Topic: [AEON] Aeon Speculation - page 86. (Read 190203 times)

i bought the orders yesterday under 4000 sats. was ready to buy some more tonight. lets see how it goes. this time push past 10k towards. i feel that relisting on poloniex coming then monero investors will be taking a look at aeon seriously

 
  
How much you got?  You do realize that Aeon, by virtue of being a valid Cryptonote, is on the short short list of valid future blockchains right?  I'm thinking about buying a few more 'bags', drunk or not.  
  
Also, you know what I think of when I hear and see "Aeon"?  I think of something high tech, ethereal, elite, and luxurious.  Thoughts of things like this come to mind:  
 
  
In fact, because Aeon feels so futuristic already, we should entertain the notion of calling one of the sub-units a "credit": this is the default atomic unit of cash in most 'future' scenarios and it really is a statement of strength about what we believe Aeon could become one day.  

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edit, 5:30AM:  
Well, trollercoaster assuming you were priced competitively I just bought it.    
Picked up 40k more - sober this time.    
  

are you all trying to pump this coin....

I'm waiting for AmericanPegasus to get drunk again so I can sell the other half of my bag 

no sellers at these levels. once we get constant volume te higher the price the better before we get added to poloniex

As mentioned over on the [ANN] topic, I have an investor/entrepreneur friend who manages his own investment fund and has been doing serious business work over in China for a couple of years now.  He's the real deal.  He recently became interested in both Bitcoin and Monero, so I convinced him to take a look at Aeon as well. 
 
I'm offering him some of the Aeon I've acquired to assist us/(find us the right people to assist us) with translation and porting efforts to Chinese.  I also have people in mind who might be able to help with Russian and Romanian translations.  Hopefully I'll have more info soon.

At first i was drawn to Æ, but the more i look at æ the more i like it. It flows naturally, and is matching with aeon's logo. At the same time, is there anything that says they can't both be used?

 
  
Frustratingly enough, after I spent a lot of work typing out the topic I have to concede that you are right.  Someone already posted, so I could only lock the topic - not delete it outright.  
  
As far as a system of social management for the currency I will give it some thought, but it is likely a difficult problem.  My initial thoughts on the matter:  
  
It will either be decentralized, centralized, or a mixture of the two.  Direct democracy attempts to create a completely decentralized system, but like all systems has its weaknesses.  It relies on all nodes to be equally informed and have equally altruistic intentions.  This is never the case, and this problem manifests itself in situations where an entire population might vote for something clearly detrimental or ethically abhorrent because they have been persuaded to do so or simply out of tradition.  As well, total democracy lends all voices an equal weight - a problem that can be illustrated as easily as creating a poll topic here on the message board.  People who only have a passing interest in Aeon suddenly have the same weight as smooth or myself.  
  
The US System of government seems better than a pure democracy in that it is not the (possibly uninformed) individual nodes who vote, but politicians who are elected by the nodes.  This gives everyone a say because even if you are not informed enough to be a direct voter yourself (politician) you always have a say in who is having a say.  One of the problems with this system is that it leads to corruption of said politicians and manipulation of the individual nodes (voters) while also not guaranteeing those elected will be any better suited to making decisions than the voters themselves. (See the perpetual incompetence of some Senators and Congressmen for an example of this)  That also does not seem ideal, but it has parallels in the body.  The cells of the limb trust the brain to make decisions for it, even though sometimes that brain mistakenly puts the limbs in unnecessary danger for no tangible benefit.
  
I have considered the mechanics of a system that would use the currency itself as a mechanism of 'voting'.  I think burning is silly, as it takes perfectly good tokens out of circulation forever, but for the system to be decentralized this voting also cannot funnel into any 'trusted' account.  Perhaps participants could send voting money to be used as future transaction fees.  This system is decentralized and self-sustaining but possibly open to abuse on its own.    
  
