Topic: [AEON] Aeon Speculation - page 82. (Read 190206 times)

 
  
I hear you - excellent point.  Status and luxury don't take time to explain themselves, just like that shiny little Apple doesn't take time to explain itself.  Just as Satoshi once famously said,  
  
 
  
And I think if we keep working with this concept, we can have exactly what you are saying: something that can be vector-ized so that it is even recognizable at 16x16.  I would like to see a square based version of this too, just like smooth was saying.  

 
  

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[Off-topic addition] Soundtrack for this evening - https://youtu.be/5hEh9LiSzow

I do remember it. Now take a look at it's logo.

That's my point.

No worries, Smooth. I'll post some more logo concepts based on other shapes and fonts within a day or two.

The contribution is certainly appreciated. My comments were intended to suggest directions to explore, not to insult or discourage. Hopefully that comes across.

 
  
Constructive criticism is interest, and a good thing (especially coming from smooth).  Go with it, and don't let your ego cloud the way.  You're really onto something good here, even if it takes some more work.  What you're doing is very important, and I say that with no sarcasm or satire.  

 
  
The truth is frequently uncomfortable, especially when we are faced with our animal nature laid out so bare.  The human brain does a great job explaining to itself all day why it's special, and it really doesn't like being reminded that its a few bits and pieces away from being a dumb beast with only selfish instincts to go on.  
  
I am a man.  When I see another guy with a better body, an amazing suit, incredible car, and women draped across his arm several triggers go off in me.  Envy is certainly one.  Part of me wonders what he did to deserve so much while I struggle.  But another part of me also wonders what *I* need to do to get those things.  
  
Make no mistake, I am a big fan of charity and one of the altruistic reasons I am so big on cryptocurrency is that it will bring equal access to money to every member of our species.  As a young boy, I would have been a lost and damned soul without the infinite halls of the Internet to wander and learn in.  I understand how important equal opportunity is for all of us.  Everyone should have an equal chance to prove their worth, and thankfully the Internet and cryptocurrency will provide that.  
  
But I also am not blind to my animal nature.  Acknowledging the ego does not mean being a slave to it, and rest assured that others who are less conscious and intelligent than yourself will not reach such heights - but they will command vast sums of money, the same as they always have.  
  
From the way you type, you seem to be a girl, right?  Imagine my scenario, but a version for yourself using status symbols that you know would evoke similar reactions.  Remember, acknowledging our natures doesn't mean we are slaves to it.  But if we wish to design systems that the entire human race will use, we must understand the entire human race - not just the intellectually elite.  


 
  
This is equivalent to accusing the early Bitcoin pioneers of "pumping their worthless nerd bucks" when they tried to get people involved in Bitcoin.  Were some of them motivated by merely increasing the price of their tokens?  Possibly.  Is greater adoption and recognition synonymous with a higher price?  Unfortunately, yes.  I have both selfish and altrustic goals.  If I tell you that I have no desire for wealth, that's not true.  But I also know that this is another human factor we can rely on and exploit.  
  
No one is trying to ensnare anyone.  Aeon represents nothing except itself.  As smooth is fond of saying, "There is no spoon."  
  
Why does anyone purchase a Tiffany's diamond?  Diamonds aren't even naturally rare, and they are certainly quite worthless to the average person.  But we don't demonize the average person for desiring this status symbol.  I consider myself extremely intelligent, and I'll confess to you: as downright idiotic as I know it would be, if I had an excessive amount of wealth, my fiancee would get a diamond from Tiffany's.  Why?  Because I might be a very smart human, but I am still a human, and it's ok to indulge in a few innocent and base instincts occasionally when you take breaks from being on the 'bleeding edge' of our global consciousness.  

 
  
Do you remember this little thing?  For sure you do; I know I do -  
 
  
It was amazing.  It advanced the entire art of the smart phone.  It packaged together many concepts that already existed and innovated on top of a few.  Then it wrapped it all in very "luxurious" packaging.  
  
Don't think about how things are now.  Remember back to 2006 and 2007 when these things first came out.  They cost $600, and I used my entire paycheck to buy one.  
  
I admit, I really enjoyed the "oohs" and "ahhs" of my bosses and superiors at work as I trumped this thing out.  Everyone wanted to touch it.  Everyone desired it.  People looked at me differently for owning it.  In Russia, for a while, you didn't even dare be seen wearing the white iPhone earbuds for fear of being mugged.  
  
