[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] - page 501.

somestranger

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Are You Shpongled?

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 22, 2013, 10:02:34 AM

Following numbers are a bit worrisome:

Quote

and there is another August sales number : $330,000
I assume this is revenue
Revenue: 330000?
Cost of goods sold: 240031 ?
Profit: 89969?

This only a 27.26% gross margin or 37.48% Mark Up. I personally hope, this is some type of anomaly and official reports, Ken has promised to publish soon, will clear this up for good. If those are correct numbers, my calculations show that Gh cost is somewhere between 6-8 USD.
I hope I am wrong.

I think that the 27% is a net margin taking into account engineering costs, Ken's salary, employee salaries, fixed costs, etc. Otherwise it does seem quite low... $6-8/GH is really pricy and I doubt one chip is costing $100. I think $2/GH is more reasonable, but of course that is under NDA for now. It would be nice if Ken would take some time to answer the pertinent questions appearing in this thread, and also culling some of the bullshit posts from users such as Crumbs.

EskimoBob

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VolanicEruptor, get your terminology straight, so you can start making sense. Kiss

Ken, as you can see, this thread is getting out of control again.

zefyr0s

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Aye, sometimes though it's hard not to respond defensively on the internet when you feel strongly you are correct, or strongly about the argument. Especially so if you're arguing for similar sides of an argument or making the same points.

VolanicEruptor

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Quote from: zefyr0s on September 22, 2013, 10:57:17 AM

I think it's a bit of misunderstanding bob. He means (and its as you said not as high as .0025 as there were different prices) that the amount in profit that we need to make has to be equal to the amount of money made by selling the initial shares at their respective IPO prices. That's the point at which the amount of dividends given out will equal the amount the shares were initially paid for. I could be wrong here, though.

That's exactly what I said, numerous times..

zefyr0s

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I think it's a bit of misunderstanding bob. He means (and its as you said not as high as .0025 as there were different prices) that the amount in profit that we need to make has to be equal to the amount of money made by selling the initial shares at their respective IPO prices. That's the point at which the amount of dividends given out will equal the amount the shares were initially paid for. I could be wrong here, though.

VolanicEruptor

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"Market capitalization (or market cap) is the total value of the issued shares of a publicly traded company; it is equal to the share price times the number of shares outstanding"

So how does this NOT have anything to do with 3.25 million dollars?
I needed to calculate the total market cap at IPO price before I could arrive at that number (as most of us here jumped in at .0025).. If I didn't, then I would have never come up with with 3.25 million dollars.

Now for the biggest question.. Eskimobob, are you high?

EskimoBob

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 09:12:43 AM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 22, 2013, 07:47:12 AM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 05:28:30 AM

All I see is that you're puking out arbitrary numbers and low sales figures... you didn't even make a point. 3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share, and we're not even close to that because Ken is incompetent. Plain and simple.

I think you need to get yourself a dictionary and look up what "arbitrary" means.

Those sales figures are published in Actm threads and by Ken.
Do you want me to make them look better? What font colour do you prefer?

Also, I am still unclear wtf are you so hell-bent on that market cap - share price times the number of shares outstanding
Are you trying to say that share price needs to climb back to 0.0025? Please elaborate because you make no sense and I am sure this is just a problem with semantics.

For ken to pay us .0025 in dividends, 25000 BTC needs to be made. This is about 3.25 million dollars. Simple math.

Correct, and it has NOTHING to do with market capitalization aka market cap.

Following numbers are a bit worrisome:

Quote

and there is another August sales number : $330,000
I assume this is revenue
Revenue: 330000?
Cost of goods sold: 240031 ?
Profit: 89969?

This only a 27.26% gross margin or 37.48% Mark Up. I personally hope, this is some type of anomaly and official reports, Ken has promised to publish soon, will clear this up for good. If those are correct numbers, my calculations show that Gh cost is somewhere between 6-8 USD.
I hope I am wrong.

