Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now! - page 176. (Read 529096 times)

For what it's worth, BFL has been taken to court numerous times and BFL lost each time. It started in December, and has continued. Somewhere on the forums is a thread which has collected all of the lawsuits. BFL has, of course, played it down and ignored it when folks bring it up.

Nothing can be done like that for this situation until AT is in breach of the appropriate legislation for the UK. Now, I would say they already are as some have pointed out their terms do not fall within guidelines, but UK citizens have to bring the suit, or others will have to somehow get complaints filed in the UK.

yes it does look likely that either they 'can't' get a cc processor or choose not to do so...if it is choose not to do so it will force some to consider (bank xfer folks) losing their 30% down completely or doing another wire xfer or whatever on the remaining 70% to recoup something

it is beginning to look like that is the process alpha may be using to cover their butt

anyway amex has listed it as a fraud purchase under my paypal dispute but again (previous posts) they do all the leg work and will tell me zip on what
they are doing

but imho if alpha has no cc processing and no paypal anymore ...kinda hard to see how amex is gonna get my $$$ back

if that falls thru next step is the posting by the consumer protection agency in united kingdom (on this thread previoulsy)

hey I got a full refund from BFL of 8.5k after 1 year and 20 days anything is possible!

(of course a lifetime of luck may have been used up in the BFL refund.....that was about as likely as getting hit by a meteorite)

so the fickle finger of fate having f***ked moves on!




p.s. read some previous posts to this reply on this thread (see above posts) ...yep looks like that is exactly what they are doing....changing the TOS is a low blow and tips their hand
reading that change in their TOS (see above posts) there is no way this week reading that I'd pay another 70% esp with 400mh Titans from KNC hitting the
network in a month....

well...thats that i guess....pretty clear we are f*c*ed on our deposits......only hope now is my amex dispute and/or the uk consumer protection link
previous in this thread if amex has no luck

I guess the rule of thumb is if BFL can get away with this stuff for years why can't we change our TOS and do the same....If their was any consumer
protection (FTC) that worked in the USA ...BFL would have been slapped down last year and this crap would likely not be tolerated anymore....

Guess we will see how this 'farce' ends in approx 3 weeks

Searing

Fiaz Malik -> "We are aware it has been some time since an update and do wish we could apprise more often. This is something that can only be done when it makes sense and we cannot do this on demand ...



 … We are extremely busy at the moment and do apologize if you are still waiting for a response from our payments team. We will be up to date on our emails within a matter of days (there will be a few exceptions so please I know nobody likes waiting but if you're not being served it just means somebody else is)."


Huh ? "… we do wish we could apprise more often … can only be done when it makes sense .. cannot do this on demand … if you're not being served it means somebody else is"


This has got to be a living nightmare for anyone with an alpha-t pre-order.

I just read Fiaz's, quite frankly childish response on the Alpha-T forums to the posts here and on llitecintalk about the changes to the terms and conditions (he has since edited it to tone it down). It can be found in its entirety here:.

https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=706.msg4452#new

The pertinent point is this:

"Firstly, your terms can not be retrospectively changed, the terms you accept are the terms that apply to you, any changes after you place your order are for new customers only."

An interesting statement as they have already breached their original T&Cs by not providing an EXACT shipping date when they asked for final payment, 8-10 weeks before shipping.

"30% advance payment to be paid along with booking and registration. Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date. The exact shipment date shall be notified on our website"

They have also failed to provide any videos and not much in the way of images:

"We will try to disclose as much information as possible including the development updates with images/videos/statistics."

I guess they still have time for that. Although these statements have been omitted from later T&Cs

Interestingly they removed all reference to Dexcel from their original T&Cs "Update" section sometime after 10/02/2014 but before 22/03/2014. Make of that what you will.

I would suggest Alpha customers either ask for the terms that apply to them (good luck with that) or use wayback machine or Google cache to find them.
They have quietly added some amendments to the original terms that you don't want to be on the wrong side of including but not limited to this little gem:

"We shall not be liable to you for any loss of profit or for indirect or consequential loss suffered by you whether as a result of any breach of these terms by us or as a result of our negligence."

Essentially, if they breach the T&Cs they cannot be held liable. So if they ship a unit sometime next year or it hashes at half the speed....too bad. This statement IS NOT in their original terms. It was added some time after 10/02/2014. I would suggest you check your payment date and read through the T&Cs you signed up to at that time.

