Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now! - page 177. (Read 529056 times)

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I'll add that if they've done their homework and have been working on this from day 1, documenting all components, etc, then self certification or even getting a waiver, would cause no major delay.

I agree. The CE cert stuff can easily be found on google, and it lists the categories, methods and requirements. There's even self certification paths. Even small USB Block Erupters are CE certified. Without the sticker, customs has played havoc in the past on mining equipment. Cointerra apparently ran into an issue with their devices, despite them being 12volt.

It's why I said that it's possible for AT to self-certify. Either way they have to measure emissions, check for potential failure faults, document all of it, etc. Customs may (should) then ask for this documentation for proof.

From what I understand, if they can document that all of the components in use are already CE certified, then all they have to do is provide that documentation and show they're using a case (to shield the system). If not all of their components have CE documentation already, they may be asked to provide it. Even though it's under 70VDC, it's a mass produced "finished" product for use by the public, so it will fall under some level of scrutiny.

Case in point, even the RaspberryPi ran into this exact same issue. It uses no more than 5VDC, but its distribution was barred in the UK until they certified it. Sources: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/raspberry-pi-needs-ce-certificatio-70202 & http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/03/first-batch-of-35-linux-computer-arrives-in-uk-awaiting-ce-compliance-testing/

As to the Drexcel comment from allcoin, I'd like to believe that, but wouldn't that mean Drexcel is being unprofessional? And they're handling the chip design, not everything else. AT is handling everything else.. overall design, project milestones, case, power supplies, software, etc. Drexcel's involvement doesn't excuse everything else, especially how they're ignoring folks lately, and changing/removing their official responses.

A better explanation is that Alpha T doesn't know what the fuck they're doing and they're just making it up as they go along. 

Unlike other companies who just does the manufacturing themselves expect chip,
this miner is completely manufactured in india by a company and ships it to alfaT as un-assembled parts.
AlfaT may not be getting proper updates from them. They may not give anything regarding manufacturing process.
That may be the reason for these confusions.

There was a brief exchange on the KNC thread about CE certification or the absence of it with the Neptune and the conclusion of it was that the EU directive requiring CE certification wasn't applicable to 12 volt devices. I'm not an expert in the area so I haven't come to a conclusion. However, when discussing these things it would be good to provide links or references to the actual requirements so that the facts of the matter can be determined.

Hearsay and assumptions are wonderful things ...

Like I said, this was from Fiaz on his own forum lastnight. Just going by what he claims.


I think I was the first to mention that. But you know what's sad? THEY didn't think about it/realize it. They're the one designing equipment to go round the world, and they weren't aware of a basic requirement of electronics engineering for their own country? I don't even live in the UK and I'm aware. Does that speak volumes about them or what?

Speaking of rack mountable, go look at the picture of their final design for their systems on their website. It shows a 1U design. Then look at their case design in their forum, it looks like an ATX case. Totally not the same design. In fact, with them placing PCIE connectors on the outside of the box/edge, it sounds like they're using a KNC design, go look at the Jupiters from lastyear. That's how the Viper case design looks.

They're literally piecing this together as they go along, flying by the seat of their chair. There was no long term design, and if there was they had no idea what they were doing.


I'm going off of what Fiaz said lastnight (6/24) in one of the updates / questions part of their forum. They took out the comptroller (the device you could ssh into). Another person on their forum asked how it would be controlled, and it was mentioned that it would likely be connected to a computer. He mentioned that the webgui was coming back. I think I'm even being confused as to what they're including and excluding at this point, because they took the webgui out awhile back.

I would hope the guys at AT set out with good intentions and that the mistakes made along the way were just that and due to being in a new field.
The wording of the contract is worrying but unfortunately it is a tried and true method, but still not right.

Now ALL the posts of Fiaz have been deleted and my normal "in the middle" outlook has shifted. They have to really have a unit before they see my money, or something that gives me the confidence to send it to them. And even then, LTC is not doing well, so this is a bit deeper now. Still, no announcement that I have seen regarding the posts being deleted and the AT forum is awfully quite, so I wonder about posts being deleted there as well.