What's my point?  This little son-of-a-bitch eventually changed the world for the better.  Now smartphones and touch screens are ubiquitous and as a result of everyone having a computer in their pocket our civilization is growing and advancing faster than ever.  A lot of my posts on Reddit and Bitcointalk have been made on a device like this.  The key is, none of these concepts are exclusive.  
  
People can be involved in things for different reasons.  The original iPhone was simultaneously a status symbol, a marvel of new technology, and a ground breaking innovation that would eventually transform and advance our species.  People didn't have to choose a reason to participate - all were valid, and all advanced the movement.  
  
Aeon will be the same.  Some will be passionate about the cutting edge technology that is underneath the hood.  Some will love the fact that the Cryptonote protocol that backs Aeon (along with Aeon specific innovations) will eventually save lives and bring happiness to billions.  Some will want the status of owning these tokens.  And yes, some will just want to get rich.  
  
You can't help that.  That's human nature.  So we have to figure out how we want to exploit it, not fight it.  My objective?  All of the above.  I am here because I know that Cryptonote based currencies are the future, just like the moment I touched that shiny fucking iPhone I knew it was the future.  And despite being somewhat of an ass at times, I am also a philanthropist at heart.  I realize that these currencies will do amazing good for our world.  And the best part of all?  Like that kid in that movie about the gameshow, I realize that all my experiences in life have led me here to help with this and uniquely equipped me with the wisdom and knowledge necessary to make a difference.  For the first time in my life I don't just get to watch the future unravel in front of me, I get to participate in it.  
  
Now let's bring it full circle, because that's the ultimate status.  Reality is, we can't all be as smart as Nick Szabo.  We can't all orate as well as Andreas Antonopopotamus.  We can't all navigate the complex legal web necessary to bring something like Gemini into existence like the Winklevoss Twins.  
  
Here's the important part:  But we all still want to feel special, like we're going above and beyond.  Don't you think there's a lot of wealthy people out there who grapple with that fact every day?  That they might be wealthy, but they aren't the smartest, or the prettiest, or the strongest.  They grapple with their own mortality and desperately wish for a product, or icon, or something they can spend their money on to give their life meaning.  Well, in a world of hundreds of inferior mathematical systems (other cryptocurrencies) I can't think of a more worthy symbol than Aeon to fill this need.  Even by having this conversation we are establishing that Aeon is a digital token that represents the bleeding edge of human potential.    
  
And the good news is that because raging humanists like you and me are the early adopters here, as long as we don't lose sight of our extropian, philanthropic, and benevolent goals, perhaps we will be in a position to do some kick-ass-awesome-good-things one day.  
  
I'm here for the same reason you or anyone is: Aeon and Cryptonote are the future, and I think I can help.  I might get rich along the way, and if so, it will be an unfortunate side effect.  But others will come in time with the sole goal of getting rich or feeling special by owning Aeon and that will be fine too.  We can make use of all the talent and resources we can get.  

 
  
I'm so fired up from that sermon I just gave (I seriously should have done it in video form - maybe down the road) I can't even think about practical graphical design right now.  Smooth already tore it up, so I think I'll ruminate on it a little and come back tomorrow with some constructive criticism.  But like I said before, https://youtu.be/9s3GvqjvoCc?t=29s

Excellent point. I see Aeon as a CryptoNote test bed focused on applications for low-fidelity hardware. This is a large and important market.  M-Pesa targets this market and is doing extremely well.

Luxury branding will cause much of the existing community to reject Aeon as that is a market best left to Monero. Unless you want to alienate the Monero community (which I believe makes up most of the small Aeon community now) I would be very careful.

I just used the wording for a font type concept. It's the font that I would pair with future work on websites, ads, etc. So why did I choose those three words? Well, it's how Aeon is currently described on our reddit page. "AEON is a private, secure, untraceable currency."

I'll try some different fonts and ideas based on your feedback. If they don't work out, no hard feelings. I'm just trying to contribute.

You make some interesting points, but there's something about that philosophy that's a little jarring. It really depends what your objective is. If the objective is simply to make something appear valuable so that people will become entranced by it's subliminal extravagance, what does that say about what's being achieved here? Are we just trying to make the price go up? All the brands you referred to in the picture relate to luxury/wealth/extravagance. It's almost as if you're trying to ensnare people in on the basis of them becoming wealthy with Aeon. Is that really the right message?

My interest in Aeon is that it is a potentially amazing radical private currency that is suited particularly for low-fidelity hardware. We're on libertarian crypto-anarchist territory here. I'm not sure dressing it up as a BMW is the right approach.

So what is your objective? Think carefully about this.

