pre-order buyers.
https://asicminermarket.com/product/pre-a4-135-scrypt-litecoin-miner-low-power-batch-1/#reviews

Has anyone bought anything from these guys in the past i.e. do they have any credibility?
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 2258
I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)
Fast summary: The damage to the plugs is cumulative as well as catastrophic. One of the odd things about the Titans is that they are one of the few miners that have had an operating profit life greater than a few months :-)

I'll do a bigger write-up later, but it's a combo of things that can make the plugs melt. Positive feedback loop.
member
Activity: 97
Merit: 10
Ok, if these pics are real then I have some serious concerns about pumping 1100w through what appears to be 4 PCIE connectors!  That just is not going to work.

Also looks like they are getting 273mh from almost 1100w.  This means the Titans are clearly very competitive and the A4's will have nothing in this first batch on the Titans. 

I hope I am misreading the power and connector situation because those plugs are not designed to handle that kind of load.



 Worked fine pulling 288 Watts / connector (which is the spec for the CONNECTOR) on the Spondoolies SP20 - this will be pulling less than that and is well within the SPECIFIED LIMITS FOR THE CONNECTOR.


Thanks Quintleo, following up that lead, the 6Pin Molex 45559-0002 (Male) connector is rated at 8 or 9 amps per circuit depending on vendor, though most say 9A.
http://www.digipart.com/part/45559-0002

Across 3 circuits/pins, that would give 27A or 324W. 8A = 288W.

I'm feeling much happier now. Cheers
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
Ok, if these pics are real then I have some serious concerns about pumping 1100w through what appears to be 4 PCIE connectors!  That just is not going to work.

Also looks like they are getting 273mh from almost 1100w.  This means the Titans are clearly very competitive and the A4's will have nothing in this first batch on the Titans. 

I hope I am misreading the power and connector situation because those plugs are not designed to handle that kind of load.




 Worked fine pulling 288 Watts / connector (which is the spec for the CONNECTOR) on the Spondoolies SP20 - this will be pulling less than that and is well within the SPECIFIED LIMITS FOR THE CONNECTOR.

 You did NOT hear about issues related to the power connectors on the SP20 - and the internal software had power limiting at the 288 watt per connector level built in BECAUSE that was the connector spec.

 This is NOT pulling 300+ Watts per connector which is where certain KNC designs had issues with FIRES and burnt connections because they were EXCEEDING the connector ratings by a fair bit.



 The "75 watt" spec is a PCI-E SPECIFIC specification, not a CONNECTOR specification.


 With that said, I'm still finding the pricing listed on that site for several of the items to be a major red flag.

member
Activity: 97
Merit: 10
Well I guess I should start quoting prices to fix the burned PCIe plugs that are going to come from this.

Lightfoot, I'm quite concerned as well, but when you look at it, both the S7 and S9 Antminer have roughly the same draw per 6pin PCIe connector.

S7 = 1293W + 10% at the wall and the S9 is 1172W + 12% at the wall using Bitmain's APW3 PSU, possibly more for 80+ > Platinum. Dividing those numbers by 9 (3 cards with 3 connectors), you get about 140-150w per connector or twice the PCIe spec.

Do you have any insights into the failure rates of those miners? Is this something we should really be worried about?

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 517
Well I guess I should start quoting prices to fix the burned PCIe plugs that are going to come from this. .3btc per plug burned plus shipping should do it as long as they didn't put an insane amount of copper into the board underneath.

And if you're thinking just chip off the burned plastic and get back to mining, don't. Either you will plug in the miner wrong by mistake; blowing out everything on every line or the damaged and pitted pins will lift a ground resulting in complete hilarity or you will overheat a pin burning out the internal vias to the power planes, causing all sorts of havoc.

Now for the fun question: Did they put optoisolators on the signal lines to prevent the inevitable lifted grounds from causing ground to rip though either the hashing chips or the level converters? Time will tell....

C

Glad to have you here Lightfoot.  I am suspecting we may need your services after seeing how they did this with 2 6pin PCIE connectors per board and pulling 550w across the 4 plugs/connectors.  Now if we can get Gentarkin to join in on the fun maybe we will be able to keep the A4's alive as long as you guys have managed to keep the Titan's going!  Going to be interesting to see what happens with these new miners.
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