Example: Aeon has a 1000 Aeon (an arbitrary number) fee to suggest new measures.  Participants can 'soft burn' Aeon by sending it as excess transaction fees in a controlled transaction between two addresses they control.  The Aeon gets distributed to miners and incentivizes the network while also serving as a measure of voting on a particular proposal.  Problems:  This creates an oligarcy - literal rule by the rich as those with lots of Aeon now have the power to propose and pass laws that benefit them.  The fact that the Aeon gets distributed among the miners isn't really relevant because if/as Aeon grows in value, it could theoretically also be used to purchase more mining power leading those who 'soft burn' their votes to have a way to attempt to recover them through increased mining.  It also doesn't provide much in the way of the 'little guy' having a voice.  
  
Changing tracks, if you are wondering about the possible issues with any sort of 'foundation' you only need look as far as the 'Bitcoin foundation' and the schism that still occurred in that community.  
  
This is obviously a very difficult problem, as it is one that humans have been attempting to solve for millennia (since at least the invention of writing).  It is not clear what the ideal solution is at the moment, but it is clear what doesn't work: direct democracy, oligarchy, and dictatorship all fall prey to various weaknesses.  
  
Meanwhile it is also clear what qualities an ideal system should/might have: those who are more involved and with more at stake should have a larger say, no one entity should ever make all the decisions in a vacuum, and the system needs to either completely resist the "power pyramid" that tends to form where a small group at the top control the masses at the bottom or it needs to embrace it fully.  Bear in mind the ideal solution may also be the complete opposite of what we expect.  
  
In trying to figure out how to make digital cash work, the early pioneers were going about it all wrong.  They knew that data was not inherently a precious object, and could be copied at will.  How then could they create a digital object that had scarcity?  If you are a student of cryptographic history, you will know that many of our brightest minds puzzled over this for a long time.  The marvelous solution, as embodied by bitcoin, was to stop resisting the problem altogether: like the flow of energy in a martial art - take your opponent's energy and make it your own.  
  
Hence, the solution was found in extrapolating all the way to the other end of the spectrum: if we can't make a digital object precious in our network, let's make it collective and ubiquitous.  There won't be individual and precious cryptographic objects - there will be one shared ledger and every member of the network will have a copy.  
  
Perhaps a new ideal of governance of any system, whether biological, governmental, or even financial will be embodied by a novel idea along the same lines: if there are certain challenges or forces hindering us from solving a problem, is there a way to instead reverse those difficulties and transform them into a solution?  I urge any bright mind reading these words to reflect on this and try to help me brainstorm.  I am constantly amazed at how bitcoin took pieces that already existed and combined them in a novel and unexpected way to generate a solution to an ancient problem.  The theme of that solution though, in many ways, was to stop resisting the inevitable and embrace it.  
  
I am convinced that there may be other significant problems that puzzle us today (including ideal social governance) that may fall to the same techniques of creative thought.

Not an image host, my site. And it doesn't matter - since I host miners on my site, Google blacklists it. Obviously because all miners are malware.

Yeah my choice would be the æ symbol, but I'm kinda flexible depending on strength of argument. I'd be interested in hearing smooth's opinions on the symbol issue.

At some point we're going to have to commit to a symbol in order to make a start on further branding, logo design etc. How best can we commit to this? Via democracy? Core vote? This raises interesting first challenges and sneak previews into the issue of governance. How do we square that?

It's an interesting subject, because as we have seen recently in Bitcoin, getting the socio-political element right in regard to governance is key to a strong foundation. As Aeon is kinda an experimental test-bed it might be a good idea to experiment also with the sociopolitical framework of it's management.

Direct democracy? Aeon Foundation? President? Supreme Council? Straw polls? How can we achieve an interesting, experimental, and inspirational political framework that truly makes Aeon stand out from anything that has occurred before, including Bitcoin. How can we design a system where the ideas of the layperson can receive serious consideration from the executive function of the overall hivemind?

Something to consider.

For now at least, the first task would be to get the symbol sorted so we can expand further.

As for the post you've just made in regards to changing the emission. To be honest, I'd simply just delete it. If you let it fade away it sends out the wrong message, if it attracts trolls it sends out the wrong message, and if doesn't do any of those things, then all it does do is say: "Hey I'm AmericanPegasus and I've just bought a ton of aeon and consequently we need to start pumping this shit together."