Good luck.

Spotted by magic-beans-for-sale on litecointalk.

Alpha have removed the July "guarantee from their update:

https://alpha-t.net/news/viper-update-20062014/

https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=687.0

" And we are sorry the payment processor keeps getting delayed we are doing everything we can to get it to you as fast as possible, rest assured we are committed to it so it will happen but some things are just outside of our control; as soon as it’s up we will email you".

« Last Edit: Today at 08:36:40 PM by Fiaz Malik »

Looks like Fiaz just edited it again.

It's also interesting to note the frequency and volume of their sudden change of terms, heart and attitude, since several folks began asking pointed, logical questions, which couldn't be avoided.

The thing is, Alpha are trying to slip these changes past their customers. Hoping no one will notice.
 
It will be interesting to see if Alpha try to enforce these new changes on customers who bought under their original terms. They state Alpha customers will be given an EXACT shipping date, will be asked to pay 8-10 weeks before the shipping date, will have a 2 week window to pay, will have multiple payment options, and a partial refund if they forfeit.

These are all out of the window now, but customers who bought the product before these changes, are entitled to have the original contract honored. Assuming they have a copy of the original contract. Although I'm guessing the majority of Alpha customers never even read it, let alone made a copy of it.

Even not a single word that they have promised to show working unit before requesting the final payment. Every chip foundry would provide at least estimated delivery date by the time order is placed. So chips were designed but no further steps taken imho. Partnership canceled, posts deleted, terms of contract quietly changed - bending of the reality started...

I'm confident they'll post something on Monday night. It'll include some major hardware update, and I bet they'll be requiring payments. And if they have a credit processor by then, they'll likely have some piece of hardware to show off to allay anyone's fears.

We'll see..

See?  This is what I was talking about.  I know the ordinary average person pays little mind to TOS's and contracts and such, but companies meticulously plan every detail that goes into them.  This is what I was trying to say earlier, if a company put something in the contract, you can be certain they will take advantage of it if at all possible. 

Worryingly, Alpha have changed their terms and conditions again.

Their original terms:

Payment:

"30% advance payment to be paid along with booking and registration. Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date. The exact shipment date shall be notified on our website."

This has been totally removed from their terms Notice "EXACT SHIPMENT DATE" will be posted on their website.

Google cache from 24 June :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/

Payment:

"Regarding the remaining balance we will contact you and ask you to make payment, which you can pay using Bank Transfer, Bitcoins and a debit/credit card payment processor (if applicable to your country). You do not have to use the same method as you used to pay the deposit.

You will have 2 weeks to make the payment. If payment is not made within that period, we treat your order as cancelled, and the cancellation provisions set out below will apply. If you are outside of the permitted cancellation period at the point your order is cancelled for non-payment, we will refund 25% of the deposit, less the cancellation fee."

This states you have 2 weeks to pay and will receive 25% of your deposit after the 5 month deadline, and can pay by credit card.

Their terms today: https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/

Payment:

"As you are pre-ordering, you only have to pay a 30% deposit at the time you place your order. Regarding the remaining balance we will contact you and ask you to make payment. You will have 1 week to make the payment. If payment is not made within that period, we treat your order as cancelled, and the cancellation provisions set out below will apply."

Not only do you now have one week to pay, you will lose all of your deposit if you fail to pay after 5 months and the credit card option has been removed.

Still think these guys are legit?


 

And for anyone who doesn't believe a "worst case" scenario is actually possible, go research the Black Arrow fiasco. They've actually produced gear in the past, but this recent order has been a cluster of epic proportions. Including bum chips.

Well I know I mentioned it before but the "guarantee" was obviously a lie.  They told their customers that they were trying to get a payment processor but that it was completely beyond their control, and then in the same breath said they guaranteed one by July.  Obviously one of those mutually exclusive declarations had to be a lie.  
I am going to stand by my original speculation that they never had any intention of getting a payment processor.  Taking credit cards means they have to do refunds as they would be forced by the CC company.  Not allowing credit cards allows them to play this "you're a business" game and make it as difficult as possible to get a refund, after luring in unsuspecting customers who thought they were protected with the refund guarantee.  

