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Topic: all finished - page 14. (Read 44926 times)

sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
January 01, 2014, 04:53:43 PM
One of the main HF threads contained a copy-pasted email from HF informing the poster that reliability issues with PCBs means mass production hasn't started and Batch 1 customers can either accept Rev. 0 hardware now (with reliability issues), Rev. 2 hardware in about a month, or ask for a refund as long as they do so within the next ten days.

It then links to a form they want you to use for the refund request which requires you to agree to accept the USD refund none of us want.

Others in that thread are suggesting sending back a request for a refund with your own form, acknowledging that per the original and still-in-effect Terms of Sale you'll be taking full refund of the original number of BTC you paid and that you request that refund. I would ask that Waldo do this, and do it very soon.

At least one person in the HF thread has claimed to get confirmation from HF that they'll honor the original ToS and pay back the full BTC amount, although this is the internet, so you can take that claim with a grain of salt.

While I totally think Waldo should do this, we did enter this as a group buy, which means that we should get the group's permission to do this. Waldo, could you make a Google Form that could be posted here for everyone to do? The options could be something like this:

  • Accept the miners
  • Wait for batch 2
  • Submit for a refund with a customized form that demands that the refund be the original amount of BTC

There should be a deadline on this survey (say, close in 4 days) after which the results will be tallied and we'll go from there. In order to make sure the answers are valid, each submitter should be asked to say how many shares they have and what their payout address is.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
January 01, 2014, 03:20:32 PM
One of the main HF threads contained a copy-pasted email from HF informing the poster that reliability issues with PCBs means mass production hasn't started and Batch 1 customers can either accept Rev. 0 hardware now (with reliability issues), Rev. 2 hardware in about a month, or ask for a refund as long as they do so within the next ten days.

It then links to a form they want you to use for the refund request which requires you to agree to accept the USD refund none of us want.

Others in that thread are suggesting sending back a request for a refund with your own form, acknowledging that per the original and still-in-effect Terms of Sale you'll be taking full refund of the original number of BTC you paid and that you request that refund. I would ask that Waldo do this, and do it very soon.

At least one person in the HF thread has claimed to get confirmation from HF that they'll honor the original ToS and pay back the full BTC amount, although this is the internet, so you can take that claim with a grain of salt.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
December 31, 2013, 05:55:00 PM
Apparently they started shipping today, there's a guy in the main Hashfast thread who got his miners. WH, did you receive any tracking #'s?

The terms of sale specify delivery by Dec. 31. Even if he got a tracking number, we're still entitled to a full refund (as in the same number of BTC we paid) even if he got a tracking number.

...it's looking more and more like it'll take legal action to make them honor their obligations, though. Scummy assholes.
It says delivery EXWORKS which means tendered to the shipper. To get in more detail then they shouldn't be using their own FedEx account it should be the buyers arrangement for shipping.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
December 31, 2013, 05:50:30 PM
Apparently they started shipping today, there's a guy in the main Hashfast thread who got his miners. WH, did you receive any tracking #'s?

The terms of sale specify delivery by Dec. 31. Even if he got a tracking number, we're still entitled to a full refund (as in the same number of BTC we paid) even if he got a tracking number.

...it's looking more and more like it'll take legal action to make them honor their obligations, though. Scummy assholes.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
December 31, 2013, 03:59:41 PM
Apparently they started shipping today, there's a guy in the main Hashfast thread who got his miners. WH, did you receive any tracking #'s?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 31, 2013, 11:32:39 AM
We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  Smiley

He already sent it.

Oh thanks, possibly I missed that one

We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  Smiley

He already sent it.

He sent a request yes, but was it in the format they wanted?
Are they going to accept it in the current format in which sen?
Did he confirm that he was willing to take $ value in BTC and BTC back? And hence give up all requirements for us to be paid back in BTC.
If so, when was that put to us for a proper vote?

Phil

Yeah, it's a right questions. Also there is no information about upgrade kits, they are also could be refunded (is this batch1?)
hero member
Activity: 866
Merit: 1001
December 31, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  Smiley

He already sent it.

He sent a request yes, but was it in the format they wanted?
Are they going to accept it in the current format in which sen?
Did he confirm that he was willing to take $ value in BTC and BTC back? And hence give up all requirements for us to be paid back in BTC.
If so, when was that put to us for a proper vote?

Phil
full member
Activity: 158
Merit: 100
December 31, 2013, 10:59:16 AM
We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  Smiley

He already sent it.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 31, 2013, 04:33:07 AM
We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  Smiley
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
December 31, 2013, 04:03:13 AM
Even if we will have additional one in March, it will be worthless and neither we will reach roi for the first one in Janury. So the refund is still better choice.

