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Topic: all finished - page 17. (Read 44823 times)

member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
November 26, 2013, 11:35:54 PM
What happens if HashFast actually do deliver around 31st December.
Will the miners not give positive ROI?

No. Likely not. They'll never ROI in BTC, and they'll only break even in fiat if bitcoin goes to over $1200/BTC.
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
November 26, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
My bet is that we get the units the week of Dec 31st, after finding out they've been diligently performing extensive "burn-in testing." 
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1075
^ Will code for Bitcoins
November 26, 2013, 09:02:39 PM
What happens if HashFast actually do deliver around 31st December.
Will the miners not give positive ROI?

Unfortunately very probably no, even with MPP. Unless difficulty stops to increase in the rates we are seeing now, witch is very unlikely, but possible if Cointerra and most of other manufacturers fail to deliver.
hero member
Activity: 687
Merit: 500
November 26, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
What happens if HashFast actually do deliver around 31st December.
Will the miners not give positive ROI?
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
November 26, 2013, 08:42:59 PM
Anyone care to clarify the bold bit for me. I paid in BTC so are they saying refunds will be at the usd/btc rate on the date I paid. So essentially I get myself full btc payment back.

No, the bolded language is trying to say that the refund amount was set in USD on the day you paid, so you'll get that amount of USD back (i.e. what itod's summary said).

However, that section was added to the purchase agreement long after we placed our order, so it doesn't (and can't) apply to us. It's pretty simple contract law stuff.

Now, for motivation behind it, that's harder to work out... it could be that they're concerned they'll have to issue refunds and are trying to limit their possible liability (but know nothing about contracts). Or it could be that they're looking at the massive rise in BTC exchange rate and are concerned that will continue and may become a problem for future orders (the only orders to which those terms apply).

In any event, that newly added section can not apply to us because one party can't unilaterally alter an existing contract's terms.

Agreed. If they did try to hold us to it we could definitely take them to court over it (and probably win too). All that's left IMO is the waiting game.

There's no probably about it. That case would be over by the first motion for summary judgement, and it would go in favor of the customer.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
November 26, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
Anyone care to clarify the bold bit for me. I paid in BTC so are they saying refunds will be at the usd/btc rate on the date I paid. So essentially I get myself full btc payment back.

No, the bolded language is trying to say that the refund amount was set in USD on the day you paid, so you'll get that amount of USD back (i.e. what itod's summary said).

However, that section was added to the purchase agreement long after we placed our order, so it doesn't (and can't) apply to us. It's pretty simple contract law stuff.

Now, for motivation behind it, that's harder to work out... it could be that they're concerned they'll have to issue refunds and are trying to limit their possible liability (but know nothing about contracts). Or it could be that they're looking at the massive rise in BTC exchange rate and are concerned that will continue and may become a problem for future orders (the only orders to which those terms apply).

In any event, that newly added section can not apply to us because one party can't unilaterally alter an existing contract's terms.

Agreed. If they did try to hold us to it we could definitely take them to court over it (and probably win too). All that's left IMO is the waiting game.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
November 26, 2013, 03:55:25 PM
Anyone care to clarify the bold bit for me. I paid in BTC so are they saying refunds will be at the usd/btc rate on the date I paid. So essentially I get myself full btc payment back.

No, the bolded language is trying to say that the refund amount was set in USD on the day you paid, so you'll get that amount of USD back (i.e. what itod's summary said).

However, that section was added to the purchase agreement long after we placed our order, so it doesn't (and can't) apply to us. It's pretty simple contract law stuff.

Now, for motivation behind it, that's harder to work out... it could be that they're concerned they'll have to issue refunds and are trying to limit their possible liability (but know nothing about contracts). Or it could be that they're looking at the massive rise in BTC exchange rate and are concerned that will continue and may become a problem for future orders (the only orders to which those terms apply).

In any event, that newly added section can not apply to us because one party can't unilaterally alter an existing contract's terms.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1075
^ Will code for Bitcoins
November 26, 2013, 07:26:56 AM
Anyone care to clarify the bold bit for me. I paid in BTC so are they saying refunds will be at the usd/btc rate on the date I paid. So essentially I get myself full btc payment back.

How did you conclude that? If you would get your BTC back why would USD/BTC rate ever be mentioned? It's stated: All payments in BTC are converted to US$ at the US$/BTC conversion rate at the day of the purchase. IANAL, but people in the main HF thread claim they've also inserted a clause in the trade agreement stating that they can update that agreement post festum. This is all legally very shady, but it's obvious that HF is going the road we were suspicious they would: All refunds they are willing to fulfill, without the court involved, will be in the US$ value at the date of the purchase. They will gladly convert them back to BTC if you insist on BTC refund, but guess which rate they will use now.

Problem is there is absolutely nothing we or Waldo can do about it at this moment. They claim there will be no refunds if they ship in 2013, so we have to wait and see if it will happen, no matter how harmful it is to our interests.
full member
Activity: 229
Merit: 100
November 26, 2013, 05:44:44 AM
Anyone care to clarify the bold bit for me. I paid in BTC so are they saying refunds will be at the usd/btc rate on the date I paid. So essentially I get myself full btc payment back.
Rea
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 0
November 26, 2013, 05:05:34 AM
All i have to say is i hope they just did not fuck us over if we are going to get a refund.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1075
^ Will code for Bitcoins
November 26, 2013, 02:49:16 AM
Updated today: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3715623

Quote
New Section added for refunds:
Section 3

(i)       ALL SALES ARE FINAL.  NO ORDER OR ANY PART THEREOF MAY BE RESCHEDULED OR CANCELLED WITHOUT HASHFAST’ PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT EXCEPT FOR CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED UNDER THIS SECTION 3.