Play it down. Don't attract negative noise before we've built the foundations.

Those my thoughts.

 
  
Well, the topic is made already: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proposal-to-change-aeon-trailing-emission-to-perpetual-89-0888-inflation-1239063 but I won't bump it so if it sinks naturally then it sinks.  
  
Also, I've read through your history recently and respect your opinions; you seem to have a good mind for a lot of the same things I'm interested in.  Do you think I'm correct in pushing for æ to be the symbol in light of the recent inflation rate changes?  
  

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On an entirely different note, I just saw this    

 
This makes me want to hold 250k Aeon in savings.     
  
Of course, had I seen these numbers sooner, I might have stopped collecting at 28k or 38k.  
 

Pushed to the git - should now never cause pool bans, and GREATLY reduce stale rate.

110/110 accepts (NSFW): https://ottrbutt.com/miner/wolfaeon-11052015.png

There's no need to make a hullabaloo on the emission change. Just make the change.

I'd be more interested in when we can vote on the currency symbol.

 

No vote, but I am about to publish a topic now encapsulating all the thoughts so far.  This way no one (even those who don't routinely visit Aeon topics) can ever claim that this was decided in a vacuum.  We maintain transparency for future adopters of Aeon, which is important to me.  It will eventually be 2017 and people will come looking through these threads for the history of this blockchain before they decide whether they want to get involved.   

There is no plan to have a vote. The code can be changed "soon" once it is clear this idea is accepted. It is an easy change that just involves taking the social contract 0.88888...%/year, converting it into a per block divisor and coding block_reward = supply / divisor. I just did a quick estimate and it looks like around 1/15m of the outstanding money supply per block, but when I code it I will make sure the right number is used.

 
 
You need a new image host mate; Firefox is throwing a security warning when I try to visit that png.

Someone goofing around on the ask stack on Bittrex. 
 
 
 
I see wot u did.  I'm really excited about the new "8-flation" as well.

Has anyone noticed minergate's new "xmr.to" service called changelly? (changelly.com)
It has all the CN coins except AEON  

the price is definitly being suppressed to fill buy orders not many sellers left now think we will see 10k plus

 
  
Right, so hurting, but not dead.  Browsing over all 100 pages of the Aeon ANN topic showed me that as well.  

 
  
Oh honey.  Formerly anonymint (and others); apparently some people know of him and some work he has done in Computers/Economics over the last decades.  I don't know much about him other than what I've read here on Bitcointalk (I'm not aware of his real-life identity, and it's my understanding that he doesn't wish that to be public).  He is famous here for writing a Game of Thrones-sized amount of essays about the current political and economic state of the world, as well as continually promising some incredible new cryptocurrency that will blow everything else away.  Rarely, if ever, does he take any time to come hang out on the Altcoin boards vs. the Economics one.  I like his writing style, but think he struggles with issues like letting go of his ego (something that took me many years to accomplish as well).  Also, he sometimes he gets a little too paranoid/fringe in his economic theories for my tastes (for example, his dire warnings about the SEC and speculating in altcoins).  But he is clearly intelligent, and has been one of the most active members of Bitcointalk over the years.  
  
Yes, altcoins are a little subversive.... but just imagine if the original Bitcoin pioneers had stopped to think: "Hey guys, are you sure that this is going to be approved by everyone?  Like, we're not going to offend anyone by creating this new money out of thin air, right?"    Bitcoin would have never existed.  Sometimes envelopes need to be pushed, though I think everything going on in the altcoin world (including those shady IPO/premine coins) is perfectly legal - though perhaps not ethically defensible.  
 
Aeon is a pure PoW coin that everyone has had equal access to since it's creation.  Because it's a financial 'network' it also must carry a value; if it didn't carry any value, it wouldn't be a financial network.  The two concepts are intrinsically linked.  Right now, the free market has decided that given all the factors surrounding Aeon, it is worth about 2 cents each.  In the future that number may go up, or down.  It's up to every person to make decisions about ownership and involvement as they see fit.