And what will be with our upgrade kits?
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
.
December 30, 2013, 09:37:22 PM
Same here, specially if the MPP is applied (according on the HashFast page they say that we have to get 100% of our invest in 3 months and if it's not the case they will send as much hashing power as necessary to reach the amount).

That's not what the MPP is. They'll send chips on boards, which will require additional hardware (i.e. $$) to get hashing, and they'll only send up to 4x the original hashing power. If it would take more than that mining power to break even in three months (and it will) we'll still only get 4x the original hashing power.

There only one right solution - get full refund in BTC

Exactly. We'll never see a return on our BTC investment, we'll be lucky to see a return on our fiat investment, and it is unreasonable and illegal for HF to try to claim anything less than an equivalent number of BTC paid is a "full refund".
sr. member
Activity: 427
Merit: 511
December 30, 2013, 12:22:58 PM
  • If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
  • If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
  • No idea how to approach upgrades though.

+1

Same here, specially if the MPP is applied (according on the HashFast page they say that we have to get 100% of our invest in 3 months and if it's not the case they will send as much hashing power as necessary to reach the amount).
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
December 30, 2013, 06:19:34 AM
  • If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
  • If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
  • No idea how to approach upgrades though.

+1
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 30, 2013, 05:35:09 AM
There only one right solution - get full refund in BTC
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
December 29, 2013, 05:02:53 PM
  • If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
  • If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
  • No idea how to approach upgrades though.
hero member
Activity: 687
Merit: 500
December 29, 2013, 04:13:52 PM
Hell, if waldo can get full BTC amount refunded we don't need a vote.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
December 29, 2013, 04:09:53 PM
Even though the email that went out today says partial refund, that will NOT be the case.

What do you mean by "that will NOT be the case"? What will be the case? That email looks crystal clear to me, either we follow the refund process described in the email (which is insane thing to do, and I demand a vote before you do that) or miners will be shipped soon. I don't see any ambiguity in that.
That's if you believe they will start shipping soon.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
December 29, 2013, 04:00:17 PM
Even though the email that went out today says partial refund, that will NOT be the case.

What do you mean by "that will NOT be the case"? What will be the case? That email looks crystal clear to me, either we follow the refund process described in the email (which is insane thing to do, and I demand a vote before you do that) or miners will be shipped soon. I don't see any ambiguity in that.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
December 29, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
Quote
As orders were priced in USD, refunds will be issued in the equivalent amount of USD. If a refund is to be paid in BTC, the USD to BTC market exchange rate on the date of refund will be used to calculate the amount of BTC to be refunded.

Pardon the language, but that's a bunch of shit. Can someone run the calculations and see if it would be worth it to get our BTC back vs mining and then selling the machine somewhere down the line.

Also Waldo, if we do choose to do a refund, what happens to those who bought the hash rate doubler (the proper name escapes me at the moment)? Do we get a full refund of what we paid in BTC, or will that also come back to us in the form of the current USD to BTC exchange rate?

There are only invoices for miners #1-#5 in the opening post (I'm miner #7). We need facts for each miner to calculate exact BTC amounts potentially refunded: order date, US$ amount, BTC amount paid. I believe HF used MtGox exchange rate, but I'm not sure. If it is MtGox, it's not hard to get exchange rates on these 7 specific dates.

Somebody has done basic calculation in main HF thread, roughly 1/5 BTC would be refunded. It's a suicide to ask for a refund, we would get more than that amount through mining.

It's no use for me to claim I was right, but I was convinced this will end this way. Thank god refunds was not asked from HF or we would be done now, this way we have a chance to get between 2/5 to 3/5 of the money invested. It depends of the date MPP will be sent to us. If the MPP is sent at the beginning of february we can get around 3/5 max, if they are sent significantly later we ere doomed, specially if Cointerra delivers on time.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
December 29, 2013, 02:23:49 PM
Quote
As orders were priced in USD, refunds will be issued in the equivalent amount of USD. If a refund is to be paid in BTC, the USD to BTC market exchange rate on the date of refund will be used to calculate the amount of BTC to be refunded.

Pardon the language, but that's a bunch of shit. Can someone run the calculations and see if it would be worth it to get our BTC back vs mining and then selling the machine somewhere down the line.

Also Waldo, if we do choose to do a refund, what happens to those who bought the hash rate doubler (the proper name escapes me at the moment)? Do we get a full refund of what we paid in BTC, or will that also come back to us in the form of the current USD to BTC exchange rate?
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