(j)       REFUNDS.  Any refunds due to Buyer will be made in United States Dollars, and for the purposes of calculating refunds, amounts paid in Bitcoin or other virtual currencies will be deemed paid in United States Dollars at the exchange rate given by Hashfast to its customers on the order date.  Refunds for partial order cancelations or returns will be adjusted for any discounts previously given to Buyer for volume purchases.

TLDR; Now it's not in our interest to apply for a refund. We have to wait for the machines no matter how long it takes.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
November 26, 2013, 12:44:29 AM
Any refund will be at the $ price, so a $6k miner would be a refund of about 7.5 btc,  or about 0.375btc per share for this GB. Would be a good scam, take btc, wait for value to rise, don't deliver product, refund a fraction of the bitcoins. Not saying this was a scam just saying that it doesn't harm Hash Fast whatever the outcome.

Except that's not actually a refund. If we paid $6k in USD then yes, that would be a refund. But we paid in bitcoin. A refund is returning to the buyer what they paid, which here is far more than 7.5 btc. I also seem to remember hashfast confirming that refunds would be in the amount and currency of the original payment, although I can't find that at the moment.
According to a Texas court BTC is a currency and if you pay in one currency that is how you should get refunded.
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
November 26, 2013, 12:41:02 AM
Any refund will be at the $ price, so a $6k miner would be a refund of about 7.5 btc,  or about 0.375btc per share for this GB. Would be a good scam, take btc, wait for value to rise, don't deliver product, refund a fraction of the bitcoins. Not saying this was a scam just saying that it doesn't harm Hash Fast whatever the outcome.

Except that's not actually a refund. If we paid $6k in USD then yes, that would be a refund. But we paid in bitcoin. A refund is returning to the buyer what they paid, which here is far more than 7.5 btc. I also seem to remember hashfast confirming that refunds would be in the amount and currency of the original payment, although I can't find that at the moment.

I found it in Hashfast website on MPP program:
---------------------------------------------
If I didn’t pay in Bitcoin, how do you calculate the purchase price under the MPP and compare it to the amount Bitcoin generated?

If you paid in USD or other fiat currency, HashFast will base the calculations on the BTC to USD (or other currency) exchange rate we gave our customers the day of your purchase.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
November 25, 2013, 05:01:44 PM
Any refund will be at the $ price, so a $6k miner would be a refund of about 7.5 btc,  or about 0.375btc per share for this GB. Would be a good scam, take btc, wait for value to rise, don't deliver product, refund a fraction of the bitcoins. Not saying this was a scam just saying that it doesn't harm Hash Fast whatever the outcome.

Except that's not actually a refund. If we paid $6k in USD then yes, that would be a refund. But we paid in bitcoin. A refund is returning to the buyer what they paid, which here is far more than 7.5 btc. I also seem to remember hashfast confirming that refunds would be in the amount and currency of the original payment, although I can't find that at the moment.
full member
Activity: 229
Merit: 100
November 25, 2013, 04:31:43 PM
Any refund will be at the $ price, so a $6k miner would be a refund of about 7.5 btc,  or about 0.375btc per share for this GB. Would be a good scam, take btc, wait for value to rise, don't deliver product, refund a fraction of the bitcoins. Not saying this was a scam just saying that it doesn't harm Hash Fast whatever the outcome.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
November 25, 2013, 03:12:05 PM
Just curious, does anyone have estimates for how much they'll lose if they paid 3BTC/share? I'm pretty sure it's 100% going to be some sort of loss at this point, right?

It's a little difficult to answer, considering the MPP and its (possible) effect on the calculations, but even with that we're looking at a likely loss. Without the MPP, and unless BTC goes to over $1200 (which it might, granted), we're looking at a loss of about $100. But if you look at it in BTC, we're looking at a loss of 2.75 BTC (which means you'd have about $2200 more if you hadn't spent the BTC/got the BTC back).

So... yeah. At this point I'm clearly hoping for a refund.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
StayFocus and LIVE
November 25, 2013, 03:15:28 AM
Hey everyone! Sorry for the lack of activity recently- I've just been backed up a bit more than usual with other work.

With that being said- unfortunately nothing has changed according to HashFast. Their bottom line is they ship by Dec 31 or we get refunds. Until then, we have to just wait.  Undecided
Is the live stream still working ?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
StayFocus and LIVE
November 25, 2013, 03:14:37 AM
Hey everyone! Sorry for the lack of activity recently- I've just been backed up a bit more than usual with other work.

With that being said- unfortunately nothing has changed according to HashFast. Their bottom line is they ship by Dec 31 or we get refunds. Until then, we have to just wait.  Undecided
Is the live stream still working ?
member
Activity: 99
Merit: 10
November 23, 2013, 12:02:03 PM
Yeah, you can trust waldo!
I'd hope HF won't make it til Dec 31, so we can go for a refund but when that happens, everyone will go for one. And no one will get one - if you know where I'm going...
So, yeah, let's hope for a quick delivery and rake in what we can!

I'm hoping for that too. But I'm sure they will do everything to deliver by end of Dec. That might include untested devices or something that will just work for short period of time. Look I am not accusing HashFast will do this. But that's what I think.

At once I was thinking of using bitcoin betting site and bet on HastFast to deliver before Dec 31st for hedging. but I'm gonna be screwed if HashFast deliver after Dec 31st and still refusing to refund.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night
November 23, 2013, 09:38:03 AM
Yeah, you can trust waldo!
I'd hope HF won't make it til Dec 31, so we can go for a refund but when that happens, everyone will go for one. And no one will get one - if you know where I'm going...
So, yeah, let's hope for a quick delivery and rake in what we can!
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