Regarding the rack mountable - I think we have to thank the guys here, I forget who first mentioned the CE certification, but that appears to be the reason for the change (PS on outside). What is odd and conflicting is that AT says we are not consumers but are businesses. Well, if that is true, should they have rack mountable (easily) units? I am not sure on the units going in racks now. Not an issue with me, or even most here I would think, but a bit ironic.

Not true about connecting them to a computer, you don't need to. You will be able to SSH in to the units as far as I understand. They took it off the table and then put it back on (minus some other bells and whistles), so I think you are talking about that first announcement (I hope). I don't feel like going through the Raspberry Pi again, was fun at first but I want things simpler, like I agreed to here.

Again, the next 2 weeks or so are going to be huge. If this were the early days of mining gear most would not be as alarmed, but since problems have abounded people are being more careful with their money.

IAS

If this is true then you are paying for something which is significantly different from what was advertised.

Watch out for the next news update... build your own miners.... lol.

If you read their last update once more you can find that, the statement self says the shipment will only start on 31July.

In browsing the official AT forums (looking for perhaps good news which has been missed), instead I noticed that it's been mentioned this week that the units will no longer be standalone. Now, I might've missed that in an update, but isn't that kindof defeating the majority of the original design?

They were supposed to be rack mountable, or stackable however you want, simply provide a power cable and your mining details. Totally self sufficient, including wifi or ethernet. Now they're not only wired but there's no central comptroller. You'll have to connect them to a computer or another similar device. So they're acting like really large gridseed / blade units basically.

I half expect to hear they'll be shipping soon, but that you'll need your own reflow oven to put them together. Projected shipping date is no later than 31 July.

All posts deleted? Jeez, what's that going to mean?

If they're truely legit, it's a really weird decision to delete all your posts isn't it?  Fiaz probably made some appointments which aren't going to be real or something, I can't think about other reasons why all his posts are deleted.  Or the mods did, but I don't think they've any incentive to do that. (Or a mod must feel like he's scammed or something, but that won't be professional).

Nevertheless, I don't think we'll receive an answer from Alpha-T. Atleast not here. Let's hope not all those $ are gone..

All posts deleted... Oh dear that doesn't bode well for the future of Alpha or its Vipers.... I seem to remember them shouting from the rafters and being proud to be open and transparent. Now all that has happened is that they have been backed into a corner, retreated and gone to ground in their own forums where they are king of the hill and can ban anyone for saying anything other than what they like to hear.

Dark days are looming.

Does anyone hang around the Alpha forums, whats the word on the street ? I've been banned three times for asking the same question so can't be arsed to try another account !

Careful now, Red Star Mining could accuse you of spreading unwarranted FUD.

Good man. I wish you luck.
Just so you know asics are not covered by those items so you are fine. Anyone else in who has requested a refund and been fobbed off by Alpha should also contact the CAB. This will force Alpha to comply with UK consumer law, refund their customers or face potential prosecution.

I got a reply form consumer advice and heres the response I got about distance selling regulations.

"We understand from your email that you have cancelled an order and the trader has only partially refunded you.



I would first like to clarify that the role of the Citizen Advice consumer service is to provide consumers in the UK with a telephone and online service offering information and advice on consumer issues.  We work in partnership with Local Authority Trading Standards Services.

 

Your rights and obligations:

 

Under the law of the United Kingdom, any terms and conditions provided by the trader are separate to your rights under the Distance Selling Regulations. However, they are legally binding for both parties. If they offer you certain rights then you can request that the trader honours these rights otherwise you will hold them in breach of contract. On this basis you can request that they either honour the agreement otherwise you will pursue them for a reasonable level of compensation.

 

Any supporting evidence you have to show that the trader has breached the contract is going to be useful and you should present this to the trader when making your complaint.

 

I will now explain your rights in relation to the Distance Selling Regulations. Please note that these regulations have since been replaced, but will still apply to your contract. Prior to 13/06/2014 when you enter into a contract with a trader by means of a distance communication (telephone, internet, mail order etc.) you will have cancellation rights under the Distance Selling Regulations. Please note that the following types of transactions are not covered by these regulations meaning that you cannot cancel once you have placed your order.

 

•Items liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;

•CDs, DVDs or software that has had the plastic seal or cover removed;

•Items that are ordered to meet a customer’s specification, such as a made to measure item of clothing;

•Financial transactions (these are covered by the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations);

•Auctions, including TV auctions and on-line auctions;

•Business to business transactions;

•Items sold from a private individual not acting in the capacity of a business

•Purchases that have resulted from face to face contact.