VolanicEruptor

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Quote from: EskimoBob on September 22, 2013, 07:47:12 AM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 05:28:30 AM

All I see is that you're puking out arbitrary numbers and low sales figures... you didn't even make a point. 3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share, and we're not even close to that because Ken is incompetent. Plain and simple.

I think you need to get yourself a dictionary and look up what "arbitrary" means.

Those sales figures are published in Actm threads and by Ken.
Do you want me to make them look better? What font colour do you prefer?

Also, I am still unclear wtf are you so hell-bent on that market cap - share price times the number of shares outstanding
Are you trying to say that share price needs to climb back to 0.0025? Please elaborate because you make no sense and I am sure this is just a problem with semantics.

For ken to pay us .0025 in dividends, 25000 BTC needs to be made. This is about 3.25 million dollars. Simple math.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 05:28:30 AM

All I see is that you're puking out arbitrary numbers and low sales figures... you didn't even make a point. 3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share, and we're not even close to that because Ken is incompetent. Plain and simple.

I think you need to get yourself a dictionary and look up what "arbitrary" means.

Those sales figures are published in Actm threads and by Ken.
Do you want me to make them look better? What font colour do you prefer?

Also, I am still unclear wtf are you so hell-bent on that market cap - share price times the number of shares outstanding
Are you trying to say that share price needs to climb back to 0.0025? Please elaborate because you make no sense and I am sure this is just a problem with semantics.

VolanicEruptor

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Quote from: RoadStress on September 22, 2013, 06:50:07 AM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 05:28:30 AM

All I see is that you're puking out arbitrary numbers and low sales figures... you didn't even make a point. 3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share, and we're not even close to that because Ken is incompetent. Plain and simple.

So you realize this now? I thought you were praising and defending Ken while others questioned him.

I still praise the 28nm eASIC chip technology, and I am blown away by the amazing potential of VMC. However, put a monkey behind the wheel of a Ferrari and you're still going to have a disaster. The performance of said Ferrari is limited by what this monkey can do, and right now all he's doing is throwing his poop at those who gave him the car loan.
If this monkey learns how to make this Ferrari scream down the Blockchain highway, then maybe we stand a chance. But.. it's only a monkey. Sad

Puppet

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 05:28:30 AM

3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share

Only if all the IPO money would actually have been spent.

RoadStress

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 05:28:30 AM

All I see is that you're puking out arbitrary numbers and low sales figures... you didn't even make a point. 3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share, and we're not even close to that because Ken is incompetent. Plain and simple.

So you realize this now? I thought you were praising and defending Ken while others questioned him.

VolanicEruptor

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All I see is that you're puking out arbitrary numbers and low sales figures... you didn't even make a point. 3.25 million market cap is more important than anything, because we need that same amount to earn .0025/share, and we're not even close to that because Ken is incompetent. Plain and simple.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 22, 2013, 01:45:19 AM

...............

.0025BTC x 10,000,000

=3.25 million dollar market capitalization at .0025 .. we need this profit to actually earn .0025

Market cap is irrelevant at the moment.
Do you know how much coin in total was raised via sell of shares?

EDIT2:
1) Can we estimate, that ~7685 BTC was from btct.co Activemining placement?
2) bitfunder AMC+Activemining:

EDIT1:
Is it correct to say, that at the moment Actm has 6898797+3074084=9972881 shares outstanding.
15027119 shares are held as treasury stock for now but will be transferred to management (founders?) when total of 0.0025 dividends area paid to holders of 10M shares.
We also know, that Actm hold at least 1400 BTC (Avalon refund)
and mines with 6 Avalon miners, currently running on BTC Guild under "Team AMC" for around 415 GH/s;

July ~~Sales~~ later corrected as profit form sales:
Total $20,495.00
Average $661.13/Day

August ~~Sales~~ later corrected as profit form sales :
Total $89,969
Average $2,902.23

and there is another August sales number : $330,000?
I assume this is revenue
Revenue: 330000?
Cost of goods sold: 240031 ?
Profit: 89969?