That said, I get what you mean about my logo mock-up. I literally just fired it up in a few minutes and I'm no graphic designer. My point was that all that's required is a simple vector on a plain background. Just like the Bitcoin logo.

Now, as for this:-



It's interesting because I'm really not feeling this at all (with all due respect to critical60). To me this seems like all of the other altcoins out there. The blue and the grey kinda reminds me of a miserable wet day, and the white lines seem way too thin - kinda wimpy. Fatten those white lines up!

Maybe with some tweaks I could get behind it.

 
  
We need to think about the future nature of money itself.  Our world is going to rapidly become better for everyone - we need to understand this.  It will be a time of great upheaval as AI and robotics unseat the notion that everyone has to work for a living.  Many are simply going to get to "exist".  
  
The notion of applying your talents is going to fall to an increasingly small group of people gifted intellectually, creatively, socially, aesthetically, and athletically.  We are already seeing the first wave of this in 2015; it's all around you.  
  
Cryptocurrency, the internet, AI, and robotics are going to allow us to provide a minimum standard of life for every human being - even the poorest woman in Nigeria or the poorest man in Tajikistan will be able to have nutritious food, a decent shelter, entertainment, and access to the sum of all human knowledge.  In such a world, why would humans strive to do more?  
  
I keep coming back to this book because it really is that important.  If you haven't read it, you need to.  I'm actually about to re-read it for the third time because it helps me reflect on deep social mechanisms every time I do: http://www.amazon.com/Spent-Sex-Evolution-Consumer-Behavior/dp/0143117238  
  
 
  
What people will need in a world without scarcity is a reason to work hard and apply themselves.  This will come into play in the form of status.  A hardware upgrade to humans will likely be the last step that will make money as we know it obsolete, so we can rely on humans running pretty much the same hardware as long as money is relevant.  This hardware is based on sound biology that we see across the animal kingdom and is based on a very important concept: costly signalling.  
  
Once you have enough to be happy, most of us (some rise above these base instincts) still feel the need for more.  This is costly signalling.  What is that diamond watch doing besides telling the time?  It's doing the same thing that the luxury car, perfect makeup, washboard abs, $5000 dress, or anything else you find in the Robb Report does: it's signalling to potential mates and friends: "Hey, look at me.  I have so much free time and money that I can afford to literally waste it on icons and objects that display how successful I am."  
  
Those of us scraping by at jobs might get offended at this, but there is no need.  This is what being an animal is about - cats lick and groom themselves with their spare time to display what a "rich" cat they are (they have lots of free time because they are successful hunters).  Birds perfect intricate songs that serve no real purpose other than to show off what a fancy song they've mastered.  And humans drive Lambos and wear Vera Wang dresses.  
  
The move to a post-scarcity world is not going to change these instincts, and because we cannot change human instinct we must create a system that uses those instincts and directs them into something beneficial for all.  Bitcoin didn't attempt to tell humans, "Hey, here are the rules.  Please suppress your greed and play fairly".  No, Bitcoin took human needs and used them as part of a system that fueled something useful.  With Bitcoin, greed was literally good.  Go ahead and hammer the network trying to get more than the rest of the players - you're only making the protocol stronger.  
  
Bitcoin succeeded because it harnessed powerful and primal forces within us.  
  
And Aeon will succeed because it will harness similar powerful and primal forces.  We won't be harnessing the power of greed any more than any other cryptocurrency but we will be adding a new key ingredient that has been missing from crypto-objects up until now: status.  
  
Why do you think this rings so true?  
  
 
  
It rings true because it is.  If you want to help create the future of money for the masses, Monero is waiting.  Everyone is invited.  
  
But not everyone is invited to Aeon.  You have to have a little bit more.  Maybe it's smarts, or connections.  Perhaps one day it will be raw money.  For now it's ingenuity and risk tolerance.  One day we may see Aeon rise to be one of the most expensive cryptocurrencies (inexplicably and despite it being a Cryptonote test bed).  Perhaps there will be entire classes of luxury virtual goods that can only be purchased with Aeon, and *their* status will be secured by the fact that someone has to get their hands on Aeon to even have a chance to purchase the luxury good in the first place.  
  
But even now, by owning Aeon and providing the network with value you are doing your part to help advance digital money around the world.  The status of ownership is just one of the advantages.

I prefer the current logo and see no reason to change it:

1. The "Private Secure Untraceable" is a rip off of Monero (albeit in a different order). I don't like that. Also, too much descriptive content for a logo, even an extended version with the name (most logos can be used with or without the name). Take look at those successful logos above. How many of them have descriptive content as part of the logo itself? Zero.