•for the supply of newspapers, periodicals or magazines

•Items sold from a private individual not acting in the capacity of a business plus, contracts for the provision of accommodation, transport, catering or leisure services, where the supplier undertakes, when the contract is concluded, to provide these services on a specific date or within a specific period.

 

When this period ends depends on when the trader provides written information (in print or by email) confirming details of the order and your cancellation rights -

 

• If the trader sends the written information before they send the goods or enclosed with the goods – the cancellation period ends 7 working days from the day after the goods are received;

 

• If the trader sends the written information after the goods but within 3 months - the cancellation period ends 7 working days from the day after the written information is received;

 

• If the trader sends the written information over 3 months after the goods, or not at all – the cancellation period ends 3 months and 7 working days from the day after the goods are received.

 

If you cancel you may ask for a full refund including any delivery charges. The trader must provide this refund within 30 days.

 

If applicable, the trader may ask you to return the goods and/ or pay the return costs but can only do so if it was made clear in the written information.  If the written information does not specify that you are responsible for returning the goods, you may expect the trader to collect the goods; if it does not specify you are responsible for the cost of return then the trader must bear this cost.  Until the goods are returned to (or collected by) the trader, you have a ‘duty of care’ over the goods so it is important not to use the goods or do anything else which may damage them as this may mean the trader is not obliged to provide a full refund.

 

To cancel you must inform the trader either by letter, email or fax and it must be sent before the end of the cancellation period.  We would advise to include details (for example any order reference number) to help the trader match your cancellation request to their records.

 

Your next step:

 

If you want to pursue a civil claim and are presently based in Canada then you may want to ask a friend, relative or colleague based in the UK to pursue this on your behalf. To do this the person should write to the trader.  The letter should outline any relevant events regarding this issue and make it clear what you expect from the trader and why.  It should also give the trader a reasonable time to resolve the matter.  You should send the letter by recorded delivery which means that the trader has to sign for it. You will then have proof that it’s been received. You should also keep a copy of the letter. Template letters are available on our website. While there isn’t an appropriate template, you may use them as guidance for writing a letter of complaint.

 

You may also wish to contact your local equivalent of our service as they may be able to offer additional practical and legal advice; particularly with regards to your payment method.

 

Criminal offence:

 

I would like to confirm that attempting to restrict a person’s rights in law is a potential criminal offence.

 

What we’ll do:

 

We are going to report the matter to Trading Standards. While this may not help to resolve your dispute, it gives Trading Standards valuable information about how the trader operates. Someone from Trading Standards may contact you if they require further information.

 

If you require any further advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact the Citizens Advice consumer service by return email or by calling 03454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.

 

Thank you for your enquiry."



So now the question is does an asic fall under any of those transactions listed?

That is super dodgy. Glad I didn't pay the balance on my Viper-50.

No. What we are saying is that they have posted conflicting statements regarding this. But in their last update they stated  they have enough money to finish production.

"We will be producing as many units as ordered without waiting for card customers to pay thus if you have not yet paid your order will still be manufactured regardless"

If we are to take them at their word, there is no reason for you to pay now. It makes more sense to wait until they have a working test unit, which should be in a couple of weeks if they are on schedule. You can then pay the balance by CC if you still wish to proceed, without taking unnecessary risks.

Yeah, myself and others told the person to stop posting such rubbish if it's unfounded and to just go to authorities if they wanted to talk that way. It was within the first few pages of the thread.


Some folks are reading it that way. Fiaz stated last week (Thursday?) an official company update, a "big" one, was coming Monday. Which has now come and gone. This is a pattern for them, most of their "we will have an update" comments never provided updates. With their removal of his commentary on web forums, and their "we can't be held liable even if we cause the issue" clause, it appears they're preparing for a fallout.

It's not to say they can't or won't ship a product, but there's so many caution and redflags coming out this situation that it's becoming white noise.

So in a nutshell, what i can gather is the company is saying in not so many words that they need you guys to pay up so they can finnish building the miners..

So to me that says if you don't pay up then be prepared to get miners really late and or not at all; losing your deposit. I would just pay up or get out either way its you that is delaying either thing happening here and not AT.