Topic: ACTUAL Butterfly Labs PCB pics! - page 2. (Read 40283 times)

He had about 900 orders as of about 2 1/2 weeks ago. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1292414

However, I think BFL has a lot more than 600-700 orders. That would mean that only 1 in 20 orders actually got paid. I'm thinking it's 4-5x that amount. About a month ago, they said there were upwards of 100TH/s in pre-orders.

How many units on preorder does Tom have?

Then I am deeply confused....

I thought I saw one representative say they had several hundred of each type. (Some post somewhere on BitcoinTalk or on their company forum (don't remember where).

I thought they were the biggest? If they only have 600 or 700 (or anywhere near that range) then why isn't Tom (of bASIC) considered the largest vendor? Hopefully someone can straighten me out as I have seemingly lost the plot and the narrative I kept seeing touted around....

Right.  This is due to curious people testing out the order button to see how many BTC they'd need to spend to make an order.  So people would try to time their order to the market and in the process they'd create 20 false orders.

Ah, ok.  Yes, very few of the orders are valid.  I would guess maybe 1,000 orders.  Just my personal opinion/hunch.

Oh goodness no. They have a preorder count of maybe 300 here on the forums, but they've noted before that total preorders are about double what we see here. Call it 600-700 orders, with the majority being Jalapenos and Singles.

And I know veerrryyy few people able to drop $30k on a dime for a Mini Rig. Out of the many thousands of BTC users, only a handful will be throwing down cash for them (including myself if my Fund raises the capital )

I ask, because it means that out of the 12,000 electronic orders...very few that are actually valid. I thought they were well into the 6,000 range. But looking over different combos, I find it hard to believe that there are many valid orders. I expected many mini-rigs to be sold since customer service stated most of their customers were supposedly not front bitcointalk.org or any other forums. (?)

Which is awesome news since it puts us right on track to meet my predictions from my October Analysis

The Little SC will be 4 chips (logically, since each chip produces 7.5GH/s, and they will be 30GH/s units).

But why are you asking this question?  Josh already stated that the 20k chips was more than enough to fulfill all current preorders (as of a couple of weeks ago)... so the existing orders are some combination of the above units, but not enough to use up 20k chips.

Well, You have a point I cannot refute LOL....you got me!

Edit: Note to self, ask Tom if he has life insurance.
Edit1: Note to self: Ask Team Avalon if they have any ongoing problems with Ninjas from overseas.

By the way, the first chip run for BFL is allegedly 20,000 chips.

20,000 ASIC chips can make

20k / 8 = 2,500 Single SC chips.
20k / ? = ?,??? Little SC chips.
20k / 1 = 20,000 Jalapenos.
20k / 200 = 100 Mini-rigs.

Those are the totals if a batch of 20,000 are divided above as if the batch were used exclusively for one type.

Question: How does one go about fulfilling 12,000 order ID's? Lets assume there are less than 6,000 valid orders. (no clue how many are multiple units in each order...so lets assume it makes up to 6,000 assorted units. Some will order several units while others only 1 unit.)

How does one go about fulfilling that many orders with only 20k ASIC chips? Anyone know how many chips will go into each little single SC?

It Tom gets hit by a bus, or ninja assassins take out Team Avalon, then it is game over. If BFL_Josh dies, we get to make jokes and then bug the company for our stuff. (No offense Josh, you would be missed by some at least!)

BIG difference. Even with outsourcing the risks around doing business with individuals and tiny groups is higher than when dealing with larger groups. Larger groups are more likely to continue in the face of adversity, which is one of the reasons for the rise of the corporation over the last 500 years. This is actually the case where the "corporate person-hood" thing we are dealing with is needed, that corporate person is obligated to you, no matter who owns/operates the corporation. (Free speech through unlimited campaign donations on the other hand seems to be a misapplication of the Bill of Rights)

+1

You paid them for something, and they acknowledged payment. It does not matter if the purchase was made with gold or Rare Purple Lego's (assuming both parties agree on the exchange rate), they are obligated to deliver or return you the same value in exchange. This does mean that the spot-rate will be used if you insist in payment in Rare Purple Lego's, so you won't get the same number, but they will be worth the same value when you get them.