VolanicEruptor

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Quote from: EskimoBob on September 22, 2013, 01:35:10 AM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 21, 2013, 01:08:39 PM

I've also realized how putting up 2 selling walls kind of fucked us.
Not all shares were sold at .0025. Most of them were given at .0005
We need 3.25 million in profit to pay us off, but we have invested not even half of that. This was kind of a way to artificially inflate the share price and make it harder to earn .0025/share.

In a perfect shareholder utopia, everyone would have paid the same price, so that the $ needed to pay off IPO price EQUALS the $ originally invested.. this way we would only have to make our original investment back to break even instead of needing 250%.

If we are needing $3.25 million to pay off .0025/share, then we should have invested 3.25 million in the first place.. now the .0025 shareholders have to earn three times as much of their investment just to break even, due to buying an overvalued .0025 IPO

Look at it this way, the true "break-even" profit will always be 10,000,000 * IPO, however in our case the IPO does not = .0025. Instead the IPO is averaged out between .0025 and .0005. This puts the break-even profit point much lower than .0025.

I will lay this out on a spreadsheet to make it more clear

Where did this We need 3.25 million in profit to pay us off come form?

Quote

IPO is averaged out between .0025 and .0005.

Or in other words, 'coin raised'/'number of outstanding shares'.

Do any of you recall, how much coin in total was raised via sell of shares?

.0025BTC x 10,000,000

=3.25 million dollar market capitalization at .0025 .. we need this profit to actually earn .0025

EskimoBob

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 21, 2013, 01:08:39 PM

I've also realized how putting up 2 selling walls kind of fucked us.
Not all shares were sold at .0025. Most of them were given at .0005
We need 3.25 million in profit to pay us off, but we have invested not even half of that. This was kind of a way to artificially inflate the share price and make it harder to earn .0025/share.

In a perfect shareholder utopia, everyone would have paid the same price, so that the $ needed to pay off IPO price EQUALS the $ originally invested.. this way we would only have to make our original investment back to break even instead of needing 250%.

If we are needing $3.25 million to pay off .0025/share, then we should have invested 3.25 million in the first place.. now the .0025 shareholders have to earn three times as much of their investment just to break even, due to buying an overvalued .0025 IPO

Look at it this way, the true "break-even" profit will always be 10,000,000 * IPO, however in our case the IPO does not = .0025. Instead the IPO is averaged out between .0025 and .0005. This puts the break-even profit point much lower than .0025.

I will lay this out on a spreadsheet to make it more clear

Where did this We need 3.25 million in profit to pay us off come form?

Quote

IPO is averaged out between .0025 and .0005.

Or in other words, 'coin raised'/'number of outstanding shares'.

Do any of you recall, how much coin in total was raised via sell of shares?

Vbs

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Puppet

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Quote from: Puppet on September 21, 2013, 07:19:29 AM

Who is doing the PCB and software ? How far along is that?

bump

jinyoubei

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Thanks.

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 21, 2013, 02:14:23 PM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 21, 2013, 02:11:30 PM

Quote from: jinyoubei on September 21, 2013, 01:58:27 PM

@VolanicEruptor I think you forget the mining profit, which will be not bad if ActM keeps a certian mount of percentage, say %5.

Say that the total costs for high volume production and assembly is $2/GH.
At this rate, total network come Dec 1st will be about 5,000TH/S.
To hold 5% of the network short-term, this would require 250TH/S.
This mining farm would require a production/assembly cost of $500,000.
Not sure how much Ken is planning on putting into the mining farm, but it must be much less than this.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3203773

EskimoBob

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Quote from: VolanicEruptor on September 21, 2013, 02:11:30 PM

Quote from: jinyoubei on September 21, 2013, 01:58:27 PM

@VolanicEruptor I think you forget the mining profit, which will be not bad if ActM keeps a certian mount of percentage, say %5.

Say that the total costs for high volume production and assembly is $2/GH.
At this rate, total network come Dec 1st will be about 5,000TH/S.
To hold 5% of the network short-term, this would require 250TH/S.
This mining farm would require a production/assembly cost of $500,000.
Not sure how much Ken is planning on putting into the mining farm, but it must be much less than this.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3203773

Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] - page 501. (Read 771288 times)