2. The 'a' part of the logo bothers me. I doesn't look like an 'a' and the symmetry is poor. Again look at the logos above. A few have broken symmetry, such as Brooks Brothers, but it is very carefully done to remain subtle. The broken symmetry here is very jarring to me, in addition to just not looking like an 'a'. Either go completely abstract shape-wise (Rolex, Mercedes Benz, etc.) or stay closer to the literal letters presented in a stylized manner (Rolls Royce). Avoid the middle.

3. I'm still not sold on the circle. I suspect the concept could be remolded into a more distinctive shape such a diamond. EDIT: I do think the yin-yang theme works, possibly (though not sure of the actual purpose of the symbolism here really). If so then maybe the circle should stay.


This is what I said earlier. No text will be useful at 16px. At that size you working with shape and color.

Yeah I really want to keep the current logo but this one is making it extremely difficult

 
  
I appreciate the sentiment, but I have to protest.  Don't take this personally; we are being honest and objective here.  This looks like a few extra lines slapped onto the Internet Explorer "e", and the blue makes my eyes bleed against that white.  It looks like a mid-1990's startup that's not to be taken seriously at all - certainly not a currency that may be worth billions one day.  Is it readable at 16x16?  Sure, but it's also not attractive and desirable.  It also is barely distinguishable as an "ae" when it is shrunk - it looks like a bunch of squiggly lines (even to me and I'm looking for the "ae").  
  

  
You say that what we are doing has nothing to do with corporate branding, but I respectfully disagree.  The human brain is an association engine; this is the only reason we are still better than computers - massive, massive parallel processing.  When a human sees *anything* they aren't just seeing a thing objectively; they are seeing every experience they ever had with that thing and anything like it.  
  
When we see this:  
 
  
there absolutely is branding at play.  I have never been to China so I feel nothing when I look at the Yuan.  It is a piece of paper to me, even though it has massive value.  I don't feel like it's valuable because my brain isn't drawing any associations to any time when I found anything like it to be valuable.  Now when I look at the dollar, I am immediately flooded with a lifetime of events all surrounding how good it felt to have a 20 dollar bill, find one on the ground, get them from the ATM.... there is huge "branding" at play.  It's likely even something in that color scheme would activate those same pathways.  The Euro?  The colors not so much there, but I have taken many trips to Europe and I remember all the times those pieces of paper felt 'valuable'.  These processes are very similar to the ones that activate when I repeatedly see an attractive person I like or a luxury brand that I can't afford.  
  
Let's look at some logos of these "luxury brands" that don't scale very well to 16x16 either:  
  
 
  
When I see these I immediately think of all the times I saw them featured in a very expensive mall, or lauded in a magazine.  I think of every beautiful person I have ever seen wearing or being associated with these brands.  I wouldn't know how to exchange them as actual currency but there is no doubt in my mind that these brands have value and there is value in them.  They aren't pandering to me - they exist, and if I'm good enough I will attain ownership of these brands.  
  
When I said to experiement with Aeon, this is what I meant.  Let's create a brand of cryptocurrency that actually feels desirable and carries status to own.  Aeon isn't just a currency - merely the act of owning Aeon should be a status symbol that is *more* than the sum of the parts (which are already significant due to this being a Cryptonote).  You own a slice of bleeding future, out of the reach of most people.  Let them transact in Monero, the more "reliable" blockchain.  Aeon?  That's for the innovators, the rule-breakers, and those who dare to do more.  And even if a blockchain experiement went awry, those who hold Aeon aren't worried - no one is trying to cash out and in fact there is a certain social trust in the others who hold Aeon.  We aren't here to ride some pump and dump wave; we're here to own a slice of the future.  
  
That brings me to this son of a bitch here:  
  
 
  
My god.  It's full of stars.  I think we're dangerous close.  We're definitely in a zone of danger.  
  
This is amazing.  I am literally hard at work right now thinking of all the possibilities for this logo.  I do think we need to try another version of this in that sexy and luxury blue we were looking at earlier.  I feel like that might make it perfect.  And who knows, perhaps those curves on the letters need slight tweaking.  
  
But this is really something special.  
  
This looks like the money of the new "1%".  And what do those 1% get?  The best Cryptonote innovations first, lead by the top programmers, most elite community, and most astute economists and mathematicians in the world.  This isn't an altcoin.  
  
This is Aeon.

  

Updated concept for AmericanPegasus. Will update more tomorrow.

http://imgur.com/a/b8o4G

Variation and expansion:-

Some tweaks, but the idea is there.

Scalable. Shaped. Visible. Simple.