Consumer protection (generally, not CC specific unless CC was used, etc.) applies, this is similar to why coupons have a "no cash value" clause.

What part of ANY was confusing here? They have stated this multiple times even if they have not answered the exact post you are looking for.

Like it or not, this is not a community project, it is a for-profit enterprise. As part of that equation you keep certain information to yourself to avoid giving the competition information that they can use to get an advantage on you. In the case of BFL many of the things that have been asked for get into that proprietary realm.

They have answered, they have INVESTORS that covered the initial costs, their investors don't get paid back if BFL fails. Legally that money is not theirs until they ship the product. If they went bust without shipping anything all the investors will be on the hook to refund all of us from a legal perspective.

If you have ever operated a business on a line of credit or flooring agreement you are already very familiar with these rules, because exceeding your cashflow can allow a company to go under because it is TO SUCCESSFUL for it's resources.

Once you get past a basic small business, it becomes a lot more about the reliable and predictable flow of money through the organization (paying rent, salaries, buying new materials, etc) than just making a profit in a single tactical action. BFL has shown by their actions that they are interested in the long game (at least a year or 2, likely more) and are playing by business rules, this obviously is not a scam in a garage so we need to apply the relevant standard.

bASIC and Avalon are a lot more like the hobbist type project with one or 2 critical folks doing everything, but I think BFL has graduated from that category into a real business. This is AWESOME news in my book, we need more businesses using Bitcoin and operating like businesses rather than cowboys, hopefully BFL will be an anchor for others. This is because (beyond a small scale) established business don't want to work with an individual, they want to work with another established business that they can rely on.

The payments to BFL in Bitcoins are automatically converted to USD through BitPay. BFL never sees a Bitcoin.

That said, the consumer protection laws would still apply since you're effectively paying in USD.

In Sandwich, IL, when a business mysteriously burns down while struggling financially, the cause is referred to as Albanian lightning.

Your questions are right to the point. Why accept preorders with full up-front payment if you're not in need of capital to produce whatever you're producing?


BFL never answered if this meant the first month of preorders or all of them. So there is a possibility not every penny is safe. After all, if they go belly-up, it's not their problem anymore. They tried and they failed.

I'm pretty sure that the costs associated with 65nm ASIC production could not be covered by their profits alone. They claim they received VC capital, but no additional information has been provided on this matter.

Edit: I want to point out that none of the ASIC manufacturers have shown a prototype, and all have taken full up-front payment for preorders. The only company that has been open about their progress is BlockErupter(Asicminer), but they've run aground with GLBSE now. Also, I'm not aware what is happening on the Avalon mailing list, but looking at Ngzhang's track-record, I'd be amazed if they were not open regarding their progress as well as the risks associated.

I hoped this whole ASIC transition would've been completely crowd-funded and designed as an open project, that would've made all of us miners share/stakeholders. I'm afraid we've become like the people that rushed to Klondike over a century ago and lost all of their money due to their greed.

Like in my country right now, our precious Lapland is being raped by greedy mining companies spilling uranium and nickel into our pure lakes. Corrupt officials stand passive and watch as our national heritage is ruined for a fistful of dollars. Sad times.

Question:

If you are paid in BTC (virtual funds), are any consumer protection laws even applicable for a cryptocurrency?

I know it is a question out of left field, and I am not implying anything, but we should start a thread to discuss what can be enforced if you use a cryptocurrency.

This one stuck out for me. Given the BitCoin community they guaranteed their orders in a way that a deposit would not have done. At the very least they would be having issues with all the folks planning on completing their purchases with Pirate backed income.

It's also a good thing for the shipping and cashflow, no questions as to when they get access to the money for each unit (when they ship), and there is no drama about the guy who SHOULD have been in the first group but could not complete the purchase in time.

Honestly all the solutions are messy, but I think theirs is about the least complicated.