Yeah.. I was wondering the same myself, and posted that up as a concern awhile back. There should be no issue getting a processor, unless there's something really wrong, or they're trying to hold out past their timeframe.

If the latter, this would let them "cancel" many unpaid orders, freeing the parts up for the orders they need to fulfill, and would reudce their overhead while providing them with essentially free donations (the now-lost deposits of customers).

Well another week has gone by without a payment processor. Alpha have until Monday to meet their "Guarantee" of a CC payment option before July.

There have been wholesale thread deletions on the Alpha forum. I was following a thread earlier in which a customer, who claimed to have been a payment processor salesman for an ISO, asked why Alpha was finding it so hard to get a merchant account. He said it should take 2 days if Alpha passed the risk checks, but also offered a link to a list of payment processors who deal with high risk ventures. This thread was very quickly deleted.

If Alpha are on track and have nothing to hide why are they deleting threads, not replying to basic questions and are AWOL from their own forum (apart from when they pop in to delete threads and ban people).

I'm surprised there isn't more outrage from Alpha customers. Maybe they are waiting until Alpha actually miss the July shipping date. If that is the case be aware that for many of you the 5 month deadline will have passed and Alpha will refuse to refund you any of your money. If you are a consumer you will probably have to sue, if you are a business, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Well, that is certainly good news and what many of us want. No reason for the customer to take any more risks.
If they have that unit running then I am very likely to take part. I can't excuse some of the practices, posts, their deletions, etc. but at least I hope they get some units running with proper certification (if necessary.)

Thx,
IAS

what made me jump was stringing everyone along on cc option till the 5 months  you get nothing back..on refund according to their own TOS..at that point i 'punted"...i paid with cc and paypal and according to the above rules i would have had to do a bank/wire xfer on the last 70% w/o any risk on their part..no cc anymore no paypal...i came in on one set of rules in order to get my $$  back the rules completely change so they have "no" risk....

also who in their right mind expects anyone to wait w/o a prototype no cc the phone stopped working (at least for awhile) no real info (at the point i dumped on amex was like middle of may last update) ...so i am 'supposed' to pay the last 70% w/o any redress 2 weeks before you ship product ...no chips no pics and no chance of refund if/when i pay of any of it at that point? I mean really!

naw....will take my chances with amex still have seen nothing to change my mind..they may pull it off but from the above it is like they did everything they could to get people to punt and try to keep the 30% down payment

not saying that is true..but don't look to hot imho

Searing

The last word on that I believe is their most recent update which "guarantees" they will have one up and running before the end of June. Fiaz also confirmed this in their forum in a few posts, saying that they actually expect it any hour, any day now. I think they said that there would be timeframe beyond that which people could pay.

this likely the case...i never doubted they were trying to pull this off but do doubt the expertise to do so and ship something between july 15th and aug 1st

anyway I see they STILL have no way to pay by credit card (they extended the time line) (this may have changed?)

anyway as far as me I asked for my amex card to refund the 30% on the Vyper 50mh...so far the only thing of note is that paypal flagged my account
and added a dispute w/o me initating it (I assume it was amex) and paypal anyway is treating it as fraud...had to reset all my stuff on paypal...so
still no info from Amex but looks like they are just gonna run with the situation as fraud in that I put 30% down via paypal and have no $$$ back
even if I did want to pay the remaining 70% w/o cc option or paypal...well the amex lady really really did not seem to like that as an option

er also called amex they say that paypal is out of it (or maybe I should say me) they are doing all the leg work i have to do nothing with paypal
(at least at this time again i'm pretty much in the dark)

but again no idea but where it stands now...by the time amex gets around to fixing this 4-6 weeks it likely will be moot ....i don't have a lot
of hope I will get any money back (except i can declare it a biz loss and eventually get 25% back) other then that I'm llikely out $400 usd.

Will let you all know if/when any of this is resolved but it is all Amex I'm in the dark (what else is new!)

hate these 'pesky' life lessons

Searing

I suggest Alfa-T to to cut their PSU from the device "bundle" and allow the users to get their own PSU.
They are cut the price a little or add some extra Ghs or so with respect to the PSU price.
A lot of minors may already have PSU in hand.

The other thing I'm now thinking is whether they are with in the ROI projection ?
I never did the math for them since its scrypt. I